Eric Church Cautions New Artists Not to Solely Rely on Radio
Eric Church is one of those rare animals that is able to straddle the line between the independent and the mainstream, commercial success and grassroots support, and put a massive crowd of fans together regardless of how radio is treating him at the time, or if he has a critically-acclaimed record out at the moment. The main reason for this is due to him not depending on country radio for support for his career, unlike most mainstream stars, and instead taking it when it comes and cultivating a fan base in a more direct way by serving an under-served constituency.
In comments recently to country artist Kelleigh Bannen who hosts a country radio show for Apple Music, Eric Church spoke about how many new artists signed to mainstream labels lose their opportunity to create true fan bases and lasting careers by depending too much on radio and chasing popular trends.
“New artists are set up in a lot of ways to fail and they don’t know it, because what promotion wants—and you know this—they want the easiest path to chart success, but normally the easiest path to chart success, is not something that’s going to matter,” Church says. “That’s why it’s the easiest path. It’s what researches well, it’s what tests well, but that’s not what sticks. That’s not sticky.”
This is how you can have an artist such as Brett Young mint five #1 songs in a row, and still be a club act, or artists such as Travis Denning or Matt Stell that barely anyone has heard of hit #1, but still not benefit from any meaningful name recognition, often because they have yet to release any deeply meaningful or resonant songs.
“I think a lot of artists don’t understand that they’re already in a bad spot,” Eric Church continues. “How do you become sticky? How do you care? Why does somebody know your name? And labels are not set up to do that because those things, that’s different songs, those are songs that only go to #20.”
Eric Church meanwhile is selling out arenas and winning the CMA Entertainer of the Year, even though it’s common for his singles to peter out before getting to #1, or even the Top 10. Out of Church’s 28 official radio singles, only 6 have ever reached #1.
But even though Eric Church might like to say he doesn’t care that much about radio play, each album tends to have at least one song that caters to the radio format at least somewhat, so he is still able to use the apparatus of radio to his advantage. He just doesn’t depend on it. “If you look at our career, it’s pretty easy to see our first single off of every album in our career has been aggressive, including this last one, ‘Stick That in Your Country Song.’ That’s aggressive. But the next one’s normally a pretty big hit,” Church says.
In the interview with Kelleigh Bannen, Church also tells a story of demanding Mike Dungan, who is the CEO of Universal Music Nashville, to release his song “Smoke a Little Smoke” as a single. Dungan throws his glasses across the table at Church and tells him, “It’s your funeral,” but ultimately gives in. It was Church’s 3rd single from the 2009 album Carolina, and it only reached #16. But it established Eric Church as a rebel in the mainstream, and bolstered his bad guy image. It also gave Eric Church the ability to pick his own singles henceforth.
“From there we’ve been able to dictate a lot in our career that other artists don’t get a chance to… It reaffirmed what I believe about music, is when creativity is the lead, that’s how you lead, it works,” Church says.
Of course, nobody believes in Eric Church more than Eric Church, and he always loves to give himself credit for his creativity. Undoubtedly, he might be one of the most creative, and one of the most liberated artists in the mainstream. But taking a wider shot of modern country music and the other artists out there in the independent realm, it’s all still relative.
Nonetheless, Eric Church has done what every mainstream artist should do, which is fight for their creative freedom, and not use radio as a crutch for their careers, but a complimentary partner. Because that’s the way you get the kind of recognition Eric Church has enjoyed independent of radio.
Radio success is the short sugar rush that can feel good and gain you a measure of recognition. But to build a major career like Eric Church, or other mainstream stars like Kacey Musgraves, it takes asserting your own vision as opposed to the one assigned to you by a label, just like many of the successful independent country artists such as Cody Jinks, Tyler Childers, and Sturgill Simpson have done without mainstream radio’s support at all.
Eric Church’s upcoming release will be three records instead of one, titled Heart & Soul. Heart will be made available on April 16th, Soul will be released on April 23rd, and ‘&’ will only be available as a vinyl record to members of his fan club on Tuesday, April 20th.
Parts and pieces of the Eric Church interview can be seen here.
January 31, 2021 @ 11:28 am
Lol i still remember when Eric Church was public enemy #1 on this site????
February 1, 2021 @ 12:51 pm
It isn’t hard to see WHY though, right?
Back then his interviews were pretty insufferable in how egotistic and especially arrogant they came across, and there was more of an exaggerated posturing to his promo then as well. Since “Mr. Misunderstood” he has definitely found more humility and comes across as more likeable and he has also dialed down the posturing, but back then it was hard not to cringe watching any given interview of his.
I’m glad Church has shown plenty of maturity more recently. It makes it much easier to root for him.
February 1, 2021 @ 3:50 pm
Not really.
He was Public Enemy #1 because he was considered an outlaw, outsider, and to some no Nashville artist can be such a thing. (Even if Willie and Waylon were Nashville artists). So naturally he fell under ire for that stance even though he always fought for creative control and releases. The man fought for “Lightning” to be recognized at the very beginning. Under the current system, he is probably the closest artist in fighting for his music as per the original Outlaws standard.
But only the underground guys can posture. /s
February 1, 2021 @ 4:08 pm
Among established names who emerged within the past 10-15 years, most definitely alongside Chris Stapleton and Miranda Lambert.
Anyway, for me the issue was never really what he said, but how he said it. I loved “Chief” and didn’t even mind “The Outsiders” as much as most did because I felt the standout moments gave an otherwise messy affair some replay value. I just felt he had a needless high-falutin’ tonality to what he was saying then when he easily could have just let his music do the talking. I think even he realized that eventually and with “Mr. Misunderstood” onward he has done exactly that without all the unnecessary gimmicks and bravado.
You are most certainly right that many indie and underground artists posture too yet tend to get away with it.
January 31, 2021 @ 12:55 pm
“But it established Eric Church as a rebel in the mainstream, and bolstered his bad guy image.”
Or…made him seem more like a marketeer. YMMV, as always I guess.
January 31, 2021 @ 1:34 pm
I think Eric has a little Garth in him (you’re welcome to whoever hits that softball out of the park!).
February 1, 2021 @ 3:52 pm
99% of artists have some level of marketing around them.
Even Alan. Even King George. Even your favorite independent band. Heck, Dolly is the queen of marketing.
Church and Brooks are just more aggressive about establishing a brand.
February 2, 2021 @ 8:20 am
Church gets to do whatever he wants *because* he’s a very shrewd marketer.
He’s not quite Taylor Swift as far as branding mastery goes, but he’s pretty damn close.
January 31, 2021 @ 1:36 pm
Parker McCollum should take note…
He’s a massive radio sell out with boring pop boyfriend stuff. Looking like a punk hipster riding a hot rod in his newest music video. And he’s a product of Texas radio?? Yikes!!! But people on this site will defend him because he’s from Texas & not from the Nashville scene. I declare hypocrisy!!
January 31, 2021 @ 1:43 pm
???????? I didn’t think I was a bad guy.. But now I’m a douchebag.
Riding around in cut up sleeves, girl are you simping on me? ????????
I just wanna break your pretty Hea-Hea-Hearttttt
January 31, 2021 @ 2:46 pm
Parker McCollum himself addressed his #1 radio single and the strategy behind it, and I posted a dedicated article about how if he wanted true success, what he does next is the most important move of his career, based off the same philosophy Eric Church is talking about here. I wouldn’t put Parker McCollum in the same boat as many of these Nashville radio stars with no fan bases. Parker had a big fan base before the #1.
January 31, 2021 @ 3:30 pm
I get that he wants mainstream success but that doesn’t mean his radio singles should be super bland & blend in with Chase Rice & Russell Dickerson….
He should set himself apart from the bland radio scene… Channel Luke Combs, Pardi, Midland etc etc.
It’s an odd marketing choice because he has turned me off… He’s alienating his fan base with his radio singles. Die hard fans will say “Don’t judge by his singles.. His album cuts are terrific.”. Okay but still, bizarre marketing.
January 31, 2021 @ 3:53 pm
If we stop replying- it’ll go away
January 31, 2021 @ 2:32 pm
If you hear a song like Young Man’s Blues, you can’t doubt that he’s a step up from most of Nashville. He’s not lauded because he’s from Texas, his lauded because he’s just that much better
January 31, 2021 @ 3:24 pm
I’m aware of his other songs. They are good!!
I just don’t really like his current single. It’s very bland & pop-rock infused.
His radio singles make him out to be the next Russell Dickerson lol
February 1, 2021 @ 10:27 am
If anything at least it would be a current artist that is actually talented and hot unlike the current dudes that girls drool over.
February 1, 2021 @ 1:00 pm
Calling him the next Russell Dickerson is a bit harsh lol. Don’t get me wrong, Pretty Heart was obviously written to cater to girls who listen to country radio, but the lyrics aren’t awful by any means, and the song at least sounds like it has country influences. Unfortunately, if an artist wants to establish a foothold in country radio these days, they have to cater to the demands of the core audience, who happen mostly be middle aged soccer moms.
February 1, 2021 @ 4:20 pm
The production of Pretty Heart sounds like Russell Dickerson & Chase Rice.
The lyrics were fine & the song is super catchy. I don’t mind it. But I just love how some ppl on here will defend Parker just because he’s from Texas.
February 2, 2021 @ 8:21 am
Parker McCollum HAS taken a note, haha – that’s the only Boyfriend Country song on his album.
He recorded one as radio-bait, and is going for meat and potatoes stuff with the rest.
January 31, 2021 @ 1:39 pm
Trigger,
This is a GREAT post. If people will read it for what it is, they will realize that Church is a conduit for a method, and the method is what you are highlighting here.
January 31, 2021 @ 1:55 pm
Eric Church & Miranda Lambert both have spotty radio support (especially Miranda) yet they make outstanding albums & are true to themselves!! They have a thriving fanbase because of this!
January 31, 2021 @ 6:52 pm
I can’t wait for the usual “EriC ChUrcH sUcKS cuZ hE wEArs sUnGLasSeS” comments.
January 31, 2021 @ 9:43 pm
Seems you’re still waiting…so I’ll throw you a bone. Maybe it’s WHILE wearing sunglasses.
January 31, 2021 @ 8:44 pm
You either be a leader or a follower in country music. Eric Church created his own unique sound and the fan followed because there is no one else like him. Some of the young artists trying to sound like him to trying to catch his coattails.
What he is saying is find what works for you and stick to your own vision. Don’t let the label box you to the latest trends, you will never break out of th pack and have long career in country music.
February 2, 2021 @ 8:35 am
I mean…that “unique sound” is also known as “80s/90s Steve Earle,” haha.
He’s just *also* willing to play ball with the mainstream, and cut at least one pop track each cycle…and he’s not using hard drugs, which makes him a lot easier to work with than Steve was, at the time.
I really enjoy Eric Church, for what he is: Fairly derivative, but very well-executed, country-rock…but the only difference between him and a dozen guys in Texas is his willingness to play ball with Nashville.
January 31, 2021 @ 9:54 pm
To Travis Denning’s credit, I thought his first single “David Ashley Parker From Powder Springs” was pretty unique and creative
February 1, 2021 @ 12:11 am
Good advice and almost certainly right. Although a major label artist, he for one is not a mainstream artist as such. Looking forward to his new albums.
February 1, 2021 @ 10:57 am
Amazing the big difference one little letter can make right?
????. I read your blog religiously—thanks for what you do.
February 1, 2021 @ 10:41 am
“and cultivating a fan base in a more direct way by serving an undeserved constituency.”
Freudian slip?
February 1, 2021 @ 11:50 am
What Church has done is definitely admirable and well-deserved, but there is one little asterisk I would be remiss not to point out.
Even though Church does explicitly state in the interview that his second singles do tend to consistently fare quite well commercially, he demurs from emphasizing what they all have in common: decisively mid-tempo, breezy, ballad-leaning introspective heartland rock anthems that are framed in a way almost anyone can relate to that with an inocuous production to them.
He also has benefitted from several high-profile feature collaborations on other A-lister’s releases such as “The Only Way I Know”, “Raise ‘Em Up” and “Does To Me” that are more polished than most of what Church has released.
This isn’t being said with the intention of subtracting or diminishing Church’s efforts. He has shown legitimate leadership in the context of mainstream sensibilities from releasing plentiful curveball singles………………….to helping make Ray Wylie Hubbard, Rhiannon Giddens, Valerie June and New Grass Revival among others known to much broader audiences…………………to his approach to the live show. History is going to look more fondly on Church compared to the vast majority of his mainstream peers, and deservedly so. But he has been content to play the game himself all the same, and there IS an obvious formula to his single release strategy dating all the way back to “Chief”.
February 1, 2021 @ 3:56 pm
Wow, mainstream artist plays the game for chart success.
More at 11.
Of course, he plays the game. Any artist looking for chart success has to play some level of it. The difference is, does one completely sell out or make a good compromise? The latter doesn’t bother me. All the legends did the same during their heyday.
February 1, 2021 @ 4:23 pm
That was by no means an indictment on his contributions.
I was just pointing out he has been using the exact same formula in terms of second singles for FOUR consecutive album eras now beginning with “The Outsiders”: beginning with “Give Me Back My Hometown”, continuing with “Record Year”, then again with “Some Of It”, and now with “Hell Of A View”.
I personally think they’re all decent (“Some Of It”) to damn solid (“Record Year”) songs, but they do admittedly all sound pretty samey with the breezy, acoustic-driven, mid-tempo, reflective ballad-esque styling. The last time he had a decisive radio hit that didn’t fall in this category was “Creepin'” all the way back in 2012.
For as much as Eric Church otherwise takes plenty of chances stylistically on both lead singles and deeper cuts, his intended “give radio what they want” singles are nonetheless very predictable (though still certainly better lyrically than most of his mainstream peers).
February 1, 2021 @ 5:58 pm
I’m a huge Eric church fan and I’ll absolutely give you your point. It’s a good one and props to you for pointing it out, I’ve never seen someone make that point. But it really doesn’t bother me or prove something. You have to get that radio single out to appease the label and get your money. But as long as the entire album is good, that’s what matters.
February 1, 2021 @ 8:40 pm
I would argue it (the single selection) goes all the way back to CHIEF. Throws out Homeboy, which for it’s day was a wacky ass pick off the record. Especially for a lead single. Stalls on the chart, then he throws out Drink in My Hand, which became a massive hit. Not so much heartland rock inspired as much of a typical bro country drinking song.
After listening to his marketing plans behind his records and single selections, I think it’s a great way to toe the line of playing the game while still being able to creatively do what you want. His interview with CRS last year was phenomenal to listen to, because he went into this in detail, as well as a lot of the Rascal Flatts drama and other marketing stuff. I’m extremely pumped about what this next project is going to sound like. Pre release singles (minus Mother Trucker, which still is sonically a jam) have all been really good. Big fan of the Heart on Fire sound, which I think we will hear a lot more of.
February 2, 2021 @ 5:36 am
Agreed with everything here. He then followed up “Drink in My Hand” with his biggest commercial hit in “Springsteen”. Which fills that breezy, accoustic, mid-tempo that Nadia mentioned.
I think the biggest key to Church’s success has been that his sound has matured along with his fan base from his early days. You don’t see him singing songs about bonfires and parties as if he’s there in the moment (like a Luke Bryan). His songs about young love/other poignant moments that take place as teenager or young adult are typically pretty retrospective and looking at the past fondly. Things his fanbase that started listening to him between ages 18-25 can relate to now that they are approaching their mid-30’s/40’s.
February 2, 2021 @ 9:08 am
Yeah – he’s clearly a very bright guy, who knows how to play the game…and he’s absolutely playing the game, haha!
Best part of the interview is the lack of starry eyed idealism – Church isn’t saying “Look how cool I am for sticking to my guns, and still finding commercial success!”
He’s saying “Having a core brand identity, and using it to differentiate myself from other artists in the market, is why I’m commercially successful. If I had prioritized chasing #1s, I’d make less money than I do now.”
It’s a brass tacks, dollars and cents argument against trying to chase the Thomas Rhett model, the way so many initially promising acts wind up doing.
February 1, 2021 @ 12:42 pm
?
February 2, 2021 @ 10:27 am
“Hey kiddos, don’t rely on radio to have a successful career. Also, watch out when you’re on your horse, you have to share the roads with these new-fangled motorcars!”