Interview – Whitey Morgan & Jeremy Mackinder
The Pickathon Fesival out in Portland, OR has just announced the rest of their 2011 lineup, including the very cool addition of Kentucky’s Sunday Valley. Pickathon likes to say they don’t have headliners in the traditional sense: huge super-names that grab people’s attention. I guess this just proves how much of an independent music nerd I am, because I look at their lineup and see headliners up and down it, people like Ray Wylie Hubbard, Pokey LaFarge, and Michigan’s Whitey Morgan & The 78’s. In fact “headliners” is exactly what I called Whitey & the boys in my South by Southwest recap.
Whitey Morgan and his bass player Jeremy Mackinder have a very similar symbiotic relationship that made the pairings of Waylon Jennings and his drummer Ritchie Albright, Willie Nelson and his drummer Paul English, into such successful, productive duos: a working relationship that just works, where creativity can flourish while nuts and bolts tasks still get done. During SXSW I sat down with the pair for a chat.
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Triggerman: Y’all are from the Detroit/Flint area. Since I’ve been covering this music, it blows my mind how many bands come from the upper Midwest. Why do you think the upper Midwest is such an epicenter for bands willing to do it their way?
Whitey: I think it’s a rebellious type thing, because we come from a place that’s not known for that kind of music. But the place that is known for that type of music isn’t fucking doing it. What can I do to not only feel real about what I’m doing, but also get some attention? And maybe knock down some doors and let people know there something wrong with the mainstream right now. There’s volumes and volumes of great music that nobody seems to give a shit about anymore.
Jeremy: You wake up in Flint or Detroit or anything up north, you wake up pissed off, and you go from there. There’s a lot of piss and anger and vinegar in that area, and this music kind of lends itself to that. I don’t think there’s any way to take away that fight from anything a band from Detroit is going to do. I used to love going to New York City. Any band you were in, you could plug “from Detroit” and you had a crowd. Detroit just reeks of attitude, and so does this kind of music.
Whitey: It’s tough up there. Every day in the Winter is an uphill battle. It’s colder than shit, you’re waiting 10 minutes for your car to warm up, if it starts. For me, you spend 35 Winters in a shithole town, everything ain’t roses, and that’s kind of what this whole music is about. A lot of my songs are about drinking and forgetting about that shit.
Triggerman: I sometimes feel bad for the honky tonk bands and the fans for this music in the South, because they want to have regional pride, they want to have state pride, and like we were talking about, there’s not a whole lot of this music coming out of the South that fits that concept. And people think of Michigan as “Yankees” since it’s up north. I spent some time living in Flint, and what’s funny about Michigan is that it has a culture that is so unique to itself. Like you call a convenience store a “Party Store”, and you have blinking red lights at left turns. You go to Michigan any say “What is going on here?” There’s a lot of rural culture that is permeated throughout Michigan.
Whitey: 20 minutes outside of any city in Michigan could be northern Alabama. The people are that backwoods and turned around. In the 70’s when my grandpa was playing music in Flint, almost a quarter of the population were transplants from the South that came to work at the factories. When you have a quarter of the population, and they start having babies, what you have is this Southern culture that is ingrained in them, even though some of them have never even been there. Like me when I was growing up, the things we ate, certain words that you said were Southern. To me it was normal. To my friends that were really Yankee’s, it was weird. They didn’t eat fried bologna sandwiches and drink sweet tea and listen to gospel and bluegrass on Sundays at their grandpas house. Any of the Southern food, that’s what my grandma’s house smelled like any time I went in there. My grandpa demanded that stuff, he was a hardcore Southern guy living in fucking Flint, MI.
Jeremy: Speaking of Whitey’s grandpa, he had this look that Whitey showed me a picture of one time, where he’d stare right through you. Go ahead and make a mistake on stage, and see that look come firing down your way! (laughing)
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Triggerman: Y’all just recorded an album for Bloodshot Records, you did it at Levon Helm studios in New York. I hear a lot of people talk about, “Well what’s the point of even being on a label anymore?” It seems like y’all had some big opportunities from that release. Y’all were on NPR’s Mountain Stage, and other opportunities I just don’t see completely independent bands be able to crack.
Whitey: They do a lot of the legwork. We get their Rolodex when we need it, whereas when you don’t have that, you have to go out there and do it all on your own. Which is fine I’m sure for some people, but you can’t be out there playing 230 shows a year and still deal with trying to find new contacts. Not to mention the fact that were on Bloodshot brings people to shows, even if they’ve never heard us, because they have a respect and a reputation from their followers.
Jeremy: We had put out another album with a different label, and not to slug on them but they didn’t have the country cred that Bloodshot does. We end up on Bloodshot, and all of a sudden Sirius/XM plays our music like crazy. And people think that the disadvantage of being on a label is that you’re not going to make any money off your records. But quite honestly, unless you’re selling hundreds of thousands of records, you’re not going to make any money on your records anyway. Independent or label-wise, your records are just kind of paying for themselves.
Whitey: Realistically, and it doesn’t matter what level you’re on, live shows is where you make your money. You can be independent and do everything yourself, but if you can’t get out there and play shows, then what’s the point?
Triggerman: How did the whole Bloodshot thing come about?
Whitey: You’ve got to give credit to the Deadstring Brothers and Wayne Hancock. Our road guy Stubby was actually touring with Deadstring when we were off. He’s a big cheerleader of ours. Every chance he got he’d be talking to Bloodshot about us. And even Travis.
Jeremy: Travis our drummer was in Deadstring and Tamineh our fiddle player was in Deadstring.
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Triggerman: Jeremy, so you used to write for big publications?
Jeremy: I did. I did it under pseudonyms. I only had two printed. As a musician, when you say something negative, you definitely don’t want people to know that was you. Not because I was scared, just because it could reflect negatively on my band. You have to be careful, because you represent five other people too, and you represent your livelihood. Another thing you have to be careful of too is politics. Politics is a polarizing thing. Politics and music are like oil and water.
Whitey: That’s what I want to tell somebody, you’re a fucking entertainer. I don’t give a fuck what you think about the state of the goddamn world. Fucking entertain me, that’s what I paid you to do. I know that’s pretty harsh, but that’s the way I feel sometimes. Where do they get off thinking they know best?
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Triggerman: Y’all are living your dreams, playing your music, the way you want to play it, on your terms. Do you have any other drive? Like saying “this music needs to stay alive.”
Whitey: Oh, definitely.
Jeremy: We were just hollering about that the other day in the kitchen. We have to do this. We feel a responsibility to push this forward and continue to make this happen. For the longest time at shows people would come up and say, “Man I don’t like country music but I sure like you guys!” Well that just means you hadn’t heard country music.
Whitey: Granted we’re not traditional country music like Dale (Watson) or Wayne Hancock. They’re keeping it in the genre, in the era, more correct. We’re a little louder, we strip the songs down more. More of a meat and potatoes kind of thing because God bless us, we can’t play those songs, I can’t play guitar like Dale. But that’s not what we want to play. Some of the greatest songs ever written were written that way because of limitations of the musicians.
Triggerman: Well you hear Waylon’s “Are You Sure Hank Done It This Way”. What a simple song.
Whitey: He did what he knew how to do, and he did the fuck out of it. Better than anybody else. People ask “What’s responsible for how your bands sounds?” and I say “musical limitations”. We’re not that good, but we do what we know how to do and we do it every goddamn night with everything we got. I always say, who would you rather hear play a dirty blues song, Keith Richards or Joe Satriani? Who technically is way fucking better, and who do I want to hear?
April 19, 2011 @ 1:02 pm
IMO Whitey & The boys and gal are the best thing out there right now. The new CD hasn’t left my my car CD player since it came out. Hell even my wife likes them and its not often that she likes the music that i do. Big props to Misfit Radio for turning me on to these guys about 3 or 4 yrs ago before their debut CD came out.The whole band are just a great group of people for who i enjoying talking & listening to. I will be a life long fan thats for sure. Looking forward to seeing them again on May 7th!!
April 19, 2011 @ 1:19 pm
thanks to the both of ya.
April 19, 2011 @ 5:02 pm
I started the show because of them.. In my mind I felt that everyone needs to hear them so what can i do to get them heard? Start Misfit Radio! The first time I saw them was at The Machine Shop in Flint, MI and they opened up for Coe and I want to say it was 2005 and we were blown away. I heard an excellent version of Folsom Prison Blues and then they topped it with a blistering version of Ramblin Man. Long story short, at the end of the show Whitey announced they had CD’s for sale for $1 so I stumbled back to the merch table and pulled out all the cash outta my pockets i had left to buy as many copies as I could so i could hand them out to everyone I knew. I still have a few copies I saved for a collector item..
April 19, 2011 @ 1:32 pm
Another great read. Whitey’s stuff stays in constant rotation in my truck and the man cave. Jeremy Mack and Bob Rutherford are the undisputed kings of ass kickin’,drivin’,outlaw electric bass players. Damn fine stuff.
April 19, 2011 @ 2:45 pm
Great interview. I want to go to a Party Store and eat fried bologna sandwiches too.
April 19, 2011 @ 4:55 pm
I just had one the other day. First one in years.
Great interview.
April 19, 2011 @ 3:04 pm
Now i like whitey but TOTALLY disagree about all the good bands being from the midwest. Anybody ever hear of The Randy Rogers Band? that aint midwest by no means I just think that the bands from the south are being shot the bird and i dont understand why.
April 19, 2011 @ 3:41 pm
Who said “all good bands being from the midwest”? I certainly didn’t say that. I don’t see anywhere where Whitey or Jeremy said that.
I’ve heard of The Randy Rogers band. So has everybody else. They were nominated for Top Vocal Group of the Year by the ACM Awards. Just because I don’t talk about a group that dozens of other outlets are, doesn’t mean I’m “flipping them the bird”, or that I don’t like them. I’d rather talk about the artists that are NOT getting the deserved attention, like Marty Stuart, from Mississippi, or Whitey Morgan.
Where an artist is from has no bearing on my support of their music. It depends on how good it is, and how much support they need. But if where they are from is interesting, then I think it is good to try to expand on it. I can’t in any way see where this could be taken as an insult.
April 19, 2011 @ 3:14 pm
The best part about the upper midwestern bands is that they come to or are damn near my home state of Wisconsin. Can’t wait to see WM&78’s asap!
April 19, 2011 @ 3:55 pm
I’m seeing these guys play live here in Champaign, IL next week! I absolutely love their music and I’ve worn out both their cd’s. It’s about time they play here. It gets kinda irritating because all the good bands on Bloodshot pass us up even though we’re 2-3 hours away…ie Scott Biram. I can’t afford to drive that far to see these great bands. I did manage to to see Dale Watson a month or so ago here and got to hear “Where Do You Want It”…classic.
April 19, 2011 @ 3:57 pm
Tomorrow night I’m seeing Jason Boland & Turnpike Troubadours here in Champaign as well. I don’t hear these bands mentioned on this site much but they deserve all the cred they can get.
April 19, 2011 @ 7:53 pm
Huge Jason Boland fan… guys like him and Whitey Morgan are what we should be seeing on CMT.
April 19, 2011 @ 8:05 pm
I was led on to Jason Boland by Pandora Radio.. I really enjoy their music.
April 20, 2011 @ 10:16 am
2 of my favorite bands right now!
April 21, 2011 @ 10:55 am
Speaking of Jason Boland and the Straggers….Whitey Morgan and the 78’s are going to be doing a show with them in Minnesota on June 3rd. Cannot wait for that show! Just caught Jason Boland and the Stragglers in Madison, WI on Tuesday. As usual, they delivered an excellent show. Turnpike Troubadours are an awesome band to see as well. It is great to see them getting the exposure they are getting lately.
April 19, 2011 @ 4:04 pm
That was a great read. Thank you! I love these guys but don’t get to hear much about them.
April 19, 2011 @ 4:21 pm
I live just south of Flint, A year and a half ago I was trying to buy some Hank lll tickets at High Octane Apparel, and the guy says if you like lll you will like my buddy’s band Whitey Morgan and the 78s. Went and learned about them, and now everytime he comes back home I blow my facebook page up telling everyone to get there asses out and see them. Hes playing The Machine Shop Sat. FUCK YEAH
April 19, 2011 @ 4:52 pm
Matt is a real good dude and a tremendous artist.. Its funny I was in there yesterday and I look up and what do i see? The Honky Tonks and Cheap Motels on vinyl… 🙂
April 19, 2011 @ 4:44 pm
Whitey Morgan & the 78s are one of my very favorite bands, and they are the band I would like to see live more than any other out there. Both of their records are fantastic, and my limited interactions with Jeremy on this very site lead me to believe he is a stand-up guy. Thanks for the interview Triggerman!
April 19, 2011 @ 4:51 pm
great article! yeah these boys rock, we’ve been going to there shows for a couple years now, and never seen a bad one. in fact gonna drive 7 hours to go see them at $4 gallon and hotel, if that tells you how good they are! keep the goods coming boys, and thanks for fighting for good music triggerman.
April 20, 2011 @ 8:06 am
Awesome….thanks for making the travels with us.
April 20, 2011 @ 6:23 pm
These guys are the real deal. I tell everyone I know about them (although up here in Yankee-land, Massachusetts, it’s hard to turn anyone on to country music. They look at you like you have 5 eyes.) If they’re playing within 300 miles of here the wife and I are road trippin’ to see them. Hope they keep it going for a long, long time.
April 21, 2011 @ 12:30 pm
man, i love these guys, and i’m all for northerners playing southern music, but i felt like it was insinuated that we as southerners aren’t doing our part and somehow need the folks up north to bail out our music. we’re doing ok. don’t worry about us. we’re flattered everybody wants to sound like us and tap into our culture, though. now excuse me, but i’m going to go work on singing in an australian accent. oh, and i’m drunk.
April 21, 2011 @ 1:01 pm
there was no calling out of southerners…just the mainstream country coming out of Nashville.
I love it down south and head there every time I can.
July 4, 2013 @ 8:52 pm
The biggest problem I have with “Pop” Country and “Real” Country is the bullshit fixation everyone has with the south, and that only southerners can play real Country Music. Whiteys Music would fit right in at some Rust Belt dive up here in Michigan, and not just because of everyone who came up the Dixie Highway either. Michigan does have a unique culture, and I think that comes through in its Music; Bob Seger, for example. All I think of is Michigan when I hear one of his songs. Most of the State is very rural, but only the dumbass kids who like Florida Georgia Line and Eric Church are trying to pretend they’re good ol boys from the South. All I see in the South is a bunch of burned out towns and ignoranr rednecks anyway, whats there to be so proud of?
April 22, 2011 @ 9:38 am
Besides being about the best (and hardest working and hardest drinking) band around, and a group I’d travel far to see, Jeremy and Whitey and Tamineh and Travis and Brett are all great people at every level. The world needs more people like them, musicians and otherwise.
And I can’t wait to rock out tonite in Lansing, and tomorrow in Flint!!!!
April 25, 2011 @ 4:48 pm
Just saw Whitey saturday night in Flint for the 10th time…Awesome as always! They are definatley one of the best if not THE best live country band!