Jason Isbell, Lucinda Williams Address Ryan Adams Situation

Lucinda Williams just released a new record called Good Souls Better Angels, and Jason Isbell is about to release a new one called Reunions on May 15th. And in lengthy interviews with both artists published recently, the subject of their (once) mutual friend Ryan Adams came up in pretty in-depth manners.
Jason Isbell was running buddies with Ryan Adams for quite a few years earlier in his career, and he attributes Ryan to helping him get sober in 2012. Many also overlook that Adams was Jason Isbell’s initial pick to produce his landmark, breakout album Southeastern, but a last minute scheduling conflict put Dave Cobb in the producer’s chair.
Lucinda Williams has also been close to Adams over the years, and wrote a song about him called “Little Rock Star” from her 2008 album Little Honey that speaks to Ryan’s insatiable desire to be cutting edge, controversial, and as a by-product, self-destructive. It’s revealed in Lucinda’s recent interview with The Guardian that her new song “Shadows & Doubts” is about Adams as well. “Now the press has found you out, and one can only guess what this is about…” the song goes, though Lucinda qualifies that she hopes the audience leaves the song’s themes open for interpretation.
The career of Ryan Adams of course has been on hiatus after an scathing exposition in The New York Times during the height of the #MeToo movement in February of 2019. The story revealed numerous allegations by former love interests and associates. Adams was accused of offering to help certain women with their musical careers, only then to turn around and pursue them sexually. He was also accused of sending a sexually-explicit image to a 15-year-old—a charge that has been investigated by the FBI, but no charges have been brought.
Ryan Adams wasn’t accused of rape or other major offenses, and some have referred to the attitude The New York Times and the public brought to the story as one of the excessive cases of cancel culture. The Times took the accusations of former jilted lovers and used it to destroy Ryan’s life and livelihood. Undoubtedly, if the accusations are true, Ryan Adams acted inappropriately. For his part, he denies all the charges and accuses The New York Times of embellishment. But regardless of what side of the story you believe, some believe Adams should have an opportunity of rehabilitation. One of those people is Lucinda Williams.
“Look, I know Ryan, and I know he’s fucked up a lot of things,” she says. “He’s one of those people who you can love but he can also piss you off. God knows he’s made enough mistakes. This is looking at somebody who basically fucked things up and trying to deal with seeing that person in that place but still being concerned about them. I still love Ryan. Do I agree with what he did? No. I’m not trying to say: ‘Oh, poor Ryan, he was all misunderstood.’ I’m just taking the situation and turning it into a song, but I think you can apply it to different things. I don’t want this to seem like I’m completely defending his actions.”
The Guardian writer, Laura Snapes, used the case as an example of how the social urge to shame can be rooted in fear of our own worst instincts, and how justice requires rehabilitation—something that is commonly advocated for when it comes to common criminals, but seemed to be lost at times during the #MeToo fervor.
“Well, I agree,” Lucinda Williams said. “And the other thing is, it’s an illness. It’s very taboo but it’s another form of mental illness, and they need help. My father used to describe it, like when a real close friend of the family committed suicide, as: we’re all standing around the edge of this deep, dark well and some people jump or fall and others don’t. We’re all faced with the same temptations.”
Jason Isbell, in an interview with GQ, explained how he used the situation with Ryan Adams to re-evaluate his friendships and to be more aware of the people he’s around.
“I was disappointed in myself for not realizing that those kinds of things were happening,” Isbell said. “And the situation with Ryan and with the Times story made me rethink my friendships with other men and how much we’re actually sharing with each other. And I think it really helped me redefine, you know, what kind of a friend I want to be to somebody.”
“There were a lot of things that I thought about Ryan’s situation, foremost being that I felt sorry for the people who had had to deal with it, for the women who had had to deal with it. But one thing that I thought was I need to actually care more about what somebody is doing on a day-to-day basis, because, first of all, I don’t want to be close to somebody who is doing these kinds of things again. And also, if you’re gonna be somebody’s friend, you need to know ’em better. I wasn’t being a very good friend. You know? Whether he deserved a good friend or not, I should have known that those things were going on.”
Ryan Adams took the country and alt-country world by storm with his original band Whiskeytown and his early career efforts before becoming one of the biggest rock stars of the era. But his attitude and demeanor was well-documented, with the press often using it to praise him as opposed to a cause for alarm. Saving Country Music once criticized Adams for lashing out at country, saying he only performed the music ironically, and was one of the few outlets to question his efforts covering Taylor Swift’s 1989 album while much of the press lauded the effort.
But as Lucinda Williams points out, it’s fair to question if the Ryan Adams punishment fit the crime, and if he shouldn’t be offered the opportunity at rehabilitation and to make amends, while we now have a deeper understanding of the motivations of some in the media to post salacious stories, with the feeding frenzy sparked by social media exacerbating the disconnect with important edicts of Western society such as innocent until proven guilty, and the opportunity to return to society once punishment has been fulfilled.
April 25, 2020 @ 9:04 am
Any comments completely off-topic and strictly political in nature will be immediately deleted. Zero tolerance.
April 25, 2020 @ 3:32 pm
Who couldn’t see Isbell going fully WOKE?
April 26, 2020 @ 7:28 am
Isbell’s comments were pretty much: “I felt sorry for the people who had had to deal with it, and I hope I can do better myself in choosing friends”.
It’s unfortunate that that statement can be characterized as “woke”, as if he’s being pretentious.
April 26, 2020 @ 12:47 pm
What kind of person finds Isbell to be the bad person here?
April 26, 2020 @ 1:09 pm
What kind of person doesn’t see someone who throws their old friend to the wolves, when that friend was there to help them when they needed it, as a bad person?
April 26, 2020 @ 5:08 pm
“throws their old friend to the wolves”
Really? Reread his comments. Isbell is under no obligation to help or defends Ryan Adams’ actions.
April 26, 2020 @ 5:21 pm
Yes really.
April 27, 2020 @ 5:44 am
Here’s what Trigger had to say about Isbell’s comments in a comment further down.
As a man and someone people know was close to Ryan Adams, Isbell is in a more difficult situation answering these questions. Some criticized him for not being outspoken enough when the Ryan Adams stuff first came out. Meanwhile Lucinda wrote a song about it, so she’s a little more fair game, and is probably better prepared of how she’s going to respond to the subject.
Some of that nuance and understanding that you claim to value. And Kevin Broughton (whose defense you’ve come to for some reason) has written on at least a couple of occasions that he’s hoping that Isbell falls off the wagon, as that might improve his music. Of course, that might suck for his wife and daughter. Oh, and he’s a Never Trumper who says he just might vote for Trump because of these “bedwetting lefties.” Pathetic. But hey, he’s speaking out against “cancel culture,” however reflexively, so thumbs up!
April 27, 2020 @ 6:30 am
Jack, I like it. And I’ve noticed a depth to your comments several times, FWIW coming from me.
Do you think coming to the defense of a COMMENT equates to defending a PERSON and everything they’ve said?I didn’t know about the comment you are referring to, but if I need to signal some virtue here, I don’t agree with wishing an ill such as falling off the wagon on anyone. I suppose I could call out everything that I see that I don’t agree with, but I prefer to stick to the overarching themes by matter of importance to me…of which, I can see you understand, even if reflexively.
And how are we bringing Tump into this? You seem to have kept better track of peoples comments than myself…who is the never trumper? You lost me there.
Finally, thank you for your reply. Unlike your comment here, the comment I was replying to was a shallow attack on someones character, instead of making any sort of useful argument like you are doing here. Yes, I did reply myself in a similar manner… I have seen numerous not recognized people fly into these comments in defense of selective, certain topics, shit on people, and leave without any further replies. And sure enough, that person has already flown away. I didn’t see the value in a more in depth comment, but felt the need to push back a little. I’m still ok with doing so.
April 27, 2020 @ 10:56 am
Just letting you know a little about the person attached to that comment, or at least, how he comes across to me. And no, I’m not keeping track of comments. I have a good memory and I can’t help but remember sometimes. I know that there’s a person with that name who writes for another music site and I’m guessing that’s him. And as a long time reader here (about 10 years), it annoys me that someone who probably writes on another music site has no problem with injecting partisan politics (in sometimes in a rather vicious way) into discussions on this site, when Trigger tries to discourage such things. It just feels disrespectful to me. But I guess we all have our pet peeves. And of course, KB is the Never Trumper. And just so we’re clear, the point I was making was just another one about KB. He made it a point to state that he was a Never Trumper while in the same breath, saying he might vote for him because of these bedwetting lefties. Now, he was probably just throwing a little tantrum when he wrote that. But yeah, I do remember that and it left a negative impression.
April 27, 2020 @ 11:11 am
Got you…theres a few comments that stick out to me and I remember too.
Thanks for the reply.
April 28, 2020 @ 10:25 am
Isbell. The newly crowned “King of Woke…”
April 26, 2020 @ 5:43 pm
Pathetic that Isbell is going on a rant about how he feels bad for not knowing more about what his “friend” is doing…now he wants to make it about himself, self loathing anyone? Jesus, just play me a song…
April 26, 2020 @ 8:13 pm
I’m not sure that characterizing Jason Isbell’s comments as a “rant” is fair. A reporter asked him a question, and he answered it. It’s not like he felt like he actively needed to address the situation out of the blue. You may not like what Isbell said, but the quotes came up in the broader context of an interview about himself and his new album.
April 27, 2020 @ 12:32 am
Kinda felt like Isbell is a married guy, sober with a little kid so he is taking a specific stance in regards to his own life.
April 29, 2020 @ 8:15 pm
The kind of person who sees that DRA was there for Isbell at his lowest point and that perhaps Isbell wasn’t big enough to tell return the friendship because it wasn’t in his interest. Pretty lame if you ask me. I’m not saying he should defend Adams, but I am saying he could have still been there for him.
May 3, 2020 @ 12:57 pm
Exactly. You summed it up.
April 26, 2020 @ 7:31 pm
Patterson Hood: “I’m gonna discard my history as a nuanced, sophisticated songwriter and become a Twitter-baiting, pathetic shadow of my former self”
Jason Isbell: “Hold my non-alcoholic craft near-beer.”
April 26, 2020 @ 8:31 pm
You win.
April 26, 2020 @ 8:33 pm
And your website gets second place.
May 24, 2020 @ 5:36 pm
I think Ryan Adams is a pretty fantastic writer and music brain. With that said, obviously it’s a very serious matter with minors involved and the exploiting of women. To my knowledge has a full on criminal or civil case been brought forward against Ryan Adams? What never gets brought up by woman is that men are exploited as well. Not so much by women sexually but by men who sway the power in all facets of life. The rise or climb to doing anything well or just making it happen everyday in life is full of uneven standards and slippery sloops.
In terms of Isbell and Patterson Hood well, both are two of my favorites a long time. I don’t always agree with their politics and views but that’s what our country was built on. I don’t think you need to like every detail about an artist or anyone for that matter to be a supporter or enjoy their music.
I will say this, they are both smart guys and they have both increased their earnings significantly by being the concerned artist that needs to be heard on every public matter. To should be of no surprise to know that they, and Mike Cooley are Southern Liberals. Their music has reflected it since the beginning.
May 1, 2020 @ 5:17 pm
LOL, he might not have been accused of rape, but there are different degrees of wrong before you reach rape.
And whether the already rampant misogynist that you have proven yourself to be repeatedly wants to admit it or not, offering women help professionally and then preying on them sexually is wrong.
And pro tip: writing an article with a shitty political stance and then deleting everyone who disagrees with you is a little bitch move. Grow a goddamn pair, you fucking coward.
May 1, 2020 @ 5:28 pm
Whoa, hold on just a second here Katie. Perhaps you should go back and re-read (or read) the article before you come sideways at me. Nowhere am I defending Ryan Adams.
Also, there’s no “political stance” taken with this article, shitty or otherwise. And nobody’s opinions are being stifled here, which you can clearly see if you navigate through this comments section. My comment warning people about political tangents was to try and keep this conversation healthy and on topic, not a front to delete people who disagree with me. Your comment calling me a “fucking coward” is the perfect example. Instead of thumbing your nose at me, perhaps spend a bit more time getting informed of what this article and discussion has been about. Then I would love to hear your opinion and perspective.
December 18, 2020 @ 10:23 am
Is Trigger going to review Wednesdays?
December 18, 2020 @ 10:50 am
It’s on my radar. The more pressing or important story might be about the environment in which it was released.
December 18, 2020 @ 2:23 pm
Yes indeed.
December 18, 2020 @ 4:26 pm
The lyrics to “Birmingham” are quite interesting.
April 25, 2020 @ 9:12 am
Interested to hear why you didn’t include the public statements by his ex-wife Mandy Moore. I’d say she rises above the level of “jilted ex lover”
April 25, 2020 @ 9:25 am
The accusations against Ryan Adams have been extremely widely reported and happened well over a year ago and are widely known, and don’t need to be repeated beyond a basic summary for context. If people want to read more, they most certainly have their choice of resources for that. My interest here was to highlight the quotes from two individuals in roots music who know (or knew) Ryan Adams very well that were published in the last few days. I’m in no way attempting to shield Ryan Adams or anything. Like I tried to illustrate (without making this article about me), there’s no love lost here when it comes to Ryan Adams. He once called this site out from stage and has me blocked on Twitter. I just thought these were interesting quotes about an important figure that were worthy of sharing and discussion.
April 25, 2020 @ 9:30 am
Definitely didn’t mean to imply you were shielding him. Just wondering about the choice not to mention a prominent name (who was married to him). Appreciate the reply!
April 25, 2020 @ 9:33 am
No worries Bob. It’s a fair question, and I just wanted to explain for everyone why I chose not to get too in-depth into the accusations themselves.
August 14, 2021 @ 8:50 pm
The educating conversation here should focus on rehabilitation….”Wha’,I fucked up…??Oh,Okay…well i’m going to apologise and learn from it….!!! See, not rocket Science…a rapidly changing World requires some next-level thinking….
See me as I am,not as I was
April 25, 2020 @ 2:49 pm
I believe the old 97s wrote crush on the barrelhead about what a bad guy Adams is on a personal level. Ryan Adams is a shitty guy isn’t a new thing, it just took a new social context in order for people to care about it.
But really this speaks to one of my biggest criticisms of modern society. Nobody believes in atonement. Some people want people banished forever for their misdeeds, while others will forgive anything as long as the person is on their side.
Ideally we would be willing to forgive people who both suffer real meaningful consequences for their misdeeds and who are willing to engage in some level of self sacrifice to make amends. But almost nobody today wants that. They either want people gone forever or they actively celebrate shitty people as some sort of rebellion against people they hate.
I don’t see any evidence Ryan Adams has attempted to atone in any way so I don’t really feel like defending him in any way.
April 25, 2020 @ 4:22 pm
There is so much room for forgiveness with Adams. He gets in his own way with his immature and di@kish attitude. If he would take a moment to show any real reflection or introspection ppl would forgive. But he seems incapable of that at this time.
April 26, 2020 @ 3:15 pm
Crash could be about Ryan…the 97s and RA had a very up and down relationship..mostly driven by RA. Murry is a pretty chill dude so I would be surprised if it was directly bout RA but who knows. Funny story…Neil Cassel was in the Cardinals and close to Ryan and friends with Rhett Miller. Years ago the Cardinals were playing in NY, near Rhett and apparently Ryan invited Rhett to the show but when he went backstage Neil told him he better bail as Ryan was freaking out. I hope Ryan stays sober and positive and whatever demons he experienced that made him act as described by these poor women can be tamed.
April 26, 2020 @ 9:21 am
Mandy Moore is not a Musican but an actress and pop singer. No need to mention her on an article involving Grammy award winning Jason Isbell and Lucinda Williams.
April 26, 2020 @ 11:57 am
Um, maybe because she was actually married to the subject in the article?
April 27, 2020 @ 10:54 am
Like her or not, she is a songwriter.
April 25, 2020 @ 9:22 am
Strangers Almanac is still great.
April 25, 2020 @ 10:26 am
That record is so damn good. I think it frustrates him to no end knowing he will never make a better one. He should just be proud he did it.
Also those two Caitlin Carey records never got the credit they deserved. Both are better than 90% of Ryan’s solo stuff. And I am a big Adams fan.
April 25, 2020 @ 2:45 pm
Her duets with Thad Cockrell on the Begonias album are wonderful.
April 25, 2020 @ 3:00 pm
It definitely is though it’s weird how many people on this site seem to view criticizing country music as a far greater sin than being a sex pest. In fact for many people the bad guy in all this is Jason Isbell for having the nerve to care about morality. Like there is seriously more criticism of Isbell for saying I don’t think I should be friends with a guy who I read was accused of sexting underage girls than there is for the guy who has been accused by many different people of being a predator.
But yeah I love a lot of Adams music. Sucks that I have never really heard anybody call him a good person.
April 25, 2020 @ 3:38 pm
That record turned me on to them. I like Faithless Street better. Oh, for the mid 90s.
April 26, 2020 @ 6:15 am
Strangers Almanac is one of my favorite albums of all time. Love it!
April 26, 2020 @ 9:23 am
Deluxe Strangers Almanac and Faithless Street. Just an awesome most underrated band.
April 26, 2020 @ 12:01 pm
One of the best rock n’ roll shows I ever saw @ The Whiskey circa ’97-’98.
April 25, 2020 @ 9:25 am
His ‘cancellation’ has always bothered me just because look, it’s not against the law to be an asshole. He’s an asshole and seems to have treated Mandy Moore pretty shitty. And he seems to be a sketchy dude when it comes to trying to hook up with chicks. But it’s the freakin’ music industry, this stuff is probably so tame compared to the actual stuff going on up top.
And for Isbell to be unaware of Adams’ ‘true colors’ seems hard to believe. The guy almost seemed to get off on being a prick. Online, on stage, in person, he definitely did not hide the fact he was an asshole.
April 25, 2020 @ 9:56 am
Well, he credits Adams with being there for him when he was at his lowest, so I’m guessing there was a good deal of gratitude. And maybe other artists are willing to give their artsy compatriots the benefit of the doubt, although I’m just speculating. I know that when I heard about his role in Isbell’s recovery, I thought that maybe I needed to re-evaluate my opinion of him and that perhaps he wasn’t as much of a self absorbed dick as I thought he was. But then he just continued to piss me off.
Still love those first two Whiskeytown albums.
April 25, 2020 @ 3:10 pm
It’s amazing that from your perspective Jason Isbell is a worse person for saying “finding out this stuff made me reconsider my relationship with abusive men” than the guy who would tell women he would get them record deals if they had sex with him. Luke what is wrong with the morality of the world when saying “we should try to do better” is a greater sin than being a sexual predator?
April 25, 2020 @ 3:39 pm
It’s because Isbelll was totally aware of it.
April 25, 2020 @ 7:33 pm
Much like most of Harvey Weinstein ‘s friends,There is no way Jason Isbell AND his wife didn’t know what was going on.
April 25, 2020 @ 9:26 am
Lucinda’s view seems critical but nuanced and open to forgiveness and understanding of a flawed and troubled human being. Isabel? You already knew the answer to that….
April 25, 2020 @ 10:39 am
The unfortunate truth is that so many men get away with being so shitty to women in local music scenes. Even men who are reported on regularly on this site (not that Trigger would know about this behavior – just pointing out that charisma and surface image can get you pretty far in circles removed from the direct scene). It’s difficult to understand unless you have been a woman in one of these scenes who has witnessed it first hand and had to deal with knowing the truth while seeing the amount of back patting that goes on to cover it up. Most guys band together and overlook it because, at the end of the day, they’re more worried about their own careers. The men and women who are bothered by it and see it for what it is often just drop out of the game entirely because it’s just so sickening and defeating. It’s easier to get away with in your 20s. Those who keep on with the behavior either get outed in their 30s or are able to con a good woman into marrying them and acting as a beard, i.e. “Look at me, I’m just a regular sweet family guy with kids now.” Oh, it happens more than you know.
April 25, 2020 @ 11:14 am
Without naming names, I can attest that this was the case in my city. A prominent “alt country” musician got outed a decade or so later for being a total dirtbag with multiple rape allegations following him around (but no formal charges that I’m aware of). He was tried in the court of public opinion and found guilty, that is to say, his career was cancelled.
April 25, 2020 @ 8:33 pm
Was that the accused child molester who ended up committing suicide?
April 25, 2020 @ 11:20 am
With all due respect Sarah. I don’t think anyone, regardless of viewpoint or political affiliation would argue with “Oh, it happens more than you know.” Is that supposed to be some sort of revelation?
This article is about Lucinda and Jason’s different takes on the situation and how they are reacting to him now. Your argument has been made ad nauseam, as justification for his cancellation. We get it.
April 25, 2020 @ 12:34 pm
I’m sorry, Jake. I suppose my emotions still get the better of me when I read articles like this. But you’re right. I should keep my mouth shut and not offer any comment whatsoever. Who do I think I am anyway?
April 25, 2020 @ 12:39 pm
Everyone’s comments are appreciated here, especially on a topic that perspective is so important to.
April 25, 2020 @ 1:02 pm
My comment was a criticism of your comment, not of you. Why do you feel the need to equate what I said, to “keep your mouth shut?” I’d say the same thing to anyone, and I’m really against the bigotry of low expectations. Sorry if you’re not, and that you feel offended.
April 25, 2020 @ 1:45 pm
Jake, i think I speak for many when I say that your comments on various articles have all been annoying and not in the friendly spirit of Saving Country Music.
SCM has been my favourite place on the internet for many years and the comments section was friendly and educational. But recently there has always been someone who needs to make a snarky, often ad hominem reply.
If I am speaking out of place then I will apologise, but don’t expect me to reply to anything you post in response.
Furthermore to Sarah, thank you for your opinon. I think this is exactly what we need, women should never be afraid to speak out against an unfair culture. Especially in a way that is just highlighting problems and not scapegoating.
Thank you
April 25, 2020 @ 2:23 pm
That’s fair enough, I welcome and appreciate all criticism…nothing is “out of place to me.”
I’ve been commenting for awhile and reading for much longer. Your take on my comments in relation to others is “interesting” but hey, that’s fine. You’re probably also right about more people being annoyed…but that doesn’t change my opinion. Why should it? The world would be a boring (and scary) place if we all had consensus on everything.
April 27, 2020 @ 9:39 am
Hey Jake, wanted to chime in with Blackh4t here. I tend to agree with your opinions more often than not, but I do think your comments tend to have a personal edge that ain’t strictly necessary. Don’t know where you’re from, but Southern courtesy is a dying thing, that I think is worth preserving.
Also, this has nothing to do with this comment thread, but one time back in the day Ryan Adams took the daughter of a much-reviled coach to a date at a bar in Chapel Hill. Long line at the bar, which he attempted to jump by pulling the “I’m Ryan Adams” card. Bartender refused, & he got pissed off and started dumping drinks on the pool table. Cops got called, he tried to run off but the female bar back put him in a headlock till they got there.
April 27, 2020 @ 5:45 pm
Nice comment Cackalack. I agree there was a bit of an edge on that one. I believe in some preservation of dying things myself. Most particularly presumption of innocence and due process. I understand the mans been an asshole, most particularly in his past, and I also do know there is a problem in the industry. But I’m still not willing to lose those 2 things, and I myself will continue to be an asshole about it.
April 28, 2020 @ 8:21 pm
That is most certainly fair.
April 29, 2020 @ 1:56 pm
Nah. It’s not fair. Sometimes there’s enough “evidence” that someone’s behavior can be called out even if a law wasn’t broken and a trial isn’t appropriate. Kavanagh? Maybe not. Adams? More than enough evidence. Being an asshole isn’t illegal, but it shouldn’t be supported. But keep waving the flag of “low-key hatred of women in the guise of due process” if it makes ya feel better, Jake.
April 29, 2020 @ 3:05 pm
I like how you put “evidence” in quotes, and I have to admit you’ve thrown me off a bit with your Kavanaugh comment. Credit for that, Sarah. But due process is important enough to never be a “guise.” I’d also suggest that your slander of someone you know nothing about – all while dictating to other people who they should and should not support – sounds a little authoritarian.
That aside, FWIW – which I’m guessing is not much, I do apologize that my original comment was tone deaf and aggressive.
May 24, 2020 @ 5:47 pm
Sarah,
Has an actual criminal federal charge been put on Ryan Adams yet? Or civilly for that matter? I asked in an earlier post to someone else.
April 25, 2020 @ 10:49 am
Seems like Lucinda understands that, as Flannery O’Connor said, the sacred and the profane run together.
Isbell, on the other hand, seems so woke that he can’t possibly forgive someone. Funny stance for a guy with a daughter named Mercy.
April 25, 2020 @ 11:41 am
Reunions should be titled Lessons in Ironic Virtue Signaling.
April 25, 2020 @ 11:51 am
Nice. Personally I like this title better “The Guy Obama Tried to Warn Us About”
Based on these quotes:
“I get a sense among certain young people on social media that the way of making change is to be as judgemental as possible about other people.”
“This idea of purity and you’re never compromised and you’re always politically woke and all that stuff, you should get over that quickly…the world is messy. There are ambiguities. People who do really good stuff have flaws.”
April 25, 2020 @ 12:34 pm
Just for the record, I didn’t put the Lucinda Williams and Jason Isbell quotes together to contrast them. I understand people might do that and that’s fine, but that wasn’t my intention. As a man and someone people know was close to Ryan Adams, Isbell is in a more difficult situation answering these questions. Some criticized him for not being outspoken enough when the Ryan Adams stuff first came out. Meanwhile Lucinda wrote a song about it, so she’s a little more fair game, and is probably better prepared of how she’s going to respond to the subject.
April 25, 2020 @ 3:42 pm
And a reformed substance abuser.
He’s full-onboard with the woke cancel culture.
Don’t get me wrong. Adams is a scumbag. But Isbell’s quickly becoming insufferable
April 25, 2020 @ 10:53 am
I’m sure Isbell has always treated women perfectly even during his heavy drinking days. Yeah right. Isbell is insufferable these days.
April 25, 2020 @ 1:03 pm
This. He basically took the question and turned it into a “holier than thou, look at me” response.
Entertainers are always silent about this until it comes out in the press that they were associated with said person.
Lucinda’s answer was outstanding.
Isbell’s not so much.
April 26, 2020 @ 12:39 pm
Comparing sexual favors and underaged sexting to treating women imperfectly is quite a leap. For those that find Isbell the bad person in this equation, you have told me everything I need to know about you.
April 26, 2020 @ 2:25 pm
So you think that sexual favors and underage sexting is treating a woman perfectly, Sash?
April 27, 2020 @ 12:02 pm
Think you misread that, mate.
Sash is pretty clearly saying “Anyone calling Ryan Adams’ predatory behavior ‘imperfect’ and comparable to an addict being an asshole is either being disingenuous, is a shitty person, or both.”
April 25, 2020 @ 11:10 am
The accusations of sexting the underage girl are unforgivable for me. If the Times got that right, and as of now while he hasn’t been charged but they also haven’t been sued either, he knew what he was doing was wrong at the time. Using his influence to bed women is the least of his problems. I would say you would only have to attend 2 or 3 of his shows and you probably got to see firsthand he has some issues. So his fans have been looking the other way for quite awhile, and I include myself in that group. It was part of the ride.
April 25, 2020 @ 11:25 am
Lucinda Williams sounds like a grounded, intelligent woman and a true friend. Isbell on the other hand…
Jason Isbell was an absolute train-wreck of a human being that was given a second chance. Ryan Adams helped him get sober so he could realize this opportunity. If you’re a true friend, you don’t write someone off for fucking up or being a fuck up. If that was the case, Isbell would no longer have a career or friends himself.
Williams’ comments regarding “rehabilitation” are spot on. Double standards need to stop, even against powerful, white males, or we’re basically gonna keep running along in the hamster wheel of inequality.
April 25, 2020 @ 11:42 am
I look forward to the next interview, where Isbell tells Williams how she’s supposed to feel about it…
April 25, 2020 @ 12:11 pm
He’s a fan of hers. One might hope this gives him a moment of self reflection, but I somehow doubt it. I’d guess he’s too invested in his self righteousness to do that.
April 27, 2020 @ 12:14 pm
It cracks me up that people are having a meltdown over how “self-righteous” Isbell is for saying “I feel bad for the people he hurt, and it’s on me to make sure I surround myself and my family with friends who don’t do that sort of shit.”
Like, which part is self-righteous?
A) Feeling empathy for the people Adams hurt.
or
B) Wanting to make sure he’s bringing anyone who hurts people into the same circle as his wife and daughter.
Go! I’m really interested in your answer.
April 27, 2020 @ 1:18 pm
Your projection of narrow available responses might imply a rather limited level of understanding…and we could go back and forth on that, but it would be pretty pointless. I’ll leave it at this: This is a subjective subject, and if you don’t see his comments here (especially compared to Lucinda’s), his continually virtuous positioning on twitter, and his throwing his friend under the bus while holding up his nose, as a sense of moral superiority, then fine. We’ll have to agree to disagree. But clearly a lot of us do, and it fits exactly in the definition of the word self-righteous:
“Having or characterized by a certainty, especially an unfounded one, that one is totally correct or morally superior.”
April 27, 2020 @ 2:18 pm
I mean…Isbell’s comment spends more time talking about how the Adams situation made him confront his own flaws than it does “throwing his friend under the bus” for the small offense of spending years hurting women.
Anyway, you never answered the question!
Which was the self-righteous part?
A) “I feel bad for the people whom he hurt.”
Or
B) “I need to do a better job of making sure that I knows who my friends are outside of our own interactions, so I that don’t bring anyone who hurts people into my circle.”
April 25, 2020 @ 12:35 pm
Honestly, speaking from a left of centre perspective, cancel culture needs to be obliterated. Ryan Adams did nothing wrong and all decent people should stand by him.
April 25, 2020 @ 12:45 pm
Well, if he sent a dick pic to a teenager as has been alleged, that ain’t cool. But I do find it alarming that people can’t draw the cancel culture parallels between what happened to the Dixie Chicks and some of the more latest instances. Some people clearly deserve to be cancelled like Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby who’ve been convicted of crimes. And if Ryan Adams was being an asshole, he deserves to be called out for it, and if it hurts his career, he only has himself to blame. But if you take away a person’s right to work or to be able to show their face in public, if anything you’re probably increasing their recidivism rate.
April 25, 2020 @ 2:00 pm
And just for full disclosure – both DRA and the teenager admitted they had never met nor personally seen each other nor disclosed age.
April 25, 2020 @ 2:12 pm
But I do find it alarming that people can’t draw the cancel culture parallels between what happened to the Dixie Chicks and some of the more latest instances.
That goes both ways. I bet there are plenty of long time SCM readers who bemoan cancel culture who think the Dixie Chicks got what was coming to them. Free speech, foreign soil, or something.
April 25, 2020 @ 2:29 pm
Jack W – Difference being… The Chicks used their exposure and platform to publicly voice a position. Fair enough – but then stand and be counted. DRA is being judged subjectively for accusations of personal and “non-public” behaviors.
April 25, 2020 @ 2:48 pm
Case in point.
April 25, 2020 @ 3:07 pm
I agree Jack. The same standard should apply to everyone. We all have the personal choice to not like something or “boycott” it individually. It’s when people go after other people’s livelihoods and try to shut them down and force their will on other people, that things get ugly and authoritarian. We should try to avoid doing that, no matter what “side” we are on.
April 27, 2020 @ 12:05 pm
See…I really don’t see a comparison between “Disagrees with my politics” and “Sends dick pics to children and sabotages the careers of women who won’t sleep with him.”
I have friends well to my political right and friends well to my political left.
I don’t have friends who send dick pics to children and sabotage the careers of women who won’t sleep with them.
April 27, 2020 @ 1:23 pm
“I don’t have friends who send dick pics to children”
And you know this how?
April 27, 2020 @ 1:34 pm
there are definitely a few comments on here that claim isbell had to know about the dick pics and abuse because they are friends.
April 27, 2020 @ 2:02 pm
Fair point! If I have friends who send dick pics to children without my knowing about it, we’re clearly not as close as I think we are…and I’m close friends with quite a few assholes.
I will take the bold stance that if I do find out that one of my friends had sent a dick pic to a child, or sabotaged a woman’s career out of retaliation for rejecting his advances, I’ll stop being friends with him.
Guess that makes me a self-righteous virtue signaler!!!!!!
April 27, 2020 @ 2:06 pm
I don’t think they mentioned the pics specifically but I appreciate the attempt at a recap gentile. I’m not looking for a PA at the moment but I’ll keep you in mind.
Personally I think the “he knew” comments are silly, which is exactly why I’m asking Lester here, how he knows.
April 27, 2020 @ 2:09 pm
Nah that wouldn’t make you a self-righteous virtue signaler. That would be your choice. We all make those choices, including whether or not to talk about it in public or on twitter.
April 27, 2020 @ 2:36 pm
jake – are you not aware that many of your comments (and many on here) are self-righteous virtue signalling and that you’re doing it in a public forum? bemoaning how isbell is a bad friend for not wanting to be friends with adams after this coming to light, as you and others are positioning your moral superiority and saintly ability to forgive, is virtue signalling.
“What kind of person doesn’t see someone who throws their old friend to the wolves, when that friend was there to help them when they needed it, as a bad person?” <– virtue signalling.
April 27, 2020 @ 3:10 pm
That’s actually a half decent and interesting question form you, for a change. I wouldn’t have picked the quote in which I’m basically mimicking someone else’s comment, but hey…you’re trying. To your point though. You can find some similarities. And yes, if I say I like an album …is that virtue signaling? Of course to some degree, everyone does it and we could get into a philosophical discussion about that, there are some similarities. Here are the differences: 1) He’s basically made a it into his brand. I haven’t. Several of his fans, people who say they share his politics, have said he’s insufferable. Obviously many people agree. 2) He benefits from it. I don’t. 3) I’d consider friendship and some sort of loyalty a value, not a public virtue. Is the fact that Ive spoken out for it virtue signaling? Sure. But it’s not about some public stance or moral high ground. Its about honoring someone who saved your ass. 4) He goes out of his way to find random topics on his twitter account to make examples of his virtue. I don’t.
I could go on,, but sure “you got me.” The point is the dude has become known for it. Other people who share the same politics have not. Why is that? Lucinda is highly political on her new album. Why does it sound Genuine? Why isn’t she accused of virtue signaling? Why is it Jason? And why do so many people agree? In the end maybe it’s just a feeling….that many people seem to share, one that you don’t understand.
April 27, 2020 @ 6:11 pm
in what world would saying you like an album be virtue signaling?
1. yes, you’re definitely going for a much different brand, that much is clear.
2. what does he benefit from it?
3. being a good friend would be a virtue, so i’m not sure what sort of semantic argument you’re trying to make.
4. being asked a question and answering it is not seeking our topics to weigh in on.
finally, if you hop over to other music sites, take stereogum, you’ll find that they have very different feelings on isbell. in fact i haven’t seen them repeated en masse like they have been here.
April 27, 2020 @ 8:31 pm
in what world would saying you like an album be virtue signaling? **Yes, the point of not talking about this too philopsically***
1. yes, you’re definitely going for a much different brand, that much is clear. ***HAHA good one****
2. what does he benefit from it? ***Honestly you don’t get this one??****
3. being a good friend would be a virtue, so i’m not sure what sort of semantic argument you’re trying to make.****OK, fair enough, not worth getting into semantics***
4. being asked a question and answering it is not seeking our topics to weigh in on. ****AND? – this is getting pointless****
finally, if you hop over to other music sites, take stereogum, you’ll find that they have very different feelings on isbell. in fact i haven’t seen them repeated en masse like they have been here. ***YES I’m very aware that he’s a hero to the fragile. AND??****
***It’s not really worth going over this anymore. If you don’t get it, you don’t get it. You’re still gonna get triggered by him being called a virtue signaler and people are still gonna get trigged by him being a preachy baby. The world will keep on spinning****
April 28, 2020 @ 1:26 am
Bahahaha
I thoroughly enjoy the deep, deep irony of you calling Isbell a “hero to the fragile” in a thread within which you’ve spent dozens of comments, over multiple days, melting down about his choice to stop being friends with Ryan Adams, due to Adams’ having been credibly accused by several women of sexual misconduct.
The funniest part is your refusal to discuss Isbell’s comments on their merits, using facts and logic, and instead insisting on coloring every interpretation of them with your own fee fees about Isbell’s public persona…while simultaneously whining about how everyone else is “triggered.”
Much like CountryKnight, you’ve reached the point where I honestly wonder if this is some sort of performance art, parodying the type of snowflake who gets triggered and has a meltdown any time an artist is a dick on Twitter.
I mean, no one real could so utterly lack any sort of self-awareness or capacity for critical thought…right?
April 28, 2020 @ 7:56 am
You use nothing but flawed inductive reasoning and false equivalencies. Bottom line is, where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Enough people are able to understand the exact same thing, and it triggers you enough to come to a country music website, where I never see you comment on anything else, just to defend your bois. Keep it up, it’s entertaining, in a weird way. Keep talking about logic too, that’s even funnier. Going to have to leave it at this, but I’m sure you’ll be back when the review of Reiunions comes out, see you then.
April 27, 2020 @ 9:18 am
Not a fan of cancel culture here. But, anyone from central NC can provide you with a long long list of wrong things that Ryan Adams has done. There’s a reason he don’t come back.
April 25, 2020 @ 12:57 pm
jason isbell – says anything
saving country music community – fuck jason isbell
April 25, 2020 @ 1:30 pm
I fixed it for you:
jason isbell – says his usual self righteous preachy shit, while turning his back on the friend who helped him turn his own life around.
some people on the saving country music website– fuck that noise
thegentile – let me try to say something clever in defense of my virtuous boi
April 25, 2020 @ 2:04 pm
If he’s ever said anything, I couldn’t hear it over his preaching.
April 25, 2020 @ 2:33 pm
thegentile,
I’m getting frustrated with people painting the Saving Country Music community with a broad brush. You’re a part of this community. Jason Isbell fans are part of this community. When you broach contentious political subjects like Jason Isbell has, people are going to react, and that’s part of the free speech paradigm. But I’m seeing plenty of opinions and perspectives featured here in good discussions. It’s just as often comments like yours turn these comments sections ugly as it is people you disagree with. Let’s all try to work to respect each other even when we disagree, as opposed to stereotyping what kind of person someone is.
April 25, 2020 @ 5:37 pm
oh please. first, i didn’t say anything political. what he said is not a political statement. second, i don’t know why you keep pretending/denying that a majority of the community is not on the right side of the spectrum. if your this far in the dark, you aren’t reading the comments. if you were to issue a demographic survey here, i bet more than 80% of the readership falls to the right (and beyond).
April 25, 2020 @ 6:43 pm
also i’d like to point out the irony of people willing to forgive/separate the art from the artist for ryan adams for being a constant ass, a horrible emotionally abusive spouse, and someone who has allegedly sexted with an underage girl, among other things, but not do the same for jason isbell our sturgill simpson. what’s the difference? their political stance? and it’s not as if adams has been remorseful about any of this.
for the record, i so listen to ryan adams. i’m able to separate the art.
April 25, 2020 @ 7:44 pm
“their political stance?”
They all seem pretty aligned politically, so I’m not sure what you’re talking about. Ryan has bashed Trump as much as Sturgill, if not more. Lucinda also bashes him on her new album. They’re 2 artists speaking from their hearts. Your other 2 bois, especially Jason, are whiny, condescending and self righteous about it. It’s distracting and annoying. Also, I know that correlation does not necessarily mean causation….but both of their music starting going downhill the more they started acting like down looking snobs.
April 27, 2020 @ 12:18 pm
Hey now, there’s a pretty clear difference between Ryan Adams and folks like Isbell and Sturgill Simpson.
All Ryan Adams did is systematically hurt women.
Isbell and Sturgill hurt this crowd’s feelings by being mean on Twitter.
I mean, what do you think matters more?
April 25, 2020 @ 1:08 pm
I still like him and still listen to him. All these accusations came out at the same time by women who want to be seen as strong independent women just saying “oh it happened to #METOO”. Should he have been talking to that girl? No but everyone makes mistakes and she told him she was 18
April 25, 2020 @ 1:30 pm
One of the things that got to me the most was how to deal with the Ryan Adams situation as a fan, a long-time fan. It made me re-think some of those classic DRA songs like “Come Pick Me Up” and ” Call Me On Your Way Back Home,” “Please Do Not Let Me Go,” and so many other songs. Were those songs a veiled message about him trying to justify shitty behavior? Was there some weird douchery under those lyrics. I had to shelve his albums for a bit and I’ve yet to go back to them. BUT, is this any worse that things that The Rolling Stones or Led Zeppelin did to objectify and mistreat women back in the day? It’s just hard to justify. By continuing to listen to these artists/records condoning that behavior? By NOT listening, are we really standing up to that type of behavior. I don’t know. I’m nowhere close to an answer.
April 25, 2020 @ 6:50 pm
I used to have this problem with Conway Twitty! In real life he was a perfect gentleman (as far as I’m aware) but his songs: tight-fitting jeans, already loved you in my mind, never been this far before, honky tonk angel are all quite creepy if you overanalyze them! But then I thought well it’s just a story and it all depends on how you imagine the story unfolding in your head- whether you imagine it as misogynistic or romantic (I think Conway was aiming for romantic!) So I just enjoy the songs and don’t overanalyze them! I wouldn’t take a stand against a song unless it’s directly sexist and you can’t really have any other interpretation. Also I think you shouldn’t think too much about what the writers thought process was when he wrote the song because you can’t know what someone else is thinking so just enjoy your interpretation of the song!
April 25, 2020 @ 9:52 pm
Conway’s songs were of their time, rife with pick-up lines that seem smarmy to people who were not part of the audience. Rank cheating songs, even by “wholesome” artists like Bill Anderson and his female duet partners were the rage.
Conway usually tried to play the good guy and usually gave himself an “out” in the lyrics. “Tight Fitting Jeans” starts out like it’s going R-Rated, but ends up G-rated. Even in “You’ve Never Been This Far Before,”–maybe his most controversial song–there’s one line in the middle of the song–“Well I don’t know and I don’t care
What made you tell him you don’t love him anymore”–that gave him plausible deniability. Conway always hung on that line and insisted that the song was about the singer pursuing a mature woman on the rebound, not a young virgin, as the rest of the lyrics seem to suggest.
April 26, 2020 @ 6:14 am
Yes, some Conway Twitty songs have pick-up lines but it’s up to your imagination whether you consider them smarmy or not! In my opinion “Tight Fitting Jeans” and “You’ve Never Been This Far Before” are romantic and respectful – it’s up to your interpretation whether you find them sincere or insincere. My point is that you can’t just label a song as misogynistic when it all depends on how you read between the lines. Of course Conway Twitty wrote/chose some songs that he knew COULD be taken the wrong way – but I don’t think that should mean that they ARE taken the wrong way.
As for the cheating songs- I haven’t really listened to Bill Anderson much before but I listened to “Sometimes” with Mary Lou Turner and thought it was great! I also love the Conway Twitty cheating songs “Georgia Keeps Pulling On My Ring”, “Linda On My Mind” and “There’s A Honky Tonk Angel.” Basically I just think they’re funny as the male (and female in “Sometimes”) narrators of the songs have terrible selfish morals – but you can relate with them in a way! It’s fun to imagine yourself in a cheating situation even if you don’t consciously admit that to yourself! I see why many people would find them ‘rank’ and encouraging immoral behaviour – but I love them because it’s telling a complex and interesting story in the view point of an imperfect person. It’s not just a shallow song – he or she cheated on me and I’m totally in the right and they’re totally in the wrong. Of course the narrator shouldn’t be celebrated for being so selfish but I like these sort of songs because they’re different and funny! I think these cheating songs are quite unique in country music and we shouldn’t just discard them because in modern society we can’t even imagine ourselves as not being perfect! and we can’t have any sense of irony/humour!
It really annoys me that Conway Twitty is considered a ‘product of his time’ based on a few of his songs. If you don’t agree with those songs that’s fine but he had something like 50 number ones and most of his songs are not controversial. Waylon Jennings, Willie Nelson and Johnny Cash sung a few songs that COULD be considered misogynistic and many songs that were deliberately controversial. “Luckenbach Texas”, “Cedartown, Georgia” (Well murder ballads is another thing to debate!), “Cocaine Blues.”. I bet you could
find some arguement (however small) in every Waylon Jennings song to say it’s misogynistic. I can’t believe they left out Conway Twitty from the Ken Burns documentary!
So if you consider Conway Twitty as distasteful and insincere shouldn’t you consider the Outlaws as distasteful and insincere? In my opinion the Outlaws don’t get unfairly judged whilst Conway Twitty does!
April 26, 2020 @ 8:55 am
What’s controversial (or close to the edge or whatever) about the lyrics of “Luckenbach, Texas?”
April 26, 2020 @ 9:52 am
The only two things in life
That make it worth livin’
Is guitars that tune good
And firm feelin’ women
It’s judging women on their physique. But it’s not sexist as nowhere does he say that he doesn’t respect women as intelligent people. You can judge women on their looks but that doesn’t mean you disrespect their opinions, thoughts and feelings! I think you shouldn’t label something as misogynistic/sexist unless it is actually saying women are inferior – rather than labelling something misogynistic because it might imply women are inferior in one very specific interpretation.
April 25, 2020 @ 1:50 pm
I have followed this story closely and I repeat precisely what I said when this broke – precisely what offense did DRA commit? I see nothing here other than the feelings of disgruntled, offended and perhaps jilted women. But if we use this standard to banish artists – (for one example) we would never have had the Rolling Stones….
April 25, 2020 @ 6:50 pm
Love this point. I’ve always thought that if we look too closely at any of our heros (musicians, artists, writers, anyone…)we’re gonna find flaws, some of them fatal. I’ve heard ” love the work despite the artist” and I think there’s something to that.
I love Lucinda because she puts her flaws right there in her songs.
And btw just for laughs- I always mix up Ryan Adams with Brian Adams. Took me a minute to figure what the article was saying.
April 26, 2020 @ 10:32 am
@Cathe–That is too funny. I’m late to this thread, I have not followed this story at all, but all the time I’m seeing the name Ryan Adams, I’m thinking they’re talking about the singer who had a monster hit CD, with a cover where he’s yelling into a megaphone, that used to be stacked up on tables at Tower Records next to Garth Brooks’ “Ropin’ the Wind.”
April 25, 2020 @ 1:59 pm
He helps isbell get sober, then isbell casts him aside because he likes to chase tail. Good story. They’re both a**holes in my opinion for many different reasons. But both of these guys early works are still excellent. Gotta give Where credit is due.
April 27, 2020 @ 12:22 pm
“Isbell’s stopped being friends with a guy because he was credibly accused by multiple women of sexual misconduct? WHAT AN ASSHOLE!” is…certainly a take.
April 28, 2020 @ 5:45 am
they are both virtue signaling pricks who live in glass houses.
April 25, 2020 @ 2:03 pm
My inital response was to contrast the 2 responses and yes, Lucinda comes off intelligent and Isbell a woke shallow shell.
But really what can he say? If he said the same as lucinda then he’s just doing the typical ‘guys protecting each other’ thing and it would look bad.
No, on second thoughts, to make this about how you have to re-evaluate what it means to be a friend is possibly the best road out of a bad bunch.
Incidentally, i don’t the exact details of the sexting allegation but the comments seem to indicate she was almost legal. Its strange that people over here in Australia have condemned him for it, when over here the age of consent is 16, so by our standards he’s innocent? Not sure how that works. Maybe the 17 year old girls here are somehow different??? Because surely we couldn’t admit to a blurry line on a pedophilia allegation.
Anyway, I never liked the guy. I was told by various women that this is because I’m too much of a right wing redneck. Somewhat ironic.
April 25, 2020 @ 2:57 pm
Here’s something I’d like to know about this and cancel culture in general. What percentage of his fans actually want him cancelled? Via social media and in other places, he’s still very much loved by a lot of people. Is it really the consensus that he should be cancelled or are we being held hostage by a small but loud minority of angry twitter users, activist journalists, and peers who are too cowardly to face the circular firing squad? Not everyone is afraid though. Just as examples: Jesse Malin isn’t. Catherine Popper Isn’t. People like this inspire me. People who are afraid to stand up, or are too willing to throw their friends to the wolves, keep the circular firing squad in place and the torches lit.
April 25, 2020 @ 3:13 pm
I don’t know man but as a guy who has bought physical copies of five Ryan Adams albums I won’t give him any more of my money. So yeah for me personally, as someone whose favorite artist in high school was Ryan Adams, I no longer want to financially support him. Can’t speak for how many other genuine fans of his feel the same way.
April 25, 2020 @ 3:43 pm
Fair enough, that’s obviously your choice. I guess the only way to know would be for him to finally put out his 3 records and announce a tour…I mean, yeah…when this other shit storm passes. Hopefully the cancel mob will allow other people the privilege of their own personal choices as well.
April 27, 2020 @ 12:25 pm
I don’t think Ryan Adams has even been “Cancelled,” per se.
There’s just a greater awareness of his being a shitty person than there was previously.
April 27, 2020 @ 1:47 pm
You seem to struggle with definitions.
His album release: Cancelled
His tour: Cancelled
Hie endorsements with multiple companies: Cancelled
But maybe you’re right….maybe he wasn’t cancelled, per se.
April 27, 2020 @ 2:09 pm
Hm, fair point.
I still think he’ll be fine, though. All he did was spend years using his position of power to prey on women – it’s not like he was mean on Twitter or anything!!!
April 27, 2020 @ 2:21 pm
One’s obviously worse than the other, but why do we have to think so dialectically? Why does it have to always be:
“The Adams takedown follows the Times’ #MeToo model: allegations are presented as unquestionable truths, accusers are presented as infallible, and the target is presented as a monster.”
That’s from an article on a website your “far more left than you” friends might enjoy.
April 25, 2020 @ 3:37 pm
OMG. Lucinda and Jason Isbell are defending him?
April 27, 2020 @ 2:40 pm
no, they aren’t.
April 25, 2020 @ 3:53 pm
I could give a shit less what people do in their free time. If music touches me, then it touches me. Strangers Almanac, Faithless Street – Gems. Those three gorgeous albums he did with the Cardinals left me completely shook – Jacksonville City Nights, 29 and the remarkable Cold Roses. Those three albums came out when I was 19 and opened up a floodgate of astonishing music that has shaped my tastes to this day. I pray to god he puts out more music, he’s a rare talent.
April 25, 2020 @ 3:58 pm
Very little of what came out in that NY times article was new. Phoebe Bridgers already put out a single about their relationship 2 years ago. So for Isbell to claim he was unaware is simply not believable. The only thing in that story that were damning was the underage girl who Ryan claims he didn’t know she was underage when they texted.
April 25, 2020 @ 5:40 pm
As a fan of Ryan Adams music I must say i wasn’t surprised at all when that article came out. If you’ve read comments from other people or just looked at his own posts and actions you could have seen this coming. Also I don’t know anyone in the Raleigh music scene from that time who has a good thing to say about him. Not wishing for the guys career to be over but its been known he’s a POS for years.
April 25, 2020 @ 5:53 pm
I love the songs that Ryan Adams writes. I will continue to listen to his music. I have no intentions of being his friend. Don’t want to meet him. I just want to listen to his music. This world has so many Aholes in it And hearing that he’s one too is no surprise. Hell the biggest Ahole is Our President, in my opinion. So keep writing this songs that touch my heart and soul and I’ll keep buying them. Peace
April 26, 2020 @ 6:49 am
This is a great perspective CDI. As someone who has made mistakes (not the type of the Me Too movement but significant other types that I regret and struggled to put behind me, thank you for your reasonableness and humility.
God doesn’t make perfect humans. We are all flawed. (Even if you reject the notion of God, try to name an adult who is perfect. You can’t. Their image may be perfect but everyone has a dark side and is capable of serious errors).
Artists are arguably if not actually more eccentric and esoteric than average which can make them (us) harder to relate to and more likely to not fit a traditional mold. (RA certainly doesnt).
It doesn’t mean you condone anyone’s harm or harassment to forgive them.
If anyone believes that mistakes and offenses against others must permanently define a person or their legacy, they are heartless, pious, and frankly, just plain wrong.
Learn to forgive. In Christianity, God loves us all- sinners, prisoners, and pricks included. He will forgive anything. Which means that in my religion everyone deserves a second chance. This makes rational sense because personal redemption, love, and the ability to make meaningful even historic contributions to mankind or ones community, family, etc is just a decision and effort away. This has been proven millions of times in history- “bad guys” who went on to do great and beautiful good later in life. This happens because there is intrinsic potential, value, and even morsels of perfectness in everyone whether they choose let those out to shine or not.
Don’t get me wrong, justice is still very important. Punishment is fair and due for many, but not permanent condemnation, rejection, or banishment.
We need to have compassion and allow and encourage offenders, prisoners, and others who have made mistakes to rehabilitate and turn the page. Otherwise, we are saying we don’t want the future inspring brilliance and gifts that these (all) people are capable of which is clearly the wrong answer if you look at history objectively. This also says that if YOU make a mistake, you are worthless and unworthy of love, opportunity, or a second chance which thankfully is also total bull$hit (or I’d be in the human trash heap too instead of loving others and contributing positivity to the world when I can.)
April 25, 2020 @ 6:22 pm
I don’t care in the least, but it is predictable that the gelding Isbell would have an incredibly lachrymose, weak, PC, response to the event.
It wasn’t reported, but immediately after these comments, Isbell did a spinning class, a bit of yoga, nibbled on a vegan burrito and Venmo’d one Bitcoin to Planned Parenthood.
The most telling thing is that a soy cuck like Isbell would throw a “good friend” under the bus. Why not just stay silent? Accepting all the BS that comes with being “sober,” how could you ever do this to a person who is so responsible for your sobriety?
April 25, 2020 @ 6:28 pm
I’m not the same Chris who has posted above.
I don’t know much about Ryan and had forgotten about his fall from grace last year.
As someone who’s been clean and sober for several decades, I sure hope he didn’t engage in sexual abuse since he’s been sober, but I’ll bet it does.
This kind of behavior is a dirty little secret in the entertainment industry and has been forever.
I sure love Lucinda, though.
Kudos for bringing a gentle approach (and I’ll bet a great song) to the circumstance.
Can’t wait to hear her soon.
And, yeah, Jason is insufferable.
April 25, 2020 @ 6:57 pm
Interesting that Adams is a pariah but fans have no problem with stars like Mick Jagger or Jimmy Page or (insert rock star name here) who have done much worse things to women. Adams never wrote a song like Brown Sugar although he did a cover on piano which accented the lyrics. He has always seemed like a guy who just never matured personally although some of his music is very mature. I loved Whiskeytown and enjoy a majority of his solo work. The last time I saw him around 2 years ago here in New Orleans at The Orpheum may have been the best show I ever seen him do.
April 25, 2020 @ 10:56 pm
I don’t care… I still love “Summer Of 69”.
April 25, 2020 @ 11:01 pm
I must have missed the trial and conviction of Mr. Adams of all the NYTimes stated. Also missed the proof that he exposed himself to a young person.
You really wanna bloe your mind? Go look at the divorce degree and how that was handled…… I’ll wait
I’m not saying he’s a great guy , I once was at a concert where he got mad at the lights guy and quit after 5 songs maybe. I just am so tired of reading how is some deviant based on an ACCUSATION. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
April 26, 2020 @ 12:47 am
I’m sorry, Ryan, but you are your worse enemy. I have very much enjoyed and lauded your music writing, vocal talents, and guitar musicianship to hundreds of others, only to see that washed away from your completely tone-deaf actions. You’re going to block me for a hash tag about No Depression that was intended to be helpful and completely RELEVANT to your cause? Fuck you, and the $ I spent on all your shows from 1990s to 2018. You completely suck based alone on how you treat the very fans that once adored you. GFYS, and enjoy being completely irrelevant to the here and now.
F. Patrick (yeah, that guy who used to really like you, you complete fraud.)
April 26, 2020 @ 12:50 am
I always appreciated Ryan Adams music, especially with the Cardinals. I was extremely impressed with lead guitarist Neal Casal and how much he added to that band. In all the interviews of Ryan Adams he never gave any mention to this amazing back-up band. Seemed selfish. Then, in some youtube videos you can hear Ryan yelling out, cursing, etc. Very uncool. Then, when Neal Casal killed himself, I didn’t read one kind word from Ryan. I looked for it, but never found it. Ryan Adams has amazing talents but he seems to be a bit of a dick. I hope I’m wrong.
April 26, 2020 @ 7:07 am
Is this a kind word?
I believe there are or were more. I remember he said a lot when he died.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4WOnr6pIS4/?igshid=1qt5vqjzqb1m2
April 26, 2020 @ 8:01 am
https://www.instagram.com/p/B1qKqo7pH3b/
April 26, 2020 @ 4:35 am
I never saw the appeal of his music. He really is a shitty singer. The world is better off for him being canceled.
April 26, 2020 @ 4:58 am
Ryan Adams is an asshole. Jason Isbell is an asshole. Two different types of assholes but both assholes.
Can you imagine if the 60s-80s rock stars were around durning cancel culture and social media?
I’ll be jamming to Ryan Adams and Whiskeytown today. Thanks for the inspiration. Ironic or not “A Kiss Before I Go” is a borderline god tier country song.
April 26, 2020 @ 7:25 am
Pulled into the station
And they’re playing Waylon Jennings
When you’re driving through so late at night
You’ll see the lights are blinding
Yeah, and I’ll be thinking of you
Home, my baby’s going home
My baby’s going home
Tomorrow
Demolition was a good country album.
April 26, 2020 @ 5:13 am
Everyone here has an opinion about what should be considered private if they were talking about you. The sexting is fair game although the FBI declined to bring charges. I had no idea until I saw this that he was on the outs with the industry and I still don’t care. Hollywood eats their own and so does Nashville
April 26, 2020 @ 5:14 am
As a Libertarian Southerner who has been a fan of Isbell since he was the “drunk kid in the DBT’s” I will say this. I have always loved his songwriting(and for those that came late to the party) he was writing political songs since his start with the DBT’s. I would say he has fallen into that trap he wrote about in “Relatively Easy”; “Is your brother on a church kick?/seems like just a different kind of dope sick”… I think more people need to consider the advice from Mr. Obama referenced above. And for the record; I have always thought Adams was a trainwreck but a songwriter on par with Mr. Isbell. Through history a lot of writers, literature and lyrical both have been troubled souls. Are we going to quit listening to/covering Steve Earle and TVZ because they were/are grating personalities. And one last note on Adams, show me a conviction before pronouncing him guilty of an actual crime.
April 26, 2020 @ 5:30 am
I never saw the appeal of his music. He really is a shitty singer. The world is better off without him in the mix.
May 1, 2020 @ 5:10 am
Saying the same thing twice doesn’t make it more impactful or accurate (but it does clog up the comments section and waste peoples’ time).
April 26, 2020 @ 5:35 am
Isbell is just trying to cover his own ass. Lucinda is trying to get publicity for her album. I am sick of this crap, I don’t care. Let the law deal with Adams. Just as much as men have taken advantage of women, women have taken advantage of men. Watch the secret to a happy ending, there ain’t no way isbell never behaved badly drinking like that and doing drugs, taking advantage of his position, nothing.
April 26, 2020 @ 10:43 am
“Isbell is just trying to cover his own ass.”
Why do we even put faith in what Jason has said. Though we can judge him for throwing his friend who helped him under the bus(and I do), I actually do have some sympathy for his situation and it brings into question what the point of even asking him is. If you go with a camera crew to Cuba and ask someone in public, what they think of Castro or communism, you’re probably going to get one answer. How much faith do we put in the honesty of that answer? How does it compare to a Cuban American’s answer – and why the difference?
Though the stakes aren’t exactly the same, the consequences of saying the “wrong” thing are:
-Loss of income
-Public shaming
-Potential private consequences from his family or inner circle
….so why do we actually give it that much stock? And perhaps even more interesting: Even if he believes what he’s saying, consciously…how much do the pressures from the above, might a psychologist say shapes his view, uncounsiosly. I could have probably said all of this simply with:
You can’t trust what anyone says when they have a gun to their head. Cancel culture kills the credibility of more than just the cancelled.
April 26, 2020 @ 6:12 am
I’ve been boycotting DRA for 3 albums now. The throwbacks to 80s heartland rock and bland material made it pretty easy.
May 2, 2020 @ 12:38 pm
The last unambiguously good thing Ryan Adams did was Cardinology. After that, it’s been one botched Springsteen (or Mellencamp, or whoever) cloning after another. Contrary to certain pronouncements that had at given times issued from his behind, Adams without a country flavor is a middle-of-the-road there-ain’t-that-much-to-write-home-about, a sexting scandal waiting to happen. He needs country music as much, and more, as once upon a time country music needed him.
April 26, 2020 @ 7:20 am
Justified or not, I can’t think of a better guy to get canceled. All my friends loved Whiskeytown and all the incarnations of Adams and by default I was drug to too many shows. One in 05 at Mr. Smalls in Pittsburgh with the Cardinals really stands out. It started fine, then by the end he couldn’t finish a song without berating the sound guy in midstream. He was yelling at the people in the bar side of the club for making noise and having the NBA playoff game on the TV. He was yelling at the band mates. We left early. I didn’t have too much invested in the show, but I really fell bad for my friends today since I went through something similar with The Turnpikes in 2017.
I haven’t seen him in concert since 07 and I don’t miss having to attend his theatrics. Honestly, what goes around comes around.
I really haven’t been a fan of Lucinda since 08 either. And I was a hug fan of hers’. Her stuff just started sounding uninspired.
April 26, 2020 @ 7:21 am
I’m in favor of second chances, but only if the perpetrator acknowledges and attempts to atone for their actions. Unfortunately, usually, the way these go is to have someone deny everything, and wait for people to just forget.
April 26, 2020 @ 8:04 am
Aside from the allegations of sexting a minor, who Ryan NEVER met in person, who continuously lied about her age- there is nothing to see here.
The women in the article had CONSENSUAL relationships with him, one being married to him. Mandy Moore claims he stalled her music career but let’s be real here, she was much more popular than him at the time (for acting) and her music career was a joke. Is anyone here running out and buying her new album? Ryan has more musical talent in his pinky than she will ever have and that’s just an undeniable fact. Why did she wait until years after their divorce, after publicly supporting him, to join in on this article? Could it be because she was working on an album? She loves to talk about how happy she is now and how happily married she is yet she really seemed to ride this train for as long as she could.
The more believable story to me is Phoebe Bridgers, who by the way is an incredible talent. But again, they had a consensual relationship. I am 8 months older than Ryan and I have zero interest in dating someone half my age but I’m also not living the lifestyle of a musician. No one bats an eye when Cher or Madonna date men in their 20’s but Ryan is scum for dating someone younger. Such a double standard. And another point is he did release one of Phoebe’s albums on his label, he even really liked the song she wrote about him. It was a dysfunctional relationship, end of story.
Jason Isbell didn’t hesitate to throw Ryan under the bus and now says he needs to really know the people he considers a friend but I have a hard time believing that everyone copping out with a similar story wasn’t in-the-know.
This is America where people are supposed to be presumed innocent until FACTS prove otherwise but Ryan was canceled without hesitation. Decades of work gone. Decades of feeding our souls with songs about how dysfunctional his life and relationships were reduced to nothing. As a diehard fan I’ve always said he seemed like an immature jerk, but his music speaks to me on a level that no one else even comes close to so I will continue to be a fan and hope that somehow, someday, he will be able to overcome this and get back to doing what he was meant to do.
April 26, 2020 @ 9:02 am
A woman after my own heart. The double standards are obvious but somehow we are supposed to forget about that. Activists would like us to forget things we all know. Unless we were living under a rock, we all knew girls who wanted to, and did date college or older guys, in high school. We all knew girls with fake IDs that went clubbing or to bars to meet older guys. We all knew girls who lied about their age. We might have laughed at the comedy of the situation in movies like Transpoting. We all know that shallow people are drawn to celebrities and often use them for their own gain. We know it’s of mutual benefit. But now the sanctimonious woke police would like us to forget what we know. This is the very definition of Doublethink in 1984.
April 26, 2020 @ 12:48 pm
Hi Ryan!
April 26, 2020 @ 2:10 pm
Lots of negative feedback it seems. I admire both of them for seeing the human side of a friend and realizing that they fell short of fulfilling their roles as his “friend”.
April 26, 2020 @ 3:22 pm
i think my number one takeway is that i want the unknown chick to text me a copy of her license before i sext her. theoretically i have seen lots of omegle pron where the guy asks how old and the answer is always “18”. methinks people need to start carding before the pics.
i guess i am a horrible person. i don’t think it is that big a deal to trade sex for a leg up in the industry. it is like the pope told me one time, gas grass or ass, nobody rides for free. no one is forcing anyone to have sex. that is the price, you do not have to pay it. get famous based on your talent. i want to see motley crue and the roadie wants a hummer to get access, i guess i don’t want to meet motley crue that badly.
April 26, 2020 @ 3:42 pm
Whose to say these women were not taking advantage of him? I have seen this a bunch in corporate America to get ahead.
The underage thing bothers me but apparently the girl said she was 18.
Adams is a flawed human being for sure but I’m sure many of these women were throwing themselves at him.
April 27, 2020 @ 7:41 am
both of these dudes are huge hypocrites. Just like self destructive behavior often times goes hand in hand with artistic talent, so does narcissism and lack of self awareness. They are both guilty of virtue signalling while having skeletons in their closets that Michael Jackson would be jealous of.
April 27, 2020 @ 7:52 am
If you are a female musician who has sex with Ryan Adam’s to further your career, you are just as much to blame. If you have to wear skimpy clothing to further your career or garner interest you are just as much to blame.
April 27, 2020 @ 9:30 am
I’m not sure that is the nature of the accusation. The accusation is that Ryan Adams offered to help women with their career, and then turned around and “pursued them sexually.” A LOT of gray here, but two people having consensual sex is one thing. A woman being harassed against her will is another.
April 27, 2020 @ 12:29 pm
And what if you refuse to have sex with him after he offers to “help your career” and he responded by sabotaging you?
…got a feeling I’m gonna hear crickets, here.
April 27, 2020 @ 9:26 am
If Ryan did what he did, that’s not cool. He doesn’t seem to be trying to make up for it much since. But, I can’t see turning completely on a friend who helped me get sober. You can say he messed up with some bad choices, but that says a lot about Isbell as a friend.
BTW, can anyone understand the lyrics on the new Lucinda record? Second album in a row
like this. Thanks for letting me know what one of the songs was about ; )
April 27, 2020 @ 9:41 am
Her drawl is getting stronger for sure. Don’t know if it’s due to age or what, but I personally like it because I like voices with character. I’ll admit I sometimes have to supplement with reading of the lyrics. She talked about it in an interview but I can’t remember what she said, I just remember she acknowledged it.
April 27, 2020 @ 10:12 am
I like worn in voices too. I wish it was just a touch more clear. She has so many great lines, I hate to miss out!
April 27, 2020 @ 1:18 pm
Might wanna add Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis and Pete Townsend to that list.. Conway Twitty and his song about going too far is a reflection of the era. Other than his last bitch of a wife. Never really heard a negative thing about him.
April 27, 2020 @ 5:21 pm
Oh, so now it’s a mental illness.
April 27, 2020 @ 5:56 pm
“The Times took the accusations of former jilted lovers and used it to destroy Ryan’s life and livelihood.” This is exactly what happened. All these women had the same beef with Ryan, as did Mandy Moore; they all thought Ryan was going to help them with their careers, or in Moore’s case, add some edge and authenticity to her music (something she’s been desperately trying to do herself for years).
April 28, 2020 @ 1:15 am
And then, after using that offer to ingratiate himself, he tried to use his power within the industry to coerce them into having sex with him.
Poor guy! He’s clearly the REAL victim here!
April 28, 2020 @ 5:02 pm
What Adams, Isbell, and Williams are missing is that being able to write songs means jack squat.
A: I was a low-class creep with another low-class creep, but aren’t we all? And I wrote some critically-acclaimed blog posts.
B: We were having tough times together brother, but I’ll be more careful about fraternizing with creeps like you in the future now that I’m a successful blogger.
C: Weren’t we all creeps, sometime? But we write critically-acclaimed blog posts, and being a creep doesn’t mean you can’t write critically-acclaimed blog posts, right? I think we should all forgive ourselves and go back to writing critically-acclaimed blog posts.
They’re beclowning themselves.
April 29, 2020 @ 8:04 pm
Jason can’t write as well as Ryan I think it bothers him.
November 15, 2020 @ 6:33 pm
Maybe Jason grew up, or is trying to.
May 17, 2021 @ 6:37 pm
The outcome of the investigation certainly made quite a few of the resident SJWs here look silly.
March 22, 2022 @ 10:50 am
Welp, none of this aged well here in 2022. I only recently became fans of all of these musicians, most especially of Ryan Adams’ music. No idea about all this shit that went down in 2019 until I started reading about them both and sure seems like Isbell turned his back on his friend. That same friend that helped HIM get up out of the gutter. Not good.
Meanwhile, DRA cleared by FBI of under-age thing and 3 years later career still suffering. From looking at his social media, sure seems like the guy is trying to get his mental & physical health in a good place along with sobriety. Everyone deserves a second chance.
Do people really not understand addiction/alcoholism and how MUCH that impacts one’s behavior and treatment of others? they are the most selfish, self-centered, tunnel vision people ever! Not too mention his mental health issues that he was obviously treating with drugs & alcohol ALL HIS LIFE. It doesn’t excuse him or give him license to treat people the way he did but it definitely explains a lot of it. The “ghosting”, flaking out, short temper, lack of follow-through on commitments & promises made. Plus it sounds like he did that not just to these women but to his fellow musicians(male & female) as well as friends. Just one messed up dude.
As a woman, I think his cancellation went too far with MeToo. Shitty boyfriend, husband, friend and probably an asshole too, but not a rapist by any means and not deserving to be treated so badly by the social media mob & music industry. Mind you these are all the same women, industry people hash-tagging all over the place in 2022 talking about how important mental health is, etc. But did they or will they ever show any empathy to him? I sure hopes he can turn his life around and gets the chance again to do what he does best and let the public decide if they want to listen anymore.
May 7, 2022 @ 1:36 pm
Was just listening to whiskeytown and revisiting the whole Ryan adams story. I’ve become alot more skeptical over the past few years on NYT reporting on cultural issues as I’ve seen them make so many mistakes and not owning up to it in a transparent way. Having said that I’m pretty sure Ryan Adam’s did some awful things and was probably controlling in his marriage. The underage thing doesn’t look it went anywhere and a lot of it may have more to do with alcoholism and insecurity more than preying on women. Metoo really had the affect of flattening stories that were much more complicated irl. But I do find Jason Isbell getting more annoying through the years. It surprises me a bit given he was also a mess for years yet comes off as a little too sanctimonious for my taste. Maybe that’s reasonable given his wife and kid are the most important thing to him and protects that relationship at all costs. I just find his comment in this article to be annoying as he’s not really as concerned about Adams behaviour so much as absolving himself. He knows people will wonder if he knew about this behaviour and this statement is designed to get ahead of it by saying he’s learned something about friendship. Given that’s where he goes, but doesn’t even contend with the fact friendship also means loyalty, working things out and forgiveness, it just seems self-serving. I expected more nuance and honesty. I think he actually did have a sense of things at least in Adam’s marriage…he knew enough about the aftermath of it and the terrible ways Adams was handling it before that story. Lucinda’s statement seems a lot more in line with what a friend would say. She doesn’t let him off the hook for his behavior but she doesn’t seem to think we should banish him from society. I know things change in society as we progress but if lack of grace and forgiveness is progress, count me out.
February 4, 2023 @ 11:23 pm
https://www.lamag.com/culturefiles/ryan-adams/