Country Radio Consultant: “If you want to make ratings in country radio, take females out.” (aka SaladGate)
The continued, systematic, elongated, and deep-rooted dilemma of a lack of female representation on country radio is not just an aesthetic problem or social issue, it is a moral one.
This isn’t about insisting radio programmers play more females until country radio comes more into line with the male/female ratio of the human population, it’s about making sure that females are being given an equal opportunity as their male counterparts to be heard. We’re not talking about 2 to 1 ratios favoring men, we’re talking about only 1 or 2 female artists getting played per hour compared to 8 to 12 men. We’re talking about historic anomalies being registered on country music charts from the format’s inability to represent existing female talent and break new female talent. This isn’t about gerrymandering country radio to make sure more women are included, this is about making sure women aren’t being purposefully excluded, which according to radio consultant Keith Hill (known as the “World’s Leading Authority on Music Scheduling”), they should be.
In an interview posted with Keith Hill on Tuesday (5-26) in Country Aircheck, the industry consultant not only advised country radio not to play female artists, and certainly not to play them back to back, but had the audacity to compare them to the “tomatoes” of the country music salad in a quote that smacked of Blake Shelton’s “Old Farts and Jackasses” or Gary Overton’s “If you’re not on radio, you don’t exist” quotes in the ripeness for public backlash on the insensitivity Richter scale.
“If you want to make ratings in country radio, take females out,” Keith Hill said point blank in the interview.
So let’s just appreciate the gravity of this one statement. This is a guy who is dubbed the “World’s Leading Authority on Music Scheduling” telling the country radio industry to eliminate females from the format if they want better ratings, and doing so in the genre’s leading radio trade periodical. Even if you think the concern about female artists on radio is overblown, clearly you can see why a statement like this would make you concerned for females in the future. Forget trying to solve the country radio female dilemma, Keith Hill is telling radio professionals to actively go the other direction if they want people to listen.
Then Keith Hill continues, “The reason is mainstream country radio generates more quarter hours from female listeners at the rate of 70 to 75%, and women like male artists.”
In other words, Keith Hill is saying country radio programmers should take out female artists in their rotations because three out of four listeners of country radio are female themselves, and they prefer listening to male artists according to his data. “I’m basing that not only on music tests from over the years, but more than 300 client radio stations. The expectation is we’re principally a male format with a smaller female component,” Hill says.
Man, the scandalous quotes from this guy just keep on coming, and we haven’t even come to the “tomato” quotes which are at SaladGate’s core. But taking Hill at his word that his data tells him that despite the majority of country listeners being women, those women want to listen more to male artists, Keith hill says the “expectation” is that country music is “principally a male format.” What does that mean? That means that systematically, country radio professionals should look at country music as a genre that is for males artists primarily, and that females play a secondary, subordinate role, not as the way the listener data numbers might fall on an equal playing field, but as an “expectation” industry wide before we even see this data.
This is the thing about these Keith Hill comments: Just like Sony CEO Gary Overton’s “you don’t exist” radio comments from earlier in 2015, they’re completely based in truth … from Keith Hill’s perspective. We’ve been saying for years that country radio does not give equal consideration to a song from a female artist, and here Keith Hill is not only admitting it, but setting up the “expectation” of country music as a male-dominated genre, which historically it has never been seen as from any other perspective that I’ve ever seen in the 8+ years of covering this genre.
Oh but it gets even better, if you can believe it.
“I’ve got about 40 music databases in front of me and the percentage of females in the one with the most is 19%.,” Keith Hill says. That means that the greatest percentage of female representation you can expect from the most female-centric database in Keith Hill’s 40 database sample isn’t just below half, or even below a third or even a quarter. The rosiest outlook for women out of 40 databases has women being played less than one time out of every five times a male artist is played. Wowser.
Can it get even worse for country music’s women? Sure it can. I haven’t even iterated the worst quote of the lot, when Keith Hill compared women in country to a certain edible fruit.
“Trust me, I play great female records and we’ve got some right now; they’re just not the lettuce in our salad. The lettuce is Luke Bryan and Blake Shelton, Keith Urban and artists like that. The tomatoes of the salad are the females.”
Yes, make all your tomato and salad jokes here, but this is a very serious matter.
For the sake of argument, let’s just give Keith Hill the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the data that he says conclusively proves that country listeners don’t want to hear female acts, even though Windmills Country and others have refuted these claims with their own data in the past. What I don’t understand is why Keith Hill isn’t consulting the industry on how to solve the genre’s disconnect with female artists in an attempt to broaden the appeal of the genre, and raise the availability of lucrative talent by including both sexes as opposed to excluding one?
What does the sex of an artist have to do with anything? If country radio was truly waking up every morning and tasking themselves with the charge of trying to find the best songs to serve to their audience, regardless of sex, or even the name of the artist, then this would seem like the best outcome for everyone. The lack of one hit wonders in not just country music, but popular American music in general, is very telling about how the radio industry is failing the public by following preconceived notions based on metadata, as opposed to looking for the best songs that will resonate effectively with the public at a given time.
Look, saying Keith Hill is the problem is putting the cart before the horse. He’s a data nerd, and the data is telling him country fans don’t want females. But by the time radio is receiving female singles, the fix is already in. The problem is with labels and artists selecting singles to serve to country radio.
As Keith Hill’s comments were tossing SaladGate into into a fevered pitch, I was in the last moments of finishing up a review for a Miranda Lambert song called “Roots & Wings.” This is a song that instead of being released to radio, was released through a Ram trucks commercial. We have seen other excellent female songs that could be big hits on radio and resonate with female listeners not even see the light of day in the format. Brandy Clark’s “Stripes,” and Kacey Musgraves “The Trailer Song” for example. These songs were never even given a chance on radio. Instead we get Kelsi Ballerini screeching in a pop song, and Raelynn cooing in a Barbie Doll tune. It’s not that females don’t want to hear these songs, nobody does, and that dirties the female data.
But as for the “expectation” of the country music format being one that’s dominated by males? That is the be all, end all dangerous statement for the cementing of systematical sexism throughout the country format for not just now, but for the foreseeable future. That is the dangerous red line crossed in the “females in the country format” debate.
Nobody is asking for radio quotas, or even 50/50 representation, or even 2 to 1. How about just judging each song on its own merits, regardless of the sex of the artist? And how about the industry really taking a self-reflective look and trying to solve this problem from the inside out, instead of just presenting window dressing solutions with its “Women of the Future” functions and other such nonsense that seem to relegate women as artists with special needs. Look at the rosters of country music’s major labels. There may be a few more males on them, but it’s not even close to 5 to 1. Beyond the moral obligations, there is a financial incentive for the country music industry to solve this issue.
If you ask me, if there was one way to solve the quality problems country music is experiencing at the moment, it would simply be to play more female country artists.
But these aren’t just “female country artists,” as if they are a gaggle of nameless, faceless data points to be compared to tomatoes. These are mothers, sisters, and daughters. These are the individuals who are attempting to lead country music out of the dark ages into a new era when country music can be for everyone, not just those who fit into a target demographic. And if we are inclusive of female artists, maybe country music can be something that inspires people again, instead of just entertaining them. The women of country music are trying to lead, while many of the men are attempting to follow. So let’s follow the women, and leave the salad talk for The Food Network.
Jonathan Perrault
May 27, 2015 @ 9:30 am
What a sexist I bet he has a butt buddy
Janice Brooks
May 27, 2015 @ 9:49 am
Wonder what he would have thought back in 1980 when the females did dominate? I think he would be happy in the late 1940’s before Kitty Wells.
Stephen
May 27, 2015 @ 9:58 am
I just don’t ‘get’ this. Miranda, Carrie and Taylor are as big as any of the biggest male stars, such as Luke, Jason and Blake.
Female fans are who drive the success of Taylor, Carrie and Miranda.
This just confuses me.
Enjoy Every Sandwich
May 27, 2015 @ 10:07 am
Likewise, I’m puzzled as to which women they’re talking to. When I go to concerts for female artists there are always women in the audience.
Trigger
May 27, 2015 @ 12:02 pm
I don’t think that’s entirely true Stephen. First off, Taylor Swift is no longer country, and that is one of the main drivers of the current female vacuum. Carrie Underwood hasn’t released an album in over three years, and hasn’t toured for two. Miranda Lambert is sometimes forced to go out as an opener for artists like Luke or Jason, or co-headline with Dierks Bentley. This isn’t a knock on any of these women whatsoever, but without question the footprint of male artists at the moment is significantly greater than it is for female artists. It’s a crisis.
Stephen
May 27, 2015 @ 12:51 pm
Damn, Trigger. Now that you put it that way, that sucks.
For kicks, when I leave work today and get settled in at home, I’m going to count how many female artists are on the official CMA Fest bill.
TexasVet
May 27, 2015 @ 1:18 pm
Miranda is no longer “Automatic” on the BB Airplay Chart. Her last two singles “Something Bad” & “Little Red Wagon” topped out at #7 and #16 while Carrie’s two releases from her greatest hits album topped out at #3 for SITW & #5 for LTG but it’s still rising.
TheCheapSeats
May 27, 2015 @ 6:29 pm
Yeah, but those are just bad songs.
TexasVet
May 28, 2015 @ 12:55 pm
Yes but the point is that every song by Blake, Luke & FGL are JUST BAD but they all fly up the chart to #1.
liz
May 28, 2015 @ 3:51 pm
Even if the songs weren’t the best- they still sold. ITunes sales and 15 million views on one video and 30million views on the other says someone likes them. Radio said if they sold they would get spins….what happened?
CaseyK.
May 27, 2015 @ 6:53 pm
Stephen, you will find that there are only two individual female acts playing on the LP Field stage…Wynona and the recently added Carrie Underwood. Otherwise it is The Band Perry, Lady A, Little Big Town…I think that Maddie & Tae will have a small appearance. Miranda is not appearing this year. Carrie was just added this past Tuesday. I’m disappointed that neither Brandy Clark nor Kacey Musgraves will make an appearance this year at all. Neither will Sara Evans or Martina. Talk about a male dominated festival!! Oh wait….Tanya Tucker, Ashely Monroe and Kellie Pickler will be on the Riverfront Stage!
Mike Olson
November 16, 2018 @ 4:03 pm
Yeah your so right. Tell me why don’t we hear them on the Radio. Look at Shania and her come back. They refuse to play her. She sells albums by the millions and sells out her concerts. What more can you ask from a star.
Enjoy Every Sandwich
May 27, 2015 @ 10:06 am
Women as much as men like songs that they can relate to, that speak to their own experiences. As a man I find that while there are some songs that are very narrowly aimed at some specific perspective of one gender or the other, most are not. Everybody has had a broken heart. Everybody has loved somebody who wasn’t good for them. Everybody has had to say goodbye to somebody who’s been called up yonder. For cryin’ out loud, music is called “the universal language” for a reason!
lisa
May 27, 2015 @ 11:54 am
I definitely find myself relating to songs from the male perspective, all the time! Love songs, heartbreak songs… right the song that really gets me is Wade Bowen “Before These Walls Were Blue” – I know the song is from a father’s perspective – but I have a 9 month old baby boy, and just about every word describes how I feel. There are songs out there written by men and recorded by females, or vice versa, and sound just as right when sung by either with the switch of a few words (a couple songs written by Phil Vassar come to mind.) Country isn’t as gender-specific as they are trying to force it to be.
NPC
May 27, 2015 @ 10:08 am
Last weekend, we attended a wedding where modern pop/rap-style dance songs were being played. One of the more interesting observations is that, whenever a male artist would play (aside from slow dance songs or the Cha-Cha Slide), women were generally repelled from the dance floor. However, as soon as a female artist would play, women would swarm to dance to it. Take a look at who’s popular in pop music currently: Taylor Swift, Ariana Grande, Meghan Trainor, Katy Perry, and a slew of other female artists. Granted, you have a handful of male artists that tend to crop up periodically (Ed Sheeran, One Direction, Robin Thicke), but pop music is overwhelmingly female and is not hurting for an audience. Considering how badly modern country music wants to be pop/rap/EDM, you would think they would take a hint from other genres about the overwhelmingly positive reception that female artists receive.
Bear
May 27, 2015 @ 12:16 pm
Yes it is and this is reason I keep theorizing that the bros of country won’t just go pop. They are afraid of the competition. There is no competition in country music from females so Sam Hunt can swag with his EDM all he wants and rule the roost. If he went truly pop probably he’d be fall flat from the charts in a week or two.
Trigger
May 27, 2015 @ 12:24 pm
As bad of country stars Sam Hunt, Florida Georgia Line, and others are, they’re even worse pop stars. Pop stars like Meghan Trainor and Ed Sheeran would wipe the floor with them. They’re playing country because they couldn’t survive in pop. Think about what that says about country.
Nathan
May 27, 2015 @ 2:45 pm
I think you are spot on. Sam Hunt would be lucky to have his material covered in the pop genre. FGL wouldn’t exist in that world. I see progress in every genre of music except modern country. Very few highlights when I turn on the radio. The only way this genre will survive is for it to come back around to it’s roots. I just wonder if it can before it implodes.
Lorenzo
May 27, 2015 @ 10:10 am
this guy is an utter peice of ****. did he really f*****g say he wants Luke Bryan to be played (and hell I’m sure he would have also added jason aldean, fgl, Cole swindell, Thomas rhett etc)??? now I know why a lot of my favourite songs on country radio got killed. think of Pur my heart down by Sara Evans (peaked at #57) or Young in America by Danielle Bradbery (#49). think of Kacey Musgraves last three singles including her brand new one (#43, #34, #41). think of Lee Ann Womack, whose new music totally got ignored. This guy needs to go away and i’ll be glad to see him carrying his fucking lettuce with him.
ActivePuck
May 27, 2015 @ 10:25 am
I’m way too lazy to look this up but there were quite a bit of female artists getting regular airplay in the early 1990s when country was taking off and you know what? Most of them were great and I bought as many of their albums as I could. Some of my favorite songs ever are by women.
Fuck variety, let’s have everything be bros, metrobros and soon-to-be bros.
JF
May 27, 2015 @ 10:31 am
The radio business does not exist to promote music. At least not anymore. The radio business has one goal and one goal only — to sell advertising. The more listeners you have, the more money you can sell your ads for. And as a result, of course, the more money your company can make. If a female artist will draw listeners, she will be played. If not, she won’t. If paying 5 minute clips of cats meowing drew huge ratings, radio would be filled with it. Granted, that would be better than most modern country in my opinion.
Ratings equals dollars. It is really as simple as that. This guy is un-PC enough to come out and say it, and in a very clumsy way. But I don’t think that this represents some agenda to bar women from country music.
Trigger
May 27, 2015 @ 12:08 pm
This is the quote that I found most disturbing:
“The expectation is we”™re principally a male format with a smaller female component”
This has nothing to do with data. If you’re “expecting” female artists to fail on country radio, then you’re preordaining it. Basically, it’s systematically implementing sexism.
But as I said in the article, I don’t blame this consultant. By the time the numbers arrive on his desk, the fix is already in. This is cart before the horse. The problem is not Keith Hill. It’s what happens before him. His observations and opinions just institutionalize the problem at every point of the radio chain.
Bear
May 27, 2015 @ 12:20 pm
Funny I saw a talk about an experiment they did where the basically got hundreds of people to PAY to see the very cat videos they could watch on-line for free. This cat video festival went on tour in the US and SOLD OUT in large concert venues! Why? Because people like community and a shared experience and if you are being bullheaded and leaving out or not representing half the population then they won’t be able to share in the experience and will go somewhere else in the long run I think.
Also with the success of the cat video tour cats meowing on radio may not be far off.
dukes
May 27, 2015 @ 10:34 am
I think you should start a new “Douche of the Day” feature.
But this guy might get print daily in that case.
JC Eldredge
May 27, 2015 @ 10:41 am
“Instead we get Kelsi Ballerini screeching in a pop song, and Raelynn cooing in a Barbie Doll tune. It”™s not that females don”™t want to hear these songs, nobody does, and that dirties the female data.”
Yes, Yes and YES!!!!
I feel like, as a female, when I make that statement, I get the “you don’t support women” side eye.Give me the choice of a helium sucking, faux twang shrieking, only has a record deal because she looks good in daisy dukes, mess and Luke Bryan and I am going to pick Luke every time. Give me a choice of him and a female with some substance and talent that goes further than her bra cup and then we’ll talk. As for this pasty Hill clown, he opened up a can of tomatoes that he isn’t going to live down for a long time.
Bear
May 27, 2015 @ 12:26 pm
I also get side-eyed like I’m dudebro for not supporting females just because they are females. Put Lindi Ortega on the radio and I’ll cheer by Raelynn… nope, not happening.
Ugh poor Patsy Montana is rolling in here grave and Rose Maphis who is still living is helping her turn over. Lord only know WHAT Dale Evans, Kitty Wells, Willma Lee Cooper, and Dottie West (a notorious fighter against sexism in the music business) are doing. Yikes.
And it’s EVEN more appealing considering that female talent ABOUNDS in country music all over the place. Many featured right here! *Shakes head*
I hope somebody start a country station that plays only women and one male every three hours, I would just LOVE IT.
Anthony
May 27, 2015 @ 10:42 am
Thats a serious slap in the face to Kelsea to be grouped with Raelynn.
Kevin Davis
May 27, 2015 @ 2:51 pm
Not true, based on Kelsea’s current single — it is easily just as bad as RaeLynn.
Alex H
May 28, 2015 @ 4:16 pm
I’m still waiting for a song from RaeLynn that comes anywhere close to Secondhand Smoke by Kelsea.
Chris
May 31, 2015 @ 2:18 pm
Agreed, Kevin. Indeed, RaeLynn and Kelsea are both getting played on Radio Disney, which is about as non-country as one can get. When I first heard “Love Me Like You Mean It” it immediately struck meas the type of song that would fit better on Radio Disney than on “country” radio – it sounds like a second-rate Taylor Swift song that didn’t make the cut for her “1989” album.
It’s particularly disheartening, speaking of Taylor Swift, that both major country stations in Detroit have chosen to up their quotient of female representation by continuing to play new material from Ms. Swift. According to WYCD (the top-rated country station in the market), “Wildest Dreams” is country, and WDRQ (a Nash FM affiliate) still has “Shake It Off” in rotation during their local music hours (with the rap included – and there is a rap-less edit they could choose to play), not to mention they still play “We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together” and “I Knew You Were Trouble.” Better than the bros I guess, but not by much, and odd considering that both stations are playing more “Icon”-type music of late. (WDRQ actually has Nash Icon on its HD2 as well.) Playing Taylor Swift’s pop music is NOT the way to increase the quotient of female talent on country radio.
Fortunately I’m within listening range of Jackson, Michigan’s recently launched “Duke FM,” which plays a great variety of classics from the ’60s to the ’00s, with plenty of genuinely – or at least more country than RaeLynn, Lucy Hale or Kelsea Ballerini – female talent, and no sign of Sam Hunt’s EDM or Luke Bryan’s pelvis. As far as I’m concerned they are the only country station worth listening to around here.
Chris
May 31, 2015 @ 2:30 pm
Re: the WDRQ situation (adding this now because I’m past the edit deadline) – it’s not even like the KSCS in Dallas situation where they’ll play Andy Grammer, Ellie Goulding or OneRepublic and bookend it with a liner about playing everything that is “new” or “now.” Hearing “Shake It Off” followed by a moniker saying “country for life” is just wrong. Of course, Detroit is also a market where Kid Rock is now considered a “country icon.”
GregN
May 27, 2015 @ 10:42 am
Sigh.
Heyday
May 27, 2015 @ 11:18 am
Oddly enough, I’m not the least bit surprised by his comment. He’s looking at things solely from a business perspective. For all he cares, he could be talking about the widget industry. All he cares about are numbers, and all he uses to analyze the numbers are, well, other numbers.
There are those of us who like to believe — who desperately want to believe — that music is about more than just numbers. We’re not being naive. We want music from the soul, with soul. We want honesty, culture and art in our music. We don’t want music that is the product of some algorithm designed solely to make money. This guy just cares about the math and he might as well be making shoes or selling insurance or managing somebody’s investment portfolio.
Alex
May 28, 2015 @ 11:44 am
I can’t fault the guy, he seems like he’s telling it as it is with complete detachment from the music and artists. Does it seem insensitive? Yeah, but he’d probably be no good at his job if he wasn’t. Can’t blame Keith Hill for complex issues that he really has nothing to do with. Plain and simple, if female artists were as marketable as male artists, you’d hear them on the radio more often. The problem with country radio isn’t so much gender equality as it is music quality. If radio played artists based on talent instead of marketability, you’d probably hear a more equal balance of male and female artists. But that’s not how radio works.
one_time
May 27, 2015 @ 11:25 am
This is a numbers guy interprolating data and putting it into English. Sure, he certainly was not soft about the words that he used, but he is a math nerd (and obviously an insensitive one). We, as a super-soft society, have a problem with the facts that we do not like. When the facts are not in our favor it must be for racist or sexist reasons. If the women of country music don’t like it, put out better music.
Now, I happen to absolutely love a lot female country artists, but they won’t be played on country radio anyway. Their songs won’t be used for a truck commercial. They write deep and meaningful music. They have never been on American Idol. I have worked in the Texas/Red Dirt music world for several years and the male-to-female-ratio of artists that are out touring the barrooms are 99 men to 1 woman.
I can’t blame this guy for explaining the data that he has collected anymore than I can the Allstate commercial that points out that women are better drivers than men, or that Native Americans are 17% more likely to get behind the wheel while intoxicated than Caucasians. That’s not racist or sexist; those are facts determined from scientific studies. I’ll keep buying records from great songwriters regardless of sex, and country music radio can kiss my ass because they don’t play a damn thing I want to hear anyway.
Trigger
May 27, 2015 @ 12:20 pm
Keith Hill said that country music, as a genre, is a male genre with women playing a subordinate role. I understand that he said this in the context of radio numbers, but that assertion presents a historical perspective on country music that is undeniably refutable by numbers, and extremely short-sighted.
Again, I don’t blame Keith Hill. By the time he gets the numbers, the damage against female artists has already been done by labels, A&R people, and radio station program directors.
But if you want to talk about numbers and ratings, how about citing that ratings are in the midst of a multi-year slide for country music. Despite country radio systematically playing less women to boost ratings, those ratings continue to fall. Why? Because they are creating a genre that is appealing to fewer and fewer people by hyper focusing on a target demographic.
Here’s the most important numbers:
https://savingcountrymusic.com/country-in-a-tailspin-with-key-demographic-while-the-mono-genre-comes-to-radio
pgwenz
May 28, 2015 @ 10:17 am
Could not have said any of that any better myself, Trig.
Jared S
May 27, 2015 @ 12:42 pm
3 things:
1. Just because you’re a “numbers guy” or a “nerd” (I consider myself both of those things), that does not excuse you from expressing yourself carefully and properly. Your choice of words matters.
2. Refusing to play female country artists serves only to perpetuate the issue. Many young women currently listening to country radio probably assume that making country music is not for them, because females don’t get any air time.
3. His numbers may currently bear out that country is a male-dominated genre, and that people want to listen mostly to male voices. But historically that is not the case. Tastes and trends change, and Nashville seems to be completely unprepared for the day when this trend dies out.
one_time
May 27, 2015 @ 2:08 pm
I think this is a case of “don’t shoot the messenger,” much like Trigger stated. I agree with your points, but I vehemently disagree with political correctness. Call a spade a spade and let the chips fall where they may. In the age of feminism, women don’t want to be treated like inconsolable children. This site has provided plenty of data points and testament that show country music radio is in a glorious “tailspin.” They are reinforcing failure by continuing to play substance free music about trucks, girls, and getting drunk. In the 90s it was about losing your girl, or dog, and getting drunk. For the most part, country music radio has sucked for a long time. Today there isn’t a George Strait or Garth Brooks (not the reinvented Garth) to keep the ratings up. This shift to sucky country music all started with a woman after all (Shania Twain), and I blame most of this on her!
There is an underground swell taking place. Barrooms are packed with great artists and their records are selling without being on the radio (Jason Isbell, Sturgill Simpson, Aaron Watson, et al). Those same people who are listening to the guys grinding out a career on the road are still buying music from Loretta Lynn, Kitty Wells, Patsy Cline, Emmylou Harris, etc. I buy Amanda Shires, Sunny Sweeny, Kacey Musgraves, and beyond that roots rockers Alabama Shakes (whom I’m absolutely in love with). I’ll be buying/downloading some Annie Oakley when I get off today. Women make my playlist. I also buy damn near every album that I can from Texas and Red Dirt artists.
F country music radio. We are the people who define what we deem as good country music, and just because Nashville isn’t listening, doesn’t mean it should matter. I would imagine that hardly anyone who frequents this site listens to country radio. If I listen, it’s to 107.1, The Armadillo and Craig Vaughn who is busting his ass to feature and promote nothing but Texas artists 24/7. Most of the time I have my Bluetooth connected to my car radio and I am listening to music that doesn’t suck.
Liza
May 27, 2015 @ 8:31 pm
I think the lack of political correctness is important. Comments like these have to make the suits sit up. This is money to them.
Annie Oakley
May 27, 2015 @ 11:32 am
The comment by one_time makes an excellent point about the hard, cold facts. If you’re not in music, especially as a female, this isn’t something you’d think about. But take a look at the record labels, particularly in country, roots, Americana, etc. and look at the ratio of male to female artists. It’s not for lack of females writing and playing good music. It’s a systemic thing in the genre.
Chance Austin
May 27, 2015 @ 2:17 pm
Annie- you are certainly right when it comes to Americana- but folks like Iris Dement- Kasey Musgraves, Zoe Muth and Eillen Jewell are core artists in my mix- If I find myself playing a lot of male artists in a row I’ll put on a bunch of females on for a while- The Demo 40-65 Left Leaning College Educated M-F actually like the female artists. So here is today’s show! http://www.AmericanaMediaPro.com/shows/52715wed.mp3
Jon
May 27, 2015 @ 11:42 am
I don’t think the average radio listener cares about “the best songs” but simply wants someone to play catchy, easily consumable sounds they can have in the background. I’m pretty sure it was Dave Grohl who said the success of Gangnam style proved the public doesn’t listen to lyrics. I quit listening to the radio ages ago because I found not only were they unimaginative in their programming but also behind the times. I remember the last straw was when a station played a “you heard it here first” spin of a song that had been released months ago. I’m not snobbing on the music played on radio; when “We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together” first came out I listened to it because that’s one damn well composed chorus. But I didn’t discover it via radio. Music lovers have found other ways to keep up to date on what is going on in music and artists need to keep up with these in order to get their music out to people who want to listen to it. In summation, fuck radio.
Eric
May 27, 2015 @ 1:35 pm
Of course pop music fans do not listen to lyrics. When I listen to pop or rock, I pay much more attention to the music than the words. Country music, however, has always been a lyric-centered genre.
Jon
May 27, 2015 @ 2:12 pm
I agree country music is historically a lyric based genre, but we’re talking about radio here. The average person listening to the radio, be it country or otherwise, isn’t as invested in the lyrics as people who read blogs and dig into the catalogue of their favourite artist’s opening act. Can you read the lyrics of recent country radio hits and honestly tell me that’s why they’re hits?
Albert
May 28, 2015 @ 8:19 am
‘Can you read the lyrics of recent country radio hits and honestly tell me that”™s why they”™re hits? ‘
Exactly !….. Its NOT THE LYRIC ..its the guy singing it ( or barely singing it as the case seems to be these days ) . My theory is that being a country ” star’ today is a job nobody wants . Hence it attracts people who don’t have an option work-wise . Like a Chippendale dancer or the lot boy at the car dealership keeping things shiny -looking .
Bear
May 27, 2015 @ 12:10 pm
So I see country radio is trying match the female presence on “classic rock” radio. Nice job you jerks!
Gena R.
May 27, 2015 @ 1:13 pm
And this is why I primarily listen to CDs rather than radio (except for specific programs like “Undercurrents” and “The World Cafe” — Lee Ann Womack was on the latter last night, and it was great).
Josh
May 27, 2015 @ 4:08 pm
For those who didn’t use Google translate on what the comment above me says, it’s “want to have sex?” Go away French creep.
Robert Choate
May 28, 2015 @ 2:57 am
I think josh has new neighbors.
I’m not French.
Jack Williams
May 28, 2015 @ 6:31 am
I highly doubt he’s actually French. Just a creepy play acting troll is my guess.
Symphonic Metal
May 27, 2015 @ 7:11 pm
The lack of females is not unique to Country music as so many would like to believe. Compared to Rock and Metal, Country music is female friendly!!!! Go figure.. Who would have ever thought there would be more prominent female rockers in the 70s and 80s then there are today? I can’t think of a female rocker who would be well known these days.
And this phenomenon is not just something for the United States either. Here is an article from 2007 talking about the lack of females in the UK metal scene. I tripped over this old article yesterday because in the last year I have become a big fan of two of the groups talked about in this article.
http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2007/nov/22/captionherethepop
So as you can see this problem for female artists is not unique to Country music or the United States.
Trigger
May 27, 2015 @ 7:41 pm
But in pop music there’s women all over the place, so I think it balances out a little bit. And there’s never really been women in heavy metal. In country music, there’s a long rich history of towering female performers that are absolutely essential to the format. To assert that women are just window dressing for a predominately male format is completely asinine.
Symphonic Metal
May 27, 2015 @ 8:48 pm
While heavy metal may not have much of a history (until recently) with female artists, hard rock certainly does and that was the scene the blogger from the UK was talking about. I used the term “metal” as that is where most of the groups he was speaking about get categorized. And the following excerpt about Amy Lee is quite shocking…………to me even more shocking than anything this radio consultant said………….
Still, it is a little bit weird when you discover just how resistant the Anglo-Saxon music industry remains to the idea of a female rock vocal. The only band who fit the above formula who have achieved major success in the UK charts is America’s Evanescence, with their huge 2003 hit Bring Me To Life. However a couple of years later Evanescence frontwoman Amy Lee revealed that her record label had refused to release it unless she agreed to make it a duet.
“It was presented to me as, ‘You’re a girl singing in a rock band, there’s nothing else like that out there, nobody’s going to listen to you,” she claimed. “‘You need a guy to come in and sing back-up for it to be successful.'”
And that was said by a label person in 2003 from a genre that is supposed to be more “enlightened” than Country. And to think decades earlier women were quite prominent in the hard rock scene.
My larger point is that women have even bigger struggles in other genres. While women may not have the extensive history in these genres as they do in Country, they have played a significant part in them over the years.
I will say this for today’s women of rock and metal is they don’t piss and moan and cry and whine and claim they are oppressed like the women in Country do. And these women are VERY intelligent, very well spoken and very classy. These women just keep their nose to the grindstone and get down to making some of the most incredible music I have ever heard.. The victim mentality does not seem to exist with these women like it does with those in Country music. They seem to actually live “women empowerment” while female Country artists seem to sing about it while at the same time playing the victim card. I’ll go with the former every time.
To be quite frank, today’s women in Country music could learn much from their counterparts in rock and metal INCLUDING a spirit of cooperation between them instead of this insane competition over music awards.
Eric
May 27, 2015 @ 9:22 pm
I don’t understand what you are talking about when you claim that female country artists have some type of “victim mentality” and are “whining” about being excluded from radio. The people who are complaining the most about this state of affairs are disillusioned country fans, not the struggling artists themselves.
Enjoy Every Sandwich
May 27, 2015 @ 1:15 pm
Some people are arguing that Hill is just presenting unpleasant but true facts. You’ve got to watch out when you’re interpreting statistics, though. How much confirmation bias does his assessment contain? How can he measure the impact that female artists will have on the bottom line if said artists are never played? Artists who are never played don’t exactly generate a lot of data!
And how does he know that there simply isn’t a missed opportunity here? Businesses that aren’t constantly seeking new ways to serve customers will sooner or later stagnate and sink. Developing female talent that can succeed might be well worth the effort.
Noah Eaton
May 27, 2015 @ 1:31 pm
The most tragic part in all of this is that, as asinine and appalling as Hill’s remarks are, countless radio surveys have consistently pointed to a sex bias when it comes to rating single releases.
Where females are more likely to rate male voices highly on average, in addition to artists of the same sex, males are much less likely to rate female voices highly. I’m typing on my Sansung as we speak and don’t have a specific link back on hand at the moment, but one survey released earlier this year springs to mind that revealed glaring disparities between the sexes regarding total “Passion” scores and affinity for any respective female artist, and total “Dislike” scores. For instance, where Carrie Underwood ‘ s latest single made the Top Ten among females, it didn’t even make the Top Twenty among males. But when it came to most males, there wasn’t any statistically significant variation between the sexes.
Also, radio research has, sadly, pointed to a “burnout” bias in that listeners of BOTH sexes have reported feeling burnout hearing female voices on radio compared to male voices. I don’t know the methodology used off the top of my head, but I wonder if it’s more a reflection of a specific type of song that the few established female artists drove into the ground that irritate listeners (perhaps revenge fantasy songs) more than anything.
At the end of the day, Hill’s remarks don’t help matters whstsoever, but the casual listening demographic is arguably most to blame for this impasse. They, in themselves, are reinforcing his notion.
Peter
May 27, 2015 @ 5:19 pm
I agree. Carrie Underwood along with other female country stars like Reba McEntire needs to move to pop and have pop radio play female country music like Miranda Lambert. I personally think female country acts like Trisha Yearwood needs to play their country music on pop, not country, pop. That’s why. So I have to agree with you. 😉
Noah Eaton
May 27, 2015 @ 7:10 pm
I concede my take is at odds with much of mainstream country/”country” radio’s chief demographics………..but the song itself is what’s of paramount importance and value, regardless of sex and gender.
Sure, I did have it up to here with revenge fantasy songs and angry cheating songs from the few female vocalists on mainstream airwaves, but it was a reflection of the songs’ lackluster qualities, not the sex of the entertainers. Just as I’ve had it up to here with the seedier, misogynistic leanings of bro-countey and metro-bro, but it’s not a reflection of the sex of the performers either but rather how asinine, toothless and degrading the songs are.
I am at a loss as to why many obsess with other qualifiers first, and then the song itself. Like all those Luke Bryan fans who listened to “Kick The Dust Up” and obviously are disappointed by it, but FORCE their warming up to it only BECAUSE it’s Luke Bryan and they think he’s sexy. Or Kacey Musgrave fans who behave as though she’s ENTITLED to mass airplay regardless of what she releases because her last album outsold most of the Bros.
Eric
May 27, 2015 @ 1:43 pm
What Keith Hill’s study does not account for is all of the audience that has abandoned country radio since its bro turn began. Obviously, with the current group of fans, there will be a selection bias since they are the ones who love the current paradigm of the male-dominated format.
Sam Jimenez
May 27, 2015 @ 1:47 pm
Money owes music a HUGE fucking apology.
Kale
May 27, 2015 @ 1:57 pm
How come Miranda wins all the awards when Carrie’s singles usually do better? Also, let’s remember for a minute the ridiculous Milestone Awards they gave out to the “legends.” Besides the fact that they aren’t the true legends, why didn’t Tim McGraw get it? He was always been more popular than Kenny Chesney, just like Carrie is more recognizable and usually more successful than Miranda. What really determines these things? Politics? Connections (cough, Blake, cough)?
liz
May 28, 2015 @ 4:13 pm
Are you kidding me? Miranda is the most awarded female in all categories. Her albums had been winning way before Blake started hosting. Blake has like 4 ACMs so no he isn’t using pull. Carrie has great voice but songwriting, albums, songs categories are were Miranda thrive with critics and fans. Don’t be jealous. Carrie is still looked at as a popstar, sorry.
Todd Gross
May 27, 2015 @ 1:59 pm
He’s right. And so wrong at the same time. What’s being put out there by women is the reason for the situation. IMHO Taylor Swift has LOWERED the bar for females and brought in a plethora of acts that quite frankly do not live up musically, vocally or otherwise to Loretta, Patsy, Martina, Carrie et al. Carrie is a fine example of a real singer, decent performer with songs one can sink their teeth into. The dravel of the singer / songwriter experience just DOES NOT produce a real crowd pleasing, energetic, vocally amazing female – and since the songwriters gravitate (logically) to the $$’s of bro country and male singers who have a 90% greater chance of making radio, when the talent goes to the almight buck.
Nuff Said.
Topher
May 27, 2015 @ 2:00 pm
After so many comments like this, it’s hard not to become completely apathetic towards. Granted, it’s not like I regularly listen to the radio anyways, but I still always hoped some good new artists/songs would get played. But alas, another nail in country radio’s coffin.
I think I’ll just go listen to some Whitney Rose now…
D
May 27, 2015 @ 2:12 pm
More Bro country for all !!!! EAT! eat it up, that shit sandwich. Keith isn’t really sure what the data says as he is so high from Rush Limbaugh’s narcotics.
Stephen
May 27, 2015 @ 3:05 pm
I swallowed my pride and spent exactly one hour this afternoon from 2:30-3:30CST listening nonstop to 98.9 WBAM in my city of Montgomery, Alabama. Blue Water Broadcasting owns this station. (We also have a Clear Channel Top 40 country station in Montgomery, WLWI, that I will experiment with maybe tonight.) I wrote down each song played over that hour on WBAM and the following is what they played, in order.
Zac Brown Band: “Keep Me In Mind”
Luke Bryan: “Games”
Sara Evans: “Suds in the Bucket”
Randy Houser: “Runnin’ Outta Moonlight”
Rascal Flatts: “Riot”
Tim McGraw: “Just to See You Smile”
Blake Shelton w/ Ashley Monroe: “Lonely Tonight”
Taylor Swift: “Our Song”
Lady Antebellum: “Hey Bartender” (Hillary Scott on lead vocals)
Jason Aldean w/ Kelly Clarkson: “Don’t You Wanna Stay”
Dierks Bentley: “Say You Do”
Florida Georgia Line: “Dirt”
Jake Owen: “Barefoot Blue Jean Night”
Kenny Chesney w/ Grace Potter: “Wild Child”
Trigger
May 27, 2015 @ 3:15 pm
2 out of 14, or 4 out of fourteen if you want to count Lady Antebellum that has a female member, and Kelly Clarkson’s duet with Aldean. That sounds about right. And two of those four women aren’t officially country. That’s a pretty fair cross section of country radio today.
Sam Jimenez
May 27, 2015 @ 5:54 pm
I never have, nor ever would listen to our local Portland country station, 98.7 The Bull – which is very appropriately named, but I just looked up the recent playlist: 6 women in the last 40 tracks played. 15%
Noah Eaton
May 27, 2015 @ 7:15 pm
99.5 The Wolf is hardly any better here, but at least they interpolate some hits from the 90s and early 00s into their playlists (though they played the exact same Toby Keith, Tim McGraw, Sara Evans, Alan Jackson and so forth songs on and on until I abandoned them myself.)
Noah Eaton
May 27, 2015 @ 7:18 pm
Me, I just customize my own playlists on SoundCloud and Pandora, add onto them based on recommendations Trigger offers and elsewhere, then research other talent via regional circuits and Pickathon.
Eric
May 27, 2015 @ 9:26 pm
That is a surprisingly good playlist by the standards of modern country radio. The Clear Channel songs will likely be much more bro-leaning and feature even less female representation.
One important note: the style of songs played varies significantly with time of day. If you want to do a controlled experiment, I would suggest tuning in to Clear Channel during the same time frame (2:30-3:30) tomorrow or on another weekday.
CAH
May 27, 2015 @ 3:37 pm
I had to look to see whether you had parody as one of the tags for this article.
CJ
May 27, 2015 @ 4:01 pm
More idiotic statements from this pig:
http://www.cmt.com/news/1754800/men-are-lettuce-women-are-tomatoes/
Any comments or reaction from the lettuce, er, men I mean? Or are they too comfortable with their status on radio to rock the boat?
Peter
May 27, 2015 @ 5:06 pm
Great idea, Keith Hill. I want a Carrie Underwood pop music because she is the voice of any genre and her music appeals to everyone, even pop listeners. I want to see Carrie Underwood on pop. She would be a perfect country star to make pop music. 🙂
Allison Steel
May 27, 2015 @ 5:31 pm
The only ones that can change this…FANS and smart music industry executives. Fans, we need you! BUY, please don’t share music. Sales mean everything to record labels….to any business. It’s simple, supply and demand. There are also a few smart businessmen in music who are future minded that can and will change this. Radio exposure = sales most times. The 90’s….women were a HUGE part of country music and made huge amounts of sales. Radio executives & labels will remember this one day, and I hope it’s one day soon. We’d sure LOVE to make it. I know we have what it takes. We just hope there will be room for us. -Allison, http://www.2SteelGirls.com
Jay
May 27, 2015 @ 5:39 pm
His salad analogy makes sense, lettuce is nothing but overabundant bland filler while all the flavor is smothered and left to just two small cherry tomatoes on top, kinda like the talent and substance of men versus women in music these days.
Symphonic Metal
May 27, 2015 @ 6:49 pm
What Allison said.
The only ones who can change this is the fans and where they spend their money. Too many fans whine and cry that they “want this” and they “want that”. But when push comes to shove, they end up spending their money on acts that they “claim” to hate. I was a member of a major female music star’s message board (who shall remain unnamed) for a decade and I witnessed this time after time. And it also seems that many fans of female artists are absolutely vicious towards other female artists who achieve success as they view them as competition. I fought against that “bullish” for years and it did no good.
I think a lot of fans need to check their own buying habits and see just who they have been spending their money on. If you truly want more females played you need to put your money where your mouths are. Don’t expect others to buy it if you don’t.
BTW, I just listened to “Mad Black Magic” and it was very good. Much better than most of what I heard when I was into country music. Krystal very much has a Lzzy Hale vibe/sound going on in her vocals and I mean that as a major compliment! And much like Lzzy’s band Halestorm your band looks like it is a family affair also.. I very much favor the heavy guitar in my music and your group seems to fit the bill. I shall be checking out your group further! Good luck in your career and you may have garnered a new fan with me.
ellie
May 28, 2015 @ 10:31 am
I agree about the fans of female artists. They will attack other female artist just because they might be passing them up. Taylor Swift’s fans attack Carrie Underwood all the time if there is an article about her. Female fans need to realize they can like more than one female artist.
John Wayne Twitty
May 27, 2015 @ 6:06 pm
They lost my ratings 100% when they stopped putting country music on the radio.
And to be frank, the adult aged males on the radio aren’t men.
Blackwater
May 27, 2015 @ 6:18 pm
I won’t regurgitate sentiment from other people, but regarding his “databases” – how does he come to the conclusion that women are tomatoes? Does he have proof males purchase albums, merch, and go to concerts on a 5:1 scale compared to women? It sounds like to me he’s just a cut throat businessman who doesn’t see male or female country artists. He sees two products, one in higher demand than the other.
RD
May 27, 2015 @ 6:19 pm
I don’t see how this is sexist. Corporations are just big piles of money that seek to get bigger. If you sell Corvettes, you target males with money. If you sell expensive purses, you seek women with money. I really don’t care about the “business” of music. I just listen to the music I like.
Liza
May 28, 2015 @ 4:36 pm
If I were an advertiser, I’d pay attention to this.
pete marshall
May 27, 2015 @ 6:44 pm
WHY!!!!!! What’s wrong with females in country music.
Michael
May 27, 2015 @ 7:35 pm
Anyone with any sense at all knows country music would not be where it is today if there were no women singers . is this guy a part of the (our gang) aka little rascals show . member of the he man woman haters club?
Personally I thing he needs for the music industry to set him straight . or at least see what he is on!!!#
the pistolero
May 27, 2015 @ 8:02 pm
Several people have sort of alluded to this, but…
While what Keith Hill said was rather offensive, I’m having a rather difficult time getting all lathered up about it. Does it suck that more females aren’t on country radio? In a way you could say that, but ask yourself this:
Do we really want more of the likes of Kelsea Ballerini, RaeLynn, and Haley Georgia on the radio? And more songs like “Somethin’ Bad” and “Little Red Wagon”?
Because in practice. that’s what more females on the radio would mean. Call it trading one pile of shit for another. I mean, sure, we could all think of great music that deserves airplay from the likes of Kellie Pickler, Tami Neilson and so on, but if they were going to play that they’d play Sturgill Simpson, Aaron Watson, and William Clark Green. Put another way, the lack of a female viewpoint is a symptom. The dearth of meaningful country-sounding music from both genders is the disease.
Stone
May 27, 2015 @ 8:17 pm
I agree, but I still wonder where the music executives are getting their data from. Who are they targeting? And does it really work? I don’t know how to check on radio ratings, but I wonder if they’re even a fraction of what they were in the ’90s, and what we are seeing is a desperate attempt to stay relevant in a world where the internet is slowly taking their customers.
Eric
May 27, 2015 @ 9:31 pm
The FM radio audience size has stayed surprisingly steady. I suppose that people still enjoy using it in the car.
Trigger
May 27, 2015 @ 8:38 pm
That is why I am NOT lobbying for more female artists on country radio, for the same exact reasons you cited. All I am lobbying for is an equal playing field, and for NOT selling country music as a genre that only males can succeed in because that is the way the format is oriented.
As I said in the second paragraph, “This isn”™t about insisting radio programmers play more females until country radio comes more into line with the male/female ratio of the human population, it”™s about making sure that females are being given an equal opportunity as their male counterparts to be heard…This isn”™t about gerrymandering country radio to make sure more women are included, this is about making sure women aren”™t being purposefully excluded.”
I understand that the difference is subtle, but it is extremely important. I have no desire to see women put on country radio just for the sake of it. That is guaranteed to be a colossal failure. But when you have a young woman who could become a huge star basically get shut out of the format before her career has even started, we are failing as a genre. Every artist, and every song should be judged on their own merit, not on what the sex is of the artist.
Stone
May 27, 2015 @ 8:08 pm
This really makes me sad. I have a teenage daughter. She plays guitar, violin, and keyboards, and sings. If she wanted to pursue a country music career, she probably couldn’t, not because of any limitations she has, but because some glorified accountant’s algorithm told him not to give her a chance. Its disgraceful.
The question I have is, where is Hill getting his data from? What is the target demographic? Who is being surveyed that says people want shallow, mindless songs that the New Kids on the Block would have been ashamed to put out, and to make country radio a sausage fest on top of it all? It seems like there is a very tight demographic making decisions for an entire industry. There is no way that this is sustainable.
Say Whaa
June 3, 2015 @ 11:42 am
The gist of his thesis is supported across all demographics of country listeners. You can find a few exceptions – Mickey Guyton tests well with women but poorly with men, whereas Kacey Musgraves tests poorly with women but well with men – but you generally see similar “callout scores” whether you ask women or men and even as you move through different age groups.
It’s a mistake to write off his data – or to suggest that today’s country listeners truly do like female artists as much as male ones. They don’t.
The counter, however, is to note that the survey sample is a product of the climate. By not playing female artists equally – or even substantially – radio turns itself off to people who want to hear women. So when they do the callout surveys, those listeners aren’t around to weigh in.
You have to ask yourself whehter you want to simply appease your current fanbase or expand your audience. To expand, you have to make changes.
Liza
May 27, 2015 @ 8:20 pm
Kudos to whoever coined it #saladgate. That’s perfect.
Trust me, he said. How many clueless people are running this industry? This guys days are numbered. It is he and others of his ilk who are self-fulfilling the prophecy.
Dave from Kansas
May 27, 2015 @ 8:39 pm
WWKWD? (What would Kitty Wells do?)
Michael
May 27, 2015 @ 8:55 pm
Shane McAnally just called out Hill on Twitter “HILL IS FUCKED UP” he says in the second.
In third he says he wants to discuss face to face.
Musgraves re-tweeted the first one
https://twitter.com/shanemcanally/status/603559994122850304
https://twitter.com/shanemcanally/status/603740644222357506
https://twitter.com/shanemcanally/status/603765827947618304
https://twitter.com/shanemcanally/status/603769378778255360
Get Him Shane. Here’s a reason to trust Shane again.
Michael
May 27, 2015 @ 9:02 pm
They confront each other here
https://twitter.com/shanemcanally/status/603768232839925760
MH
May 28, 2015 @ 6:24 am
So much for “trusting Shane again.” McAnally backpedaled when Hill told him he advocated for the airplay of Kacey Musgraves and now ol’ Shane says he “jumped to conclusions.”
That’s the music business at its finest.
Scotty J
May 28, 2015 @ 8:20 am
This guy is the most overrated hack in country music right now. His attachment to Musgraves and Brandy Clark is the only thing separating him from Dallas Davidson territory.
For the writer and producer of Sam Hunt’s biggest hits to be an authority on anything country music related is an abomination.
Michael
May 28, 2015 @ 9:19 am
He didn’t totally backpedal. He “hoped” it was a misunderstanding. He also still took offence for the Tomato comments.
Michael
May 28, 2015 @ 1:20 pm
He just tweeted “You Say Tomato…I say Fuck You. Doesn’t sound like a backpedal.
JacobB
May 27, 2015 @ 9:44 pm
Actually, if you want good ratings, quit playing shitty music. It’s as simple as that.
pete marshall
May 27, 2015 @ 9:58 pm
Have you heard Jake Owen new song “Real Life” and Randy Houser “We Went”? Don’t waste your time they both are terrible.
pete marshall
May 27, 2015 @ 9:59 pm
I really like females in country music think about 1960’s through 1980’s there were a lot of females in country music at the time.
Eric
May 27, 2015 @ 10:06 pm
The 1990s, in particular, represented the peak of female representation in country music, with such stars as Reba McEntire, Patty Loveless, Pam Tillis, Martina McBride, the Judds, Faith Hill, Shania Twain, Lorrie Morgan, Trisha Yearwood, and many more.
pete marshall
May 27, 2015 @ 11:12 pm
Thank you I meant to say from 1960’s to 1990’s but in the 90’s they were a lot of females country singers during that time. Thank you Eric.
Robert Choate
May 28, 2015 @ 2:55 am
Sounds to me like the tomatoes comment was Mr. Hill’s form of a compliment. He should have used hay (Lettuce) and Oats(female). Then country folk would understand that males are filler material, bland and mostly tasteless, while females are the parts to search out and spread evenly throughout the entire consumption of mass quantities period.
MM
May 28, 2015 @ 4:23 am
Unfortunately, It’s about the shitty lyrics. Sorry, but drinking and tailgate songs do not come off as we’ll from a female. A girl singing about partying and cut off’s? Taylor is a smart girl and realized this and flipped. Good for her.
It’s almost like the sad “boys will be boys” thing and it’s ok for them to get drunk and act stupid. But, we hold ladies in a different light. When a girl does the same things it’s usually sad.
I’m not saying it’s right.
Vance
May 28, 2015 @ 5:54 am
I don’t think it was sexist at all. It is just sadly where we are right now in the format. Young females, 18-34, love “Bro-Country”, and will only tolerate heavy rotation from Miranda and maybe Carrie, but even Underwood doesn’t get the play she used to. These Tiger Beat listeners don’t want any interruptions from their pin-up fantasies. Young girls and soccer moms are buying the hell out of this music, and the record companies keep churning out the junk food for them. They aren’t clever enough to grasp the meaning of the Maddie and Tae hit, because they really do want to be ‘The Girl in the Country Song’. I see it up close, and it is very frustrating. No matter how much record execs complain about the male dominated format, they know they have hit gold. We will not see this trend end anytime soon. Mass entertainment is meant to be consumed, and they’re moving units and selling out stadiums.
Caroline
May 28, 2015 @ 12:02 pm
This post is right on. I am a 32 year old female. I hate FGL, Sam Hunt, Luke, etc. because of the consistently terrible, cliched songs that are played twice an hour on “country” radio. Every single one of my friends however….LOVE these guys. I am in the minority with my Turnpike Troubadours playlist on my phone. These are smart, educated, and typical young mothers, they just have terrible taste in music. Come to think of it, these are also the same group of people who live for “The Bachelorette” and “Real Housewives” so perhaps country radio is just symptomatic of the dumbing down of our entire society.
Eric
May 28, 2015 @ 12:12 pm
Interesting. Were any of your friends country fans 4 years ago? If so, what is their opinion on how the genre has changed since then?
Caroline
May 28, 2015 @ 12:18 pm
Eric-yes, they’ve been country fans since they were kids. They grew up on Garth Brooks, then moved on to Tim McGraw, Kenny Chesney, Rascal Flatts, Shania, etc. The top country acts of the 90’s. One friend in particular admits she is terrible at remembering who sings what songs and she just “knows what I like when I hear it”. Speaking for them, I would say that they would probably realize that there aren’t as many women on the radio now as there were 10-15 years ago, but you’d have to bring it up for them to notice it. I suppose what I am saying is that they view music as they do other consumables-disposable.
Scotty J
May 28, 2015 @ 12:26 pm
What you’re saying here definitely rings true to me. Almost all of the women I know in the 25-45 range that are country fans are totally into Luke Bryan, Jason Aldean and Gary Allan (less so FGL interestingly enough) and give very little thought to whether women are being played. As you say I’m sure if prompted they would say more women should be on the radio but their actions say it isn’t that important.
This consultant guy is extremely blunt but my experience tells me he is more right than wrong.
I think you are correct that this is a symptom of our culture which has become one of followers. The all knowing ‘THEY’ say it’s popular so I guess I need to like it.
Eric
May 29, 2015 @ 1:49 am
Have you asked them the fundamental reason for why they listen to country music instead of pop? What unique features about country music do they like?
I am just having a hard time believing that the same people who loved mainstream country back in 2010 could love it today as well, given how drastically different both the sonic style and the themes are.
Liza
May 28, 2015 @ 4:41 pm
Bingo.
oliverb
May 28, 2015 @ 7:04 am
Strictly looking at this issue at an anthropological angle, there are going to be more men on the radio than women. More men tend to pick up and learn an instrument. Looking back at our ancestors, the men primarily played the musical instruments around the fire while the women danced. I’m not saying women can’t be great musicians and writers but there are just few of them.
You also have the anomaly of the tv talent show. Which I argue has hurt female artists. Here, the contestants have to sing songs already written with a full professional band in the background. Instead of worrying about writing a song and learning all the parts on the instrument the contestants fret about hair makeup and pretty dresses. It’s essentially a pageant. Serious minded female musicians will not compete in these tv shows, which you get is a pretty girl with sub par vocals and no musicality relying on written material, added to this is that these TV show alumni are the ones CMT and radio play on heavy rotation. What you get are not the cream of the crop musically but rather boring female “performers”.
Eric
May 28, 2015 @ 11:11 am
It is true that instrumentalists are disproportionately male, but songwriters are fairly evenly divided between the genders, and great vocalists are disproportionately female.
CountryKnight
May 29, 2015 @ 7:38 am
The talent TV show focuses mainly on attractiveness. Both males and females will suffer when the young stud and cute blonde appear.
Ashley
May 28, 2015 @ 7:47 am
Just did the same experiment others have mentioned with our clear channel owned country station here in Boston. Here is what they played in one hour. Sigh.
Luke Bryan – Roller-coaster
Frankie Ballard – Young & Crazy
FGL – Sippin on Fire
Dierks – Drunk on a Plane
Brad Paisley – Crushin’ It
Lady Antebellum- Bartender
Thomas Rhett – Make Me Wanna
Carrie Underwood – Cowboy Cassanova
Blake Shelton – Sangria
Brett Eldredge – Don’t Ya
Sam Hunt – Take Your Time
FGL – Shine On
Joe Nichols – Sunny & 75
Albert
May 28, 2015 @ 8:05 am
The music industry DOES NOT SELL SONGS . It sells an image . Its easier to sell a ( sexy? ) male to young women and their moms no matter WHAT the song is than to sell a sexy woman to guys ……at least right now it is because the demographic is established and conditioned . The guy just needs to be doing something …anything ….singing …chopping down a tree ..whatever. The target audience for mainstream radio has ALWAYS been women……. now more than ever . The demographic is comfortable with this situation otherwise we’d hear about it from THEM . I would hate fro Kacey or Brandy Clark , Kellie Pickler etc to start pandering to the listener demographic driving the biz right now . As it is , their material is so much better , so much more clever and thoughtful , so much more mature that the male stuff could ONLY be embraced mainstream by a more vacuous audience ( he said dancing lightly ) .
In 2009 , Trisha Yearwood released ” Heaven , Heartache..etc.. ” ..one of the most brilliant country records with some of her most amazing performances of REAL songs and tons of incredible songwriting . The album did poorly . Too good for radio and the female demographic it panders to . Same can be said for Kellie Pickler , Sara Evans , and yes …Kacey and Brandy . RADIO don’t want smart and clever and honest and REAL . They want a backward-hatted wallet-chained bad boy singing grocery list shit OVER AND OVER again to 16 year olds who THINK they are country music fans . Playing more female acts on radio would KILL the stations. The listener demographic has to be educated slowly and methodically – re-programmed . They need to be taught what’s nutritious and what’s bad for your mental and spiritual health and how to avoid those things .
Sully
May 28, 2015 @ 8:17 am
This is a really dumb blogpost. (It doesn’t even have a byline, so I have no idea who wrote it.) The basic argument is that the industry should dictate to the audience what they should hear. Reality is the market dictates to the industry what will be played- so mostly male is what the listeners want to hear, at this point in time. Radio, labels, promoters are in business to make money. If the audience demanded female acts, that is what they would serve them. But music (like fashion, film, all entertainment) runs in cycles. It will turn eventually, but organically. Probably in a few years, the male/female ration will be reversed. It makes sense that since this audience is 75% plus female, they enjoy sexy male acts.
Trigger
May 28, 2015 @ 10:47 am
It does have a byline. “Trigger”. Click “About” if you want to learn more.
“The basic argument is that the industry should dictate to the audience what they should hear.”
Completely wrong and misunderstood, but you’re not the only one. I went very much out of my way to explain that we should NOT tilt the system in favor of women, or dictate the percentage of songs by women on radio, because there are inherent flaws with that approach. What I did say is that there should be an equal playing field, and when this consultant say the “expectation” is that country is male driven, and tasks radio to stop playing females, this is systematical elimination of music based on sex. In other words, it is sexism.
I want each song, each album, and each artist judged on their own merit, regardless of sex.
Adrian
May 28, 2015 @ 9:06 am
I judge songs on their merits. And I don’t think most of the songs being played on country radio these days were selected based on artistic merit. And definitely many good songs by female artists are passed over.
At the same time I would ask some harder questions. Radio stations are in the advertising business. And many advertisers of consumer products like to have moms in the audience, since they do a large share of the shopping for their families. That is consistent with suburban women being a significant part of country radio’s audience for most of the last few decades, and with country being one of the most popular radio formats. So if that were the case, why are there so few female songs played on country stations?
Could there be some female on female friction in the culture, a little “bad blood” as some might say? Might female artists simply lack the benefit of “attraction” that exists between female fans and male artists? Or might some female artists instinctively see the “pretty girls” that Nashville labels tend to recruit as competitors?
It seems to be much easier to produce a new male country artist that connects with a mainstream female audience, than a new female country artist. I am not happy myself about the shortage of female voices on country stations, but I think there could be deeper factors driving this than just sexism.
Here is a link to an interesting article from a few years back about gender disparities in theatre, which exist in spite of a majority of theatre consumers being female: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/theater/24play.html?_r=0
Eric
May 28, 2015 @ 10:57 am
One of the most significant changes in the country music industry over the last few years has been the shift in the age of the target audience.
Historically, the average age of the pop target audience has been about 18 or 19. It is true that middle-aged people on average shop more, but advertisers also care deeply about building brand loyalty, which starts at a younger age.
Country music, on the other hand, used to have a target age of about 35, which included a large number of suburban moms. In recent years, however, the mainstream country demographic has become drastically younger, which explains to a significant extent the rise of bro-country.
Janice Brooks
May 28, 2015 @ 10:14 am
The General Playlist that runs 22 hours a day currently has about 21 percent female material in Classic and Current Country, Bluegrass and Honky Tonk.
John B
May 28, 2015 @ 10:16 am
So this is one of the asshats (apparently the leading one?) who have been systematically destroying the music I love. Nice to be able to put a face with the douchebaggery.
Trigger
May 28, 2015 @ 10:40 am
Yes, you want to know who is REALLY running country music in the ground? It is the $250,000 /yr. behind-the-scenes consultants who can’t get their nose out of a spreadsheet to understand what music is all about. Everyone else is just following what they say. What data predicted to rise of Nirvana? The Sex Pistols? NWA? The Outlaws of country? My guess the data was telling everyone the exact opposite.
Data is the safe play in music. Real music movements start when people ignore it.
Sarah
May 28, 2015 @ 10:23 am
I don’t agree. A lot of people at my sister deer fry liked Holly Williams The Highway. It started with me playing her music for my mom when I had to drive her somewhere. Mom asked me to get The Highway to play in car. People were even asking me about her and where to get her music. I even helped guy get her cd.
I would not shut off the recent country audience. If they are exposed to artists on here they might like their music.
I really like Carrie, Miranda, Little Big Town, Zac Brown Band and Jamey Johnson. I know a lot of people on here don’t like Carrie at all. When I would talk about Holly on Carrie fan site several of them really liked the songs I posted. The songs were off of The Highway. I did same thing for Tami Neilson. Again several people liked her music. Some of them really like Brandy and Kacey as well. I also really like Sarah Jarosz, Valerie June, Tami Neilson, Lindi Ortega, Della Mae, Ashley Monroe, Abigail Washburn, Jamey Wilson and others. I think they would do fairly well if they would get promoted. I mean proper promotion like being played on radio and going to interviews, festivals, award shows, performing on The Voice ect.
Michael
May 28, 2015 @ 12:27 pm
Brandy Clark’s response to this
https://twitter.com/TheBrandyClark/status/604004224633049088
Missy-Lynn
May 28, 2015 @ 12:42 pm
Keith Hill is speaking his own opinion and as all the comments above seems everyone has one. The female singers are needed just as much as the male singers. He does not care for females and that is his choice, thank goodness not every one is that way. I wonder what his Mother thinks {if she is still alive}.
Liza
May 30, 2015 @ 10:31 pm
It’s not an opinion, it’s what he does.
TexasVet
May 28, 2015 @ 1:13 pm
Found this at Country Universe…looks like mostly tomatoes in this salad!
http://www.countryuniverse.net/2015/05/28/say-what-keith-hill/
Here”™s a list of every country studio album to sell more than five million copies in the last twenty years. See if you notice a trend:
Shania Twain, Come On Over ”“ 20 million
Dixie Chicks, Wide Open Spaces ”“ 12 million
Shania Twain, The Woman in Me ”“ 12 million
Shania Twain, Up! ”“ 11 million
Garth Brooks, Sevens ”“ 10 million
Dixie Chicks, Fly ”“ 10 million
Faith Hill, Breathe ”“ 8 million
Garth Brooks, Fresh Horses ”“ 7 million
Carrie Underwood, Some Hearts ”“ 7 million
Dixie Chicks, Home ”“ 6 million
Faith Hill, Faith ”“ 6 million
LeAnn Rimes, Blue ”“ 6 million
Taylor Swift, Fearless ”“ 6 million
Garth Brooks, Scarecrow ”“ 5 million
Deana Carter, Did I Shave my Legs for This? ”“ 5 million
Tayor Swift, Taylor Swift ”“ 5 million
Gretchen Wilson, Here for the Party ”“ 5 million
NashCat
May 28, 2015 @ 1:30 pm
The “female artist in country music problem” is just an byproduct of the larger issue that you continue to illuminate Trigg, that the best music will not be played unless it fits a predetermined formula. It doesn’t matter what Stapleton, Sturgill, Ashley Monroe do.
DJs aren’t really DJ’s anymore. Programmers don’t really set formats anymore. Comparatively few of the radio stations playing country are counted in Billboard numbers. It’s salt without the ability to flavor or preserve, which makes it just as common as any other non precious stone.
The industry has made a conscious decision to exclude anything that doesn’t provide immediate gratification within the first 15 seconds. Male or Female. The genre is like a new pair of fancy vinl cowboy boots. They look good initially but they’ll never last very long.
The problem is, without the machine to do so, how do you reclaim a genre of music? “Country” as a brand is so tainted that those potential fans outside the current demographic don’t bother listening to ANYTHING labelled country.
Its unfortunate but one of our truly American born genre’s (Blues, Bluegrass, Western and much of Jazz are others.), has been been systematically turned into Pop-light.
Great analysis Trigg. I’m afraid though for those hoping for a change on “country radio”… We’re just whistlin past the graveyard.
Stephen
May 28, 2015 @ 1:50 pm
To compliment my post from yesterday about the hour-long playlists on mainstream country radio, here is the playlist from 2:30-3:30 PM CST today on WLWI in Montgomery, Alabama, where I live. (This is a Clear Channel/Nash FM station).
Gary Allan: “Best I Ever Had”
Reba McEntyre: “Going Out Like That”
Kenny Chesney: “Don’t Happen Twice”
Luke Bryan: “Kick Up the Dust”
Blake Shelton w/ Ashley Monroe: “Lonely Tonight”
Lady Antebellum: “Compass”
Billy Currington: “Don’t It”
Justin Moore: “Lettin’ the Night Roll”
Austin Webb: “All Country on You”
Tim McGraw: “One of Those Nights”
Thomas Rhett: “Make Me Wanna”
Kenny Chesney w/ Grace Potter: “Wild Child”
Luke Bryan: “Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye”
That’s a pretty brutal playlist.
Michael
May 30, 2015 @ 9:14 am
I think all Nash stations are mandated to play that new Reba song since she’s their new artist. So, that one is a guarantee to hear in their rotation.
Allan Sawatzky
May 28, 2015 @ 3:29 pm
Keith,
You’re an idiot. Go back to your colouring book. Leave the music business to the professionals and let the LADIES SING.
Signed,
Country to the Bone
CJ
May 28, 2015 @ 6:19 pm
And the Tweet of the Year award goes to……Jason Isbell! Lol
@JasonIsbell
Country Music’s Idiot Of The Year award snatched away from Gary Overton by the incredibly stupid Keith Hill! Keep those interviews coming!
I don’t see other male artists speaking up about this. Probably too afraid to jeopardize their own comfy status on country radio. Blech.
the pistolero
May 28, 2015 @ 6:26 pm
I was thinking earlier that it’s gonna be interesting to see if this dude loses his gig like Gary Overton did…
Robby Cvejanovich
May 29, 2015 @ 6:06 am
Idoit!!!
Sarah
May 29, 2015 @ 12:03 pm
@BradPaisley: When did we become VeggieTales? And can I be the cucumber?
http://inagist.com/all/603996763926753280/
DraftRider
May 29, 2015 @ 3:52 pm
“…lack of female representation on country radio is not just an aesthetic problem or social issue, it is a moral one.”
Why is “female representation” a “problem” or “moral” issue? Is the relative lack of African or Hispanic representation on country radio a moral issue? How about LGBT artists? What about disabled artists?
What is the ideal “representation” of female artists on country radio? Should it be proportional to their appearance in the general population? Or some other metric?
And folks, please try to respond to this legitimate question without labels or DISQUALIFICATION.
Serious question.
Jack Williams
May 30, 2015 @ 7:18 am
I see that you excerpted something from the first paragraph. Then, you ask:
What is the ideal “representation” of female artists on country radio? Should it be proportional to their appearance in the general population? Or some other metric?
Here’s the first sentence from the second paragraph:
This isn”™t about insisting radio programmers play more females until country radio comes more into line with the male/female ratio of the human population, it”™s about making sure that females are being given an equal opportunity as their male counterparts to be heard.
So, I have to ask. Did you read past the first paragraph?
Adrian
May 29, 2015 @ 10:04 pm
In every movement there are some bad attitudes. There are also bad sound bites and bad messengers. Keith Hill’s comment makes him sound like the Todd Akin of the bro country movement. His statement very strikingly reminded people of what they don’t like about the movement.
But I think the reasons why female artists have struggled in the format go deeper than just overt sexism. Basically, I don’t think there is big demand for female artists who don’t fit a stereotype from mainstream country fans – whether they are young bro country fans, or the culturally conservative soccer moms who were country radio’s core audience in the 1990s and 2000s, or the anxious popularity-seeking teen girls that Taylor Swift brought into the genre. These fans hunger for party anthems, attractive males that they could imagine as an ideal lover, and a mainstream female celebrity they can emulate, respectively. There just aren’t many people in that audience whose emotional needs can be satisfied by a Brandy Clark, an Ashley Monroe, or a Kacey Musgraves.
There are talented female artists who need to find the right audience. Unfortunately that audience doesn’t identify with the mainstream country genre any more.
Eric
May 29, 2015 @ 10:20 pm
Adrian,
You mentioned the 1990s as a decade when suburban “soccer moms” constituted the target audience of country radio, a theory that I agree with. As I discussed elsewhere on this thread, the 90s also represented the peak period of female representation on country radio, including such artists as Patty Loveless, Pam Tillis, Reba, and Martina McBride. Can’t we conclude from this that the “soccer mom” audience also loves songs from female artists?
Adrian
May 29, 2015 @ 10:33 pm
You have a point that female artists had more commercial success during the “suburban soccer mom era” of country radio than during the recent “bro country era”.
Martina McBride appealed to your typical Christian soccer mom in middle America because she was one of them. She didn’t stray far from the mainstream. She was definitely not “offbeat” like Brandy Clark or Kacey Musgraves. Sara Evans fits the same description. Reba had a mostly female fan base, but I would guess that her fans were more rural and conservative, vs offbeat and liberal. Probably there is substantial overlap between Reba fans and George Strait fans, with both representing an older and more rural demographic.
I think both in the 1990s and today, the thing that suburban soccer moms are most attracted to in a country artist is a handsome guy with a sexy voice who they can fantasize about as the perfect husband as they daydream in their boredom. The more things change, the more they stay the same …
Eric
May 29, 2015 @ 11:07 pm
So then the question is: why can’t we at least rekindle the Martina McBride model of female success in country music? There is no need to be “offbeat” or political; just heartfelt songs about timeless themes would work beautifully.
Adrian
May 30, 2015 @ 8:20 am
I think one reason is that music is a hit driven business, and it is harder to produce a new artist with blockbuster sales these days, because music sales revenues have declined substantially since the 1990s.
Most solo female Nashville artists who have had blockbuster sales in the past 20 years – including Shania, Faith, Carrie, and Taylor – have followed the pretty girl, pop princess path. Martina is attractive enough and she had pop elements in her songs, but she didn’t fit neatly into that paradigm because she was not marketed that way, and because she did not have as young a persona as the others (Martina was younger than Shania, but her lyrics and her fans were older). There are still suburban mothers listening to country radio who would buy music from someone like Martina, but the absolute amount of revenue she would generate in today’s market might not be big enough for most record labels to be interested.
The decline in the music business may have squeezed out the medium sized hit makers, unfortunately.
Eric
May 30, 2015 @ 1:25 pm
So that is the core problem: the fan base today is much younger than it was in the 90s. If “soccer moms” and middle-aged rural women once again became the target audience, the genre would be far better off.
AshleyAugust
May 30, 2015 @ 9:09 am
I think this is absolutely crazy! Granted I’m not your average country music fan coming from an alternative family, but I love female country music singers! I don’t listen to radio because they don’t play them enough! All my favorite country singers are women! The only country music that even rivals them to me are the classics like Hank Williams Jr!
AshleyAugust
May 30, 2015 @ 9:14 am
I like the bad girl country singers although I’ve got a soft spot for the Dixie Chicks and Reba, but who are still very down to earth and not holier than thou. Just not a Taylor Swift fan, I don’t like any teeny bopper music.
Quotable Country: Side Salad | Country California
May 31, 2015 @ 10:43 pm
[…] functions and other such nonsense that seem to relegate women as artists with special needs. â— — Saving Country Music’s Trigger had a trenchant overview of it […]
Bear
June 2, 2015 @ 9:39 pm
If women are the tomatoes in the country salad I’m ordering a Caprese without the -ahem- cheese.
Josie Waverly
June 11, 2015 @ 12:20 pm
Every now and then when someone doesn’t think they are getting enough attention they may do (or say) something radical to turn peoples heads so they are in the spot light again. Must be ol’ Kevin needed some more spot light!! Well now he’s got it! Ok Kevin…everyone is looking at you..again! Feel better now?!!
Harbor
January 13, 2024 @ 7:47 am
The majority of listeners who have already formed are women, but does meeting the needs of the majority mean that women are viewed as subordinate?