On Margo Price Leaving Country Music Behind
For the last half decade, an insurgency among the ranks of independent country and Americana artists has enacted a significant incursion into the market share of popular country music, eating away at the dominance of radio and Music Row-controlled labels and imprints. For a while, all the media wanted to talk about was Sturgill Simpson, Chris Stapleton, and Jason Isbell as the triumvirate most responsible for the return of authenticity and substance to country and roots music. Then further names added themselves to the conversation—Cody Jinks, Tyler Childers, and now even artists whose music could be considered niche like Colter Wall and Billy Strings are seeing resounding success often reserved for mainstream-backed stars.
But similar to the obvious imbalance in the mainstream, there were no women who firmly ensconced themselves within this insurgent country wave. There was Kacey Musgraves, but she tended to be a little too kitsch, and a little too pop to fit the mold perfectly, and find reception among traditional country and Americana fans. She was a phenomenon all to herself. Miranda Lambert made for an interesting candidate, but as someone who was so firmly established in the mainstream winning Female Vocalist of the Year awards in succession, she didn’t fit the mold just right either.
Then there was Margo Price. Brash, country, from insurgent east Nashville, who once had Sturgill Simpson play in her band, she fit the model much better than any other nominee. And most importantly, she was afforded the opportunities and avenues to succeed, even more so than many of her male counterparts. She played Saturday Night Live very early in her arc after label owner Jack White of Third Man Records pulled some strings for her. Price went on to play the rest of the late night TV circuit on a fairly regular basis early in her career. The press was absolutely in love with her. Critics praised her records. She even received a Best New Artist nomination from the Grammy Awards in 2019.
But unlike her male peers, Margo Price never turned these huge, mainstream opportunities into major independent music success. Cody Jinks and Tyler Childers have not received nearly the opportunities Margo Price has, but outsell, outstream, and outdraw Margo Price many fold. Sturgill Simpson, Tyler Childers, Aaron Watson, Blackberry Smoke, Whiskey Myers, and Jason Isbell have all now registered #1 records on Billboard’s Country Albums Chart as distinctly non radio-supported artists, while Cody Jinks has registered three #2 albums. The best debut Margo Price ever had was #10, with her last record coming in at #12.
You could point to this as being the inherent bias against female voices in country and Americana, but that’s not entirely true either. Take Sarah Jarosz for example, the bluegrass-oriented singer and songwriter from Texas who also resides well outside the mainstream, and who just released a new record called World On The Ground in June. Just taking a gander at the amount of attention her songs have generated on Spotify, Jarosz’s top song “Build Me Up From Bones” has garnered over 63 millions streams—about in line with the top songs from Cody Jinks, and Tyler Childers. She also has a bluegrass cover of Prince’s “When Doves Cry” with 20 millions streams. Her next highest original is “House of Mercy” with 7.6 million streams.
Comparatively, Margo Price’s top song on Spotify, “Hurtin’ (On The Bottle),” only has 3.7 million streams. Her second-biggest track, “Tennessee Song,” has 2.8 million streams. Then also consider how Sarah Jarosz has received a tiny percentage of the press of Margo Price, and never has been afforded big opportunities like an SNL berth. Granted, some of this discrepancy could be due to playlisting, and Margo Price selling more physical albums on the vinyl-centric Third Man Records label resulting in less strong streaming numbers. This also isn’t to present music as a competition based solely on numbers. But despite the incredible favor from the media and opportunities most independent artists never receive, Price has never backed those opportunities up with any sort of measurable resonance with a greater audience, while artists with little or no similar opportunities do show more measurable, organic traction with listeners.
So why is there such a gulf between the perception of Margo Price as an independent superstar, and her sales and streaming numbers, good as they may be for some independent performers, but nowhere near many of her peers? It’s partly due to her public persona making her quite polarizing among the core fan base of the country insurgency, even more so than someone such as Jason Isbell. And despite all of her opportunities and positive press (Rolling Stone Country alone posted 30 articles featuring Price in 2018—a year she didn’t even release a record), Margo has just never resonated with the public through her studio albums.
Saving Country Music has experienced major backlash for sharing honest criticism and concerns for how Margo Price’s first two records turned out—2016’s Midwest Farmer’s Daughter, and 2017’s All American Made. Though the ultimate prognosis was more positive than negative, there’s just a palpable disconnect between the passion and energy Margo Price brings to her live performances that tend to earn universal praise, and what ends up on her albums. It’s not that Margo Price is a subpar performer. It’s that her records are subpar compared to her live performances. Pointing this out was always done in the effort to be constructive to an important artist in country music.
Nonetheless, you cannot even constructively criticize Margo Price in independent country and Americana. You will be accused of bias, and sexism because she has become one of these artists deemed untouchable. An echo chamber has persisted around her career demanding universal acclaim for all her efforts if you want to maintain your positive status in Americana, while privately many in the music industry recognize Margo Price’s lack of resonance. A Saturday Night Live berth, an all genre Grammy nomination, big tour opening opportunities, major endorsements from the media, and still people just don’t listen to Margo Price in comparison to her peers. And now after country music and Americana has expended unprecedented opportunities to make Margo Price the answer to the question, “Who is the woman to help lead the country music insurgency?”, Margo Price doesn’t even consider herself country.
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Margo Price’s new album That’s How Rumors Get Started was described by American Songwriter as “very un-country.” Talking with The Nashville Scene, Price herself foretells how people will still try to sell her new album as country by trying to use “fancy words.” But she states decisively, “Nope, I made a rock ’n’ roll record.” In interview after interview she underscores this point, even telling The Ringer that she expects her next album to be rock ‘n’ roll as well. Don’t even call it Americana. Speaking to the L.A. Times, Price says, “I wanted to do something different so I could maybe break the Americana glass ceiling.”
It’s official. Similar to the co-producer for the new album Sturgill Simpson, Margo Price has left the country genre.
The first thing Price supporters will say is that genre doesn’t matter. But it definitely matters to Margo Price, so much so that she has gone out of her way to implore the press to refer to her new album as rock ‘n’ roll, and not try to twist it into country.
The second thing Price supporters will say is that her creative expressions should not be hemmed in by expectations of any genre, or by so-called “country purists.” But this is missing the greater point as well. What was so important about the career of Margo Price was that she was a woman in the country insurgency that could help return some gender balance to the genre. This is one of the reasons so many resources and opportunities were extended to Margo Price, from the Ameripolitan and Americana Awards, all the way up to Grammy nominations and SNL. The press lauded her as country music’s healthy alternative. Now as she exits—similar to Taylor Swift—Margo Price leaves a gaping hole in country music since so many resources were ultimately spent on an artist that had no loyalty to the genre.
Margo Price should have the creative freedom to make whatever kind of music she wants. Let’s repeat that: Margo Price should have the creative freedom to make whatever kind of music she wants. No artist should be obligated to anything. However, by country music and its institutions so obsequiously focusing on Margo Price—-even as she continued to prove her poor resonance with listeners—she took away precious attention and resources from other important artists—especially other women artists—who were showing much more positive resonance with listeners, and personal identity and loyalty to country music. Margo Price built her career off of country music and its fans. Now, she can’t be bothered by it.
The obsession of the media with Margo Price—primarily born from her political stances shared on social media—resulted in a unhealthy bias and echo chamber in coverage on her career that has been extended to the coverage of That’s How Rumors Get Started, especially from media decidedly outside of the country music community who love to use artists such as Margo Price, Kacey Musgraves, and Sturgill Simpson to make personal attacks on the country music populous.
The title for the L.A. Times feature on Price’s new record is, “Mask-wearing, BLM-backing country singer Margo Price on alienating fans: ‘You can’t argue with stupid’.” Not only is the title incorrect since Margo Price spells out in that very article that the new record is rock, it makes many wild-eyed stereotypical assumptions about country artists and fans, while Margo’s “You can’t argue with stupid” perfectly encapsulates her down-looking persona that put her on the wrong side of the country music audience, regardless of their political views.
As for the music of That’s How Rumors Get Started itself, once again it feels like Margo Price does okay, but falls short from her potential in the recorded context. She is correct in calling the album rock ‘n’ roll. More specifically it’s a classic rock-inspired effort. Instead of recording with her band, she used a band partially picked by Sturgill Simpson—a common mark of Sturgill’s production efforts. The album features Matt Sweeney on guitar, drummer James Gadson, Pino Palladino on bass, and Benmont Tench on keyboards.
Removing any genre discussion, That’s How Rumors Get Started definitely has its moments. One of the early singles “Letting Me Down” proves that Price has some of the right acuity and attitude for rock. Margo first performed the final song on the record called “I’d Die For You” at a Nashville benefit in early March right before the COVID-19 lock down. As was observed then, “I’d Die For You” is an incredibly powerful composition that Margo Price knocks out of the park, even if once again, the live version far surpasses what is captured in the studio. And if you’re looking for something with a little country swagger, check out “Prisoner of the Highway.”
Only a few tweaks and That’s How Rumors Get Started could definitely be considered country rock or Americana. It’s certainly more country than what you might hear on country radio. The record is in no way offensive to roots audiences, nor it is overtly political, even though certain country reactionaries will take it that way simply because Price’s name is on the cover. But the fuzz rock of “Twinkle Twinkle” reminds one a little too much of the post-Apocalyptic universe Sturgill Simpson constructed for his recent rock record Sound & Fury, while “Heartless Mind” reminds you of the dated synth rock of that “Maniac” song from the 1983 movie Flashdance.
And even though many Margo Price fans will be unwilling to read this deep into a think piece, and will simply navigate to the comments section to lob unfounded accusations of bias, or use ambiguous of “axe grinding” charges, or selectively pull quote certain segments to portray this entire work as sexist in lieu of a salient argument against the points expressed here, all of this will overlook the underlying and very important concern with Margo Price going rock with this record.
Margo Price was supposed to be about empowering women in country music. She was supposed to be a part of taking country music back from the money changers on Music Row, who had no respect for country music’s traditions, or the contributions of women performers. It was about fighting for something bigger than any individual artist, and believing in something bigger than yourself. The hope when we heard Sturgill Simpson was producing Margo Price’s new record was that we would finally get the Margo Price album we knew she was capable of, that would match her amazing live performances, and hopefully finally win her the wide audience her critical praise clamored for. Instead, we got another decent but improvable record, and the pronouncement she’s left the country genre behind entirely.
The reason that we cared so much about Margo Price was not just because she was a woman, or because she was country. It was because of both, and together, because we needed women in country to help return some gender balance to the genre, to broaden perspectives, to speak to the women in the country audience, and broach important issues from a feminine perspective. And after all that effort to prop up Margo Price—which was sometimes misguided as much more worthy women and music were overlooked and undervalued—now we can’t even count Margo Price among the ranks of country performers.
Margo Price was important to country music. But more important now is to learn the lessons of her departure, primarily on how important it is to focus important resources on women in country music who will show loyalty to the genre, and see country music not as a stepping stone or a “glass ceiling,” but as a home. Because with so few resources and opportunities going to women already, we can’t afford to spend them on artists who will ultimately just leave.
Johnnyba
July 14, 2020 @ 9:13 am
I liked the first record a lot but thought the second was weak. Her songwriting has not been really convincing to me since that first effort. It may work a bit better now as a straight rock record but I found it “meh.”
That said you are “grinding your axe” a touch because this is more about your ongoing battle with mainstream journalists than anything else. The first problem you have to fix is making country music a welcoming home for female artists. Then you’ll get more attention for women who want to be at home there. Whatever grumbles you have about Kacey’s efforts she tried.
Trigger
July 14, 2020 @ 9:54 am
I fell like the media issue is critical when analyzing Margo Price, and the ability to make “country music a welcoming home for female artists.” When you have one periodical devote 30 dedicated articles, THIRTY of them, to a single artist—especially in a year she doesn’t even release a record—you are taking away opportunities from other voices that deserve to be heard. How many deserving women had zero, or maybe one feature written on them, and are still slaving away in country, showing steadfast loyalty to the genre? All those resources were trained on Margo Price because the media had decided she was “the one.” Margo Price could help return gender balance to country, and she shared much of the media’s values. Now, she doesn’t even want her music to be considered country. That’s a bad return on investment for country music.
John R Baker
July 14, 2020 @ 12:21 pm
You make some good points here but I don’t think the hype thing is a problem specific to women. Like you mention the same nonsense came up with Simpson, Isbell, and Stapleton who all were doing stuff that sounded more like rock rock than country when they hit the hype machine. Margo Price was always more a descendant of Dylan and Petty than Loretta Lynn. I think that’s why they pushed her so hard. This is just the house lean with Rolling Stone and the gear much of music journalism is still stuck in despite the rock era being long over. I mean their lists of “100 greatest guitar” players exists in a laughable rock bubble where James Hetfield and Joey Ramone are among the greatest guitarists but Merle Travis, Doc Watson, and even Django Reinhardt apparently never existed. They always drive their journalism to make country influenced rock more country than country.
So I largely agree with you. I just want to hit that emphasis. The point is that women in country need more from journalists in country. Rolling Stone is always going to hype country rock/pop. It’s just who they are.
Marcel Ledbetter
July 14, 2020 @ 5:18 pm
I visit this site everyday, and I just want anyone and everyone who reads this to check out The Boomswagglers!
scott pactor
July 14, 2020 @ 9:14 am
Hello! I think a response to your streaming analysis is to look at the live show. I live in la and know people who work in the live industry and there are many examples of artists with tens of millionsof streams who can not fill a small theatre.
The publicity supports that touring profile. Is it better to be an artist with 10 million monthly listeners who has never done a 20 market us tour or to have 200k monthly listers and the ability to sell 500 to 1000 tickets in 50 us markets. Based on your piece, I’d imagine you’d prefer the streaming artist? That doesn’t sound very “country” to me
Very thoughtful post though, with many interesting points. Always enjoy when you weigh in Margo.
Trigger
July 14, 2020 @ 9:47 am
Hey Scott,
Actually, it’s kind of the opposite. I’ve broached this subject before in regards to Price as well, but didn’t have the space here.
One of the reasons that she seems to not resonate as much as she should is because she never put in those hard touring schedules like many of her peers in independent country did to build substantial fans bases. I’m not saying she hasn’t toured because she has. But not nearly to the same level, going to markets over and over and building that loyalty. Margo Price’s tour draw in many markets is woefully below what you would expect for an artist of her supposed size. She doesn’t have the ability to sell 500 to 1000 tickets in 50 US markets.
Furthermore, she has gained a reputation with festival owners for asking egregious guarantees and many multipliers of her established box scores. She will demand tens of thousands of dollars to play a festival in a market where he last show drew 160 people. Again, this is how the excessive media coverage in her has made the perception she is a superstar, when aside from Nashville or maybe New York or LA, the crowds just don’t show up, which is a shame since she’s great live.
Furthermore what this does is it puts festival owners in a difficult position. They want to support women performers and book them as headliners. But since Margo Price is the only headliner-level independent country woman, but wants so beyond what her market value is to play, they’re left with no option. This is how Margo Price has actually made it harder for music festivals to deliver more gender-balanced lineups.
Totally understand what you’re saying about how some artist focus on streaming. But in country, that personal connection is so much more important, unlike in hip-hop or EDM, where you can ride almost solely off of streaming hype. Country artists often tend to connect live, then the streaming numbers follow, especially in independent country that relies so little on radio play.
Cool Lester Smooth
July 14, 2020 @ 10:21 am
When I saw Margo, I got my tickets for maybe $5 at a club that usually charges $20. Great, great show…but she’s not
That said…her breakout came at a completely different life stage than folks like Musgraves and Jarosz.
The sort of national touring you’re talking about is an investment, and one that requires you to be willing to spend time touring the country, and the money lost via the opportunity cost of playing in a new market rather than a place you know you can sell out.
If you’re mid-30s and have a 5 year old at home, you’re gonna have a lot less touring flexibility, and you’ll be a lot less willing to play festivals for “exposure” rather than loads of $$$, than a single person in their early-mid-20s…especially when you know that you can pack the club around the corner any night of the week.
I completely agree with your diagnosis of why Margo’s never truly broken out (fewer monthly listeners than regional acts like WCG, or truly underground folks like Zach Bryan!)…but I find it hard to blame her, either.
Trigger
July 14, 2020 @ 10:36 am
I was going to bring the “being a mother” thing up, because that’s a totally understandable reason not to get in a van and drive around the country for five years until you can be more selective with your live calendar. But if I had, it would have been screenshot, and put on the internet to prove my misogyny. No shame in Margo making smart priorities in her life. I commend her for putting family first. But this is definitely one of the reasons she never resonated similar to artists with many fewer mainstream opportunities and press.
Cool Lester Smooth
July 14, 2020 @ 10:49 am
Yeah, there’s probably a way to word it as “having a family,” especially given that her husband is also a musician, and the shit they’ve gone through with losing one of their sons…but context will never stop a Twitter mob, haha.
Like, I fully expect Isbell and Shires to start having to make tough choices about spring and fall touring, once their daughter hits school-age in a couple of years.
North Woods Country
July 14, 2020 @ 3:07 pm
I don’t get the hype and never have. I was getting awfully confused with how often I was being told that an unexceptional artist is exceptional, anyway. Her voice isn’t what it’s sold as, and her songs don’t stick to the heart or mind. It’s clear she’s talented but she’s essentially the Maren Morris of the independent world–the gal with all the obvioud talent that isn’t obvious in her output.
fuel4thot
July 14, 2020 @ 1:51 pm
In regard to Price’s festival ask, I do wonder how much of that is her personally demanding, and how much of that is her booking agency or management team trying to push the money?
It does seem pretty egregious to look for “tens of thousands” while moving less than 160 headliner tickets in a club in that market, but festivals will almost always have a different/higher price scale than individual shows for any given artist.
I do look forward to a day when more female superstars prevail in country music, both independent and mainstream, and I try to support the ones I really like with my ticket and record dollars when I can.
Trigger
July 14, 2020 @ 2:44 pm
Every agent worth their salt is constantly trying to up the ante for an artist’s ask, and is often using festivals to do so since the idea is the pockets are deeper, even though when it comes to independent ones, this isn’t the case at all. However when it comes to Margo Price, it’s in a whole other universe. I have seen some of the offer sheets, and some of the language used by her representatives, in insulting and accusatory tones. They know they have the only independent country woman that can be couched as a headliner, and if she doesn’t get the same pay as the other headliners, it’s deemed “insulting” under her way against the gender pay gap. This has not only resulted in many festivals who really want to book her, and are willing to pay 300% to 500% what she’s worth being turned down, you might still get called out on Twitter by her personally simply for making the bid.
I wrote about this extensively in the below article, with a reference to a specific time Margo called out a festival for not having enough women … when they were trying to book Margo Price so they would have more women.
https://savingcountrymusic.com/why-i-have-mixed-feelings-about-the-born-raised-festival/
Bob
July 14, 2020 @ 9:21 am
I am not sure one record that doesn’t fit the “traditional” country mold is leaving a “gaping” hole in country music. The idea that “artists” of any kind need to be pigeonholed their whole career based on early examples of how they started started their careers is not realistic. Fairly certain Elvis went that route.
People like Sturgill, and now Margo, don’t seem to care about where they fit in. And that’s OK. They are not responsible for the well being of Country Music. The listeners are. And currently they like songs about trucks, beaches and beer. But maybe one of those listeners will here Sturgill or Margo’s new stuff and explore their other records and find something more.
Trigger
July 14, 2020 @ 9:59 am
It’s not my opinion that this record, “doesn’t fit the “traditional” country mold.” As I said in the article, I think the record fits more into country most than most of what you hear on country radio. It’s Margo Price who in multiple interviews implored her music NOT be considered country, and be considered rock specifically.
“People like Sturgill, and now Margo, don’t seem to care about where they fit in.”
Incorrect. Margo Price is going out of her way to say this is a rock ‘n’ roll record, even going as far as to premeditatively chastise the media for couching it as country wrongly. She very strongly cares where it fits. Sturgill is sort of his own discussion, but both seem to have bought into this idea that telling the genre that built their careers to kiss off is a sign of creativity.
Also, Price is also saying her next album will be rock as well. So this isn’t just an outlier album. In her words, it’s a concerted effort to break through the glass ceiling of Americana.
Bob Harris
July 14, 2020 @ 9:22 am
I saw Margo the night after the 2016 Presidential election in Washington DC. I had been listening to her since the summer and just started to learn of her political leanings. I told my buddy we were leaving if she went on any rants. She didn’t. She played a terrific show and seemed gracious and at times overwhelmed by the support of the crowd. To this day it is one of the best shows I have attended. Its so unfortunate that artists get bogged down in this crap as there are so few opportunities for nights like this, for band and fans alike. Third Man made a vinyl record of that show by the way. But I think they left out a few tunes. appreciate your work.
Cool Lester Smooth
July 14, 2020 @ 9:44 am
I saw Margo live in Boston a few years ago (got very cheap tickets at the last second, with Aaron Lee Tasjan opening – great guy). She was unreal. I love the live album she just put up on Bandcamp, as well.
I really, really want her to work with Cobb, on at least one album.
Trigger
July 14, 2020 @ 10:04 am
Margo Price is amazing live. Recently reliving her set at Pickathon from 2016 when they replayed it as part of their COVID-19 drive, and then seeing her perform “I’d Die For You” in March on another charity live stream underscored this for me. I just don’t understand why they can’t capture that in the studio. I like Matt Sweeney. But is there anyone who believed he would be the magic bullet Margo Price has been looking for?
Stringbuzz
July 14, 2020 @ 11:05 am
I was at that show.. It was awesome.. Both of them were real entertaining, but Margo was impressive.
Cool Lester Smooth
July 14, 2020 @ 12:32 pm
Girl I was with INSISTED on buying ALT a drink, haha
Stringbuzz
July 14, 2020 @ 2:16 pm
I really tried to get into his stuff after that show, and couldn’t, but I would go see him again. I liked the dress too. LOL
Cool Lester Smooth
July 15, 2020 @ 10:47 am
Hah! He was rocking that dress.
But yeah, I was surprised at how good he was live, relative to what I’d heard of his stuff on WUMB.
Jacob
July 14, 2020 @ 9:34 am
Insightful and well thought out commentary, Trig. I like Margo. Enjoyed her first album. Second not so much. This one loses me halfway through after a promising start with the first 5 songs. I however don’t feel she owes country music genre or industry anything. If she had made a bluegrass record a la Simpson would it have been more acceptable just because grass is closer to the country spectrum than rock? The older I get the more I appreciate the musicians as artists. Is it disappointing when they don’t put out something that fits our expectations? Sure, but it must have fit their expectations and vision. Further, Tyler used Sturgill’s musicians for both of his recorded albums. We don’t hold that against him.
Cool Lester Smooth
July 14, 2020 @ 10:23 am
I hold it against Tyler, haha!
Bottles and Bibles is pretty firmly my favorite record of his, followed by Red Barn, because it’s purely him.
Trigger
July 14, 2020 @ 10:31 am
I thought Sturgill Simpson did great producing those two Tyler Childers records. I don’t hold it against him for wanting to use other musicians, but as Cool Lester Smooth and others will prove, many do. It goes back to the whole loyalty thing.
Each album and artist really deserves to be considered on a case by case basis. Sometimes using an artist’s touring band might be the best call. Other times, it isn’t. I just fail to get excited about the band put together to record this album. Is it really better than the Pricetags? Tench is a legend obviously, but that doesn’t mean he will represent Margo Price’s sound better than someone else. How about bringing in multiple people, and see who brings the goods?
Jake Cutter
July 14, 2020 @ 11:33 am
He could have supplemented some great players with the actual band. Completely replacing the bands that tour and support the artists (and sound great live), is not only a dick move, but effects the vibe of the music. Several awesome live recordings of Tyler’s songs prove this.
Matt F.
July 15, 2020 @ 8:25 pm
Somehow I missed this. It sounds very disappointing that TC kept his buddies on the sideline. Do you know any more of the story?
Jake Cutter
July 16, 2020 @ 6:29 am
No, it would be interesting to know, if there’s more to the story. May not be much too it though, as it’s not completely uncommon. There’s some amazing playing on that record, specially the opening track, but I think it would have been cool to mix some of that in with the feel and groove of his seasoned band.
Cool Lester Smooth
July 14, 2020 @ 9:51 am
So…when do we accept that Sturgill just isn’t a good producer, haha?
His albums with Cobb were significantly better than his last two.
Tyler’s underground, bootleg stuff blows Purgatory and Country Squire out of the water.
Margo’s production has always been iffy…and the tracks I’ve heard from this project have even more issues than usual.
I really want Dave Cobb to just put Margo and her band into a room, and let them do their thing – because “their thing” is really fucking good. That live album she dropped a few weeks ago is much stronger than any of her major releases, much like how Live From Alabama offers the definitive version of Isbell’s pre-Cobb songs.
Hank Charles
July 14, 2020 @ 7:24 pm
Lol.
Yes, those Grammy nods (and wins) and the fact that two massively successful artists playing Sturgill Simpson produced music were just selling out arenas pre-quarantine, are a true testament to what an awful producer he is.
Imagine Dave Ferguson listening to you tell him about how much better the arrangements in your favorite YouTube track of 18 year old Childers are without laughing out loud.
Cool Lester Smooth
July 15, 2020 @ 10:45 am
Hey man – feel free to die on the hill that Sound & Fury was better produced than Metamodern, haha.
Hank Charles
July 15, 2020 @ 12:14 pm
While I won’t compare what is Stu’s magnum opus to what is damned to be the least appreciated album of his career, Sailor’s Guide is light years beyond High Top in terms of composition and production value. It might not be your cup of tea, and that’s fine. But, there’s a reason Stu felt like he transcended after that album as well as a catalyst that emboldened him to do S&F. I would imagine this is the same phenomenon that drew Price to him as a producer.
Either way, I still can’t help you with putting Bottles & Bibles era Childers in the same sonic universe as Purgatory. Purgatory took Childers from being a middling, regional draw to sold out shows on a national scale, and he definitely has Stu to thank for that.
Cool Lester Smooth
July 15, 2020 @ 1:12 pm
In fairness…I don’t like High Top, either. The whole thing is pure kitsch.
ASGTE just doesn’t sound as good as Metamodern, to my ears. It’s simultaneously too muddy and too polished, if that makes sense – it’s all very consciously manufactured.
Personally, I think the leap in recognition Tyler got after Purgatory has a lot more with with improved marketing than a leap in music quality – and I’ll never dispute how much Sturgill helped on that front! I also think that marketing played a larger role in Price opting to go with Sturgill as a producer than other considerations…and I can’t blame her for it!
Anyway, I’m a big Neutral Milk Hotel guy, I’ve loved the Zach Bryan records, and the only Drunk Isbell album Isbell I’ll listen to is Live From Alabama…all of which explains my preference for the sound of Bottles and Bibles to something like Country Squire.
Hank Charles
July 15, 2020 @ 6:50 pm
Totally understandable. To be honest, I don’t think anything he will ever do will match Metamodern. That one is just forever going to be on its own tier.
I feel you on the NMH. I’m a fan as well. The truly gifted singer-songwriter dynamic is awesome, and I respect anyone who can really grip people at such a stripped down level. But, the groups that can really nail the grand composition on something loud, powerful, and well written, are always my favorites.
Jake Cutter
July 15, 2020 @ 7:54 pm
Why do people like to use Grammy awards or even sales as proof of greatness? Lou Pearlman’s “artists” sold a shit ton and won lots of awards. Is he great? Is that music great?
If we were on Simply Counting Money.com you might have a point though.
Hank Charles
July 16, 2020 @ 6:23 am
So, you think there’s absolutely no significance to largely independent artists with little to no political capital winning Grammys, topping charts, and selling out shows?
Making a good living playing music, and not playing by the “rules”, is a long row to hoe. It’s even tougher to achieve that level of popularity without the full support of the machine.
A kid from Jackson, Kentucky (population ~3K, where 5% of residents hold bachelor degrees) playing at the Grammys with the f%{^ing Dap Kings accompaniment is success by any arbitrary measure.
Jake Cutter
July 16, 2020 @ 7:35 am
I didn’t say there’s “absolutely no significance.” I said that you can’t use sales or Grammys as proof of greatness, and I gave just one example of why. Nice try though.
I’m also not listening to “One Margarita” as I type this, or (god willing) anytime soon, even though it’s the “country song of the summer.”
Hank Charles
July 16, 2020 @ 8:14 am
What’s your preferred metric then?
I said these guys are wildly successful and explained why I think that. One of them made it largely without the machine, and pulled another supremely talented artist up the ladder behind him, as his producer – alongside a sound engineer who worked with Rick Rubin and is most famously associated with Johnny Cash.
When I tout Grammys and sales, it has to be taken in the context of who I’m talking about. This is the “Waylon Jennings on acid” guy, not Justin Bieber or Adele. Soccer moms aren’t blasting “Call or Arms” or “Ever Loving Hand” on the way to PTA meetings. This music has little mainstream appeal or marketing support.
I’m not saying that’s the end all, be all measure. But it is definitely a credential that he uses (and should use) to his benefit.
Jake Cutter
July 16, 2020 @ 8:28 am
The actual music itself.
Hank Charles
July 16, 2020 @ 9:23 am
Your individual opinion of the music is not a metric, my man.
Identify a metric that discredits any of the above, or spare us the critical theory attitude that “because I can slight an aspect of your argument, it’s all invalid”.
Comparing Simpson and Childers popularity to Luke Bryan isn’t a good faith argument if you can recognize even the slightest bit of nuance in that discussion. Given that you read SCM, I think you’re more than capable of understanding that.
Jake Cutter
July 16, 2020 @ 9:38 am
You asked me what “my” preferred metric is and I told you. My original comment is very straight forward, pointing out a simple logical fallacy that I could explain to a 4th grader. Meanwhile you’ve gone everywhere from saying he should use the credit, to some backstory of someone from a certain geography, to diverting attention by asking me what my metric is? I could have expanded the argument as well, and said that there is no way of knowing if Albums produced by someone else wouldn’t have also won, but I didn’t. I made a simple point and I stuck to it. Once again, Grammy Awards and sales numbers are not any sort of proof of greatness, unless we’re talking about money (included in my original comment). The same organization that gave the award to MacLemore over Kendrick and said that “How to Dismantle and Atomic Bomb” was the best album in all of music, does not seem to be a good “metric” “my man.” Twist, turn, backtrack and divert all you want, it won’t help correct the logical fallacy of your original statement. Moving on….
Hank Charles
July 16, 2020 @ 11:03 am
Dismissing an argument with subjectivity isn’t an argument in and of itself.
And you followed it up with “we don’t know that those albums wouldn’t have been just as successful if Joe Blow produced them”, while unironically accusing me of logical fallacies, as if everything you’ve added to the discussion aren’t strictly unfalsifiable assertions.
Yes, Macklemore won a Grammy over Kendrick Lamar. That was awful, even though corny “Thrift Shop” was one of the biggest songs of the year. You also left out Lamar was nominated for 7 Grammys that year, has won 13 to date, and has been nominated for 5x as many as Macklemore in his career.
Peer support, awards, sales, and the underlying context of all three may not correlate with Jake’s definition of success or greatness. But to any rational human being, they do.
Cool Lester Smooth
July 16, 2020 @ 3:32 pm
I mean…ASGTE was Sturgill’s first non-independent release, haha!
That’s where he got the political capital to be the “It Boy” for the Grammys, etc.
He then used that political capital to anoint Tyler as “The Next Big Thing” (/What’s that mean?/It’s hard to pay the bills/When there ain’t no money/In the bank! It’s insane…etc.).
I’d say the role Sturgill played in Tyler’s rise is far more akin that which Timberlake played in Stapleton’s than Cobb-to-Isbell.
Jay
July 14, 2020 @ 9:55 am
This is the record that Stevie Nicks wish’s she could have made. AOTY.
MichaelA
July 14, 2020 @ 11:20 am
That brings back some good memories. Bella Donna is an album that I wore out in LP and cassette form. Fortunately my digital version is holding up well. She never quite reached that peak again, but who has?
If Margo has, then I need to give it a few listens.
Trigger
July 14, 2020 @ 11:26 am
Stevie Nicks became iconic by being Stevie Nicks. Margo Price cannot become iconic by being Stevie Nicks. Margo Price needs to be Margo Price.
Molly B. Norris
July 14, 2020 @ 10:06 am
No woman has EVER come close to providing true, raw country music like Loretta Lynn, some felt Margo would be able do that, and she couldn’t. She was given all the opportunity, and in my opinion fell short miserably. All this switching genres is bull shit in my opinion to grab out of the ordinary fans. What ever happened to staying true to your roots, true to the fans, and giving them albums to listen to, and actually enjoy! Bye Margo, I always liked Nikki Lane a hell of a lot better anyways!
Matt F.
July 15, 2020 @ 8:31 pm
To my ears, Kelsey Waldron is Loretta’s descendant. Do you know her music?
Jake Cutter
July 14, 2020 @ 10:16 am
“So why is there such a gulf between the perception of Margo Price as an independent superstar, and her sales and streaming numbers, good as they may be for some independent performers, but nowhere near many of her peers?“
Perhaps because it was always undeserved hype. Pushing things for superficial reasons doesn’t always work. Not sure how much more complicated it really is than that.
Cool Lester Smooth
July 14, 2020 @ 10:33 am
I really think the hype comes from people who have seen her live.
“Margo Price is one of the most talented up-and-coming women in indie country” isn’t at all in conflict with “Margo Price is largely a regional act, whose sound has yet to translate to studio albums.”
Jake Cutter
July 14, 2020 @ 11:36 am
I appreciate her live appeal, and that speaks for something. I’m just not a fan of her songs either. I’ve seen some great live “jam bands” that I would never listen to at home or outside a festival.
I pretty much 100% agree with your other comment about Cobb though.
Cool Lester Smooth
July 14, 2020 @ 12:42 pm
That’s fair – it’s probably telling that my favorite song I’ve heard her do is Proud Mary, haha!
But yeah, until she finds someone who can translate at least some of that live electricity to a studio album, it’s hard to judge her…although the fact that she still hasn’t managed it after 5 years might be judgment worthy itself.
Jake Cutter
July 14, 2020 @ 1:26 pm
Good points.
thegentile
July 14, 2020 @ 10:49 am
“margo was supposed to do this. she was supposed to do that.”
man trig, you and many of your readers really don’t like when artists don’t deliver on what you have planned out for them. an entitled lot. this is just an article about how you are disappointed in her and how she should be better at being successful.
you can really tell when you have an axe to grind (despite your protests) because you spend so many more words on things you don’t like than things you do.
but it was clever of you to slip in “margo price should have the creative freedom to make whatever kind of music she wants”, despite being upset with her that she isn’t for the whole article. now you can point to that one line (fine, two) to say you support her.
Jay
July 14, 2020 @ 11:42 am
This. A thousand times this.
Jake Cutter
July 14, 2020 @ 11:48 am
You know, you’re right gentile. He definitely shouldn’t make comments about supporting her right to do what she wants, while at the same time being disappointed, on a blog about country music, that a former country artists isn’t making country music anymore. Fuck nuance and multi dimensional points of view. He needs a more “with her or against her, ” aka “binary” type of position. Bravo.
MH
July 15, 2020 @ 1:55 pm
“He needs a more “with her or against her,” aka “binary” type of position.”
The East Nashville crowd always live by that subscription. Whether it’s their music artist creation, their espresso, and their politics.
Cool Lester Smooth
July 14, 2020 @ 12:01 pm
Eh. I think most of the criticism here is fairly constructive.
“Super-talented, but hasn’t translated that to her studio recordings or her sales numbers” is a very fair description of Margo’s career to date.
I also don’t see anything wrong with saying that it’s a shame for “Women in Country” efforts that the signal used to boost Price (who’s clearly only ever wanted to do her own thing, on her own terms, which is great!) instead of someone more willing to adopt a “Standard-Bearer” role, similar to Childers’.
Trigger
July 14, 2020 @ 2:00 pm
Whenever you post an article like this, the same stock rebuttals will be employed about how artists should be free to do what they want, and you’re unfair to lump expectations on them. But that’s never being argued against. It a very simple and salient argument: If as a genre, you put tons of resources behind an artist, pay for their development and give them opportunities that could have gone to others only to have them leave, then you’re left empty handed for those efforts. The only person who benefits is the artist themselves. People will continue to criticize country music for not developing or supporting women. But just like Taylor Swift, we developed Margo Price. Then she left.
Jake Cutter
July 14, 2020 @ 4:26 pm
“Stock rebuttals” you say?
WRONG. Come on Trigger, it’s definitely NOT as if his whole point of existence seems to be to post comments to a website that he disagrees with, with some sort of moral supremacy, at every turn. And it’s definitely NOT as if his comments aren’t brave, unique and special. That much is UNDENIABLE. I know you think you’re clever with you own fancy website and all but come on, let’s respect true greatness when it’s right before us. I’d vote that you let gentile do a “commenter takeover,” or “guest editor” type thing for awhile, but I don’t think we deserve such great things. Instead I’ll just sit back and enjoy watching him school you every time, and try to soak up the knowledge.
thegentile
July 14, 2020 @ 7:00 pm
that’s very flattering!
but i think the readership would prefer if you wrote some articles and then have trig defend you in the comments. you know, really mix things up. throw them a curve ball. something different for a change!
Jake Cutter
July 14, 2020 @ 8:09 pm
Nah, I know my limits. I chose you because I don’t have the same moral superiority, or lecturing skills. Keep preaching brother, I think it’s really working.
DJ
July 15, 2020 @ 5:11 am
Hahahahahahhahaha
Brian
July 14, 2020 @ 12:47 pm
100%. One of Margo’s idols is Neil Young, an artist who for better or worse, changes with every album. Isn’t that a true artist does? She’s not regurgitating the same thing over and over, she’s evolving.
And I’m not sure about her not being able to draw 500-1000 a night in 50 markets. In December of 2018, she did a quick Northeast run of DC, Philly, Asbury Park and Brooklyn. DC was sold out (9:30 Club, 1,200 capacity), Philly was sold out (World Cafe, not sure capacity), I was at the Asbury Park show, a 700 cap venue and you couldn’t move inside.
Seems like she doesn’t fit the narrative you want for her.
Zues
July 14, 2020 @ 5:00 pm
Interesting anecdote.
Now do the other 46 top markets in the US.
I don’t know the answer either. Sometimes outliers are outliers though and your sample size seems a bit small.
norrie
July 14, 2020 @ 10:56 am
It might not be country but it’s one hell of a good slbum.
The Original WTF Guy
July 14, 2020 @ 6:34 pm
Sorry. You can’t do that. You simply *have* to place it into some genre and then review it based on how far that genre is from true/pure country, whatever the hell that is.
What I love is how Blackberry Smoke, for example, is lauded here (and for good reason) but this album by Margo Price is dismissed because it ain’t country.
Trigger
July 14, 2020 @ 7:25 pm
I can’t speak for everyone, but I can say that I am not dismissing this album. As I said in the article, a couple of tweaks, and the album would be solidly alt-country or country rock. A few more tweaks and it would be fine as a country record. Margo Price is the one that is demanding it’s placed in the rock genre, and that we recognize it isn’t a country record.
Stringbuzz
July 14, 2020 @ 11:12 am
I’ve seen Margo Price 4 times. She has always been great. I’d go again.
I think the new album is pretty well made, good songs, and I think her singing has improved.
I believe her current fans will appreciate it and she may even bring in some more with it.
Comes down to what you like, what you don’t like.
I met her husband one time when he opened up for Ian Noe in Boston. He was a real down to earth person.
She has lived quite a life and is able to make some money doing it. All the power to her.
Clint Bond
July 14, 2020 @ 11:56 am
She doesn’t have close to the top streaming numbers of Logan Mize. But you hear all about her…
OlaR
July 14, 2020 @ 12:20 pm
Margo Price is a rock’n’roller now. Not country…or americana…a rock’n’roller. Produced by Sturgill Simpson.
On Google Play That’s How Rumors Get Started is listed as country. How dare you Google Play. Cancel Google. It’s a rock’n’roll album…lol.
Well…Margo Price will not save country music.
More time to listen to Kylie Frey, Bri Bagwell, Robynn Shayne, Casey Baker, Irene Kelley, Sunny Sweeney & the aussie ladies like Aleyce Simmonds, Amber Lawrence, Beccy Cole, Sara Storer, Tania Kernaghan, Anita Ree, Gina Jeffreys, Kasey Chambers, Ashleigh Dallas, Della Harris, Kristy Cox, Gretta Ziller, Dani Young…& so many more.
618creekrat
July 14, 2020 @ 4:22 pm
…So many more, such as Anna Lynch, the Ashleys (Mcbryde, Monroe & Ray), Brennen Leigh, Charlie Marie, Courtney Patton, Dori Freeman, Eilen Jewell, Elizabeth Cook, Emily Scott Robinson, Erin Enderlin, Holly Williams, Jaime Wyatt, Jamie Lin Wilson, Karen Jonas, Kelley Mickwee, Kelsey Waldon, Lauren Mascitti, Lindi Ortega, Lori McKenna, Michaela Anne, Nikki Lane, The Secret Sisters, Steel Blossoms, Tami Neilson, Tessy Lou Williams, Whitney Rose, and Yola, among some more others..
Eric
July 14, 2020 @ 12:39 pm
Has anyone else noticed a long-term pattern? It seems like the most liberal people in music tend to be inherently country artists who label themselves “Americana”, while the most conservative ones tend to be inherently rock artists who associate with the country world (Hank Jr, Charlie Daniels, Kid Rock, etc.)
Forth Blessed Gorge
July 14, 2020 @ 5:10 pm
It’s definitely a pattern and it’s not just confined to the country genre either. American pop culture entertainment is evolving to suit current American tastes and right now in the US you have to choose one side or the other. You likewise have to choose your entertainment accordingly. IMO it seriously stifles creativity and genuine criticism too.
Jerry Clower's Ghost
July 14, 2020 @ 12:49 pm
As I see it, the only kind of woman who can take over the indie country scene is a Janis Joplin type who doesn’t care about image, and one whose ultimate concern is the music – not posturing and virtue signaling. Yola could do that if she leaned a little more into her country influences.
Bennett
July 14, 2020 @ 12:58 pm
“Margo has just never resonated with the public through her studio albums. Saving Country Music has experienced major backlash for sharing honest criticism and concerns for how Margo Price’s first two records turned out.”
This doesn’t compute. If she didn’t have public support for her albums, why did you get “major backlash” for criticizing them? Both parts of this statement can’t be true.
If the albums didn’t resonate, you wouldn’t have gotten backlash.
On the whole, it’s getting pretty tiring of SCM trashing female artists as they go out the door into other genre’s. Why would they want to stay if support from an outlet like this is contingent on making the kind of music the author here prefers? You can’t claim to care about female artists while also saying you can only support ones going forward if they stay in their country music lane.
“Smile more and play those country songs, gals!”
You sure wrote a whole lot of words on your country music site about someone you claim very few people around country music like or listen to.
Trigger
July 14, 2020 @ 1:52 pm
“it’s getting pretty tiring of SCM trashing female artists as they go out the door into other genre’s. Why would they want to stay if support from an outlet like this is contingent on making the kind of music the author here prefers? You can’t claim to care about female artists while also saying you can only support ones going forward if they stay in their country music lane.”
First off, I’m not “trashing” anyone’s music. That’s grossly hyperbolic. Second, implying that the criticizing of artists leaving the genre is contingent upon their sex is ludicrous. See Zac Brown, Sturgill Simpson, and a dozen others, WAY more men than women.
The idea here is very simple. If you’re for supporting women in country, those women have to be COUNTRY. I’m not against any other type of music, or artists making any music they want. But when a genre and its institutions puts such an incredible amount of resources behind an artist, and then that artists switches genres, it’s an incredible waste of those resources. Country music paid in awards and opportunities for Margo Price’s development. Now, there is no return on that investment as Margo Price leaves. This stands to reason that it would be better to have spent those resources and opportunities on women who will actually be loyal to the genre, especially seeing how limited those resources are for women in country.
thegentile
July 14, 2020 @ 2:21 pm
“Country music paid in awards and opportunities for Margo Price’s development. Now, there is no return on that investment as Margo Price leaves. ”
your argument that awards and opportunities are investments and as a result, something to be paid back, versus something that is earned by the artist is ridiculous. you hear that francis ford coppola? that best picture academy award for the godfather part ii was a gift! how dare you make wine now you hack!
also “women who will actually be loyal to the genre”. lol.
Trigger
July 14, 2020 @ 2:31 pm
Yeah, the problem is those awards weren’t earned. They were gifted, while more deserving artists were shaded out of the process simply because they don’t take the right political stances on Twitter to make them as visible to voters.
Di Harris
July 14, 2020 @ 2:36 pm
Exactly
thegentile
July 14, 2020 @ 2:44 pm
another liberal conspiracy to slowly infiltrate and disrupt middle class america. got it!
Trigger
July 14, 2020 @ 2:46 pm
hold that thought …
Di Harris
July 14, 2020 @ 2:39 pm
Love most of Coppola’s movies.
His wine sucks
Cool Lester Smooth
July 14, 2020 @ 2:24 pm
…
…
His point is very clearly that Margo’s vocal support among the Very Online and Twitter Tastemaker segments rapidly outstrips her actual, commercial numbers, which are akin to those of Moreland or the Secret Sisters, despite her far greater national exposure.
I consider myself a Margo Price fan – she’s legitimately one of the best live acts I’ve ever seen.
Most of Trigger’s points, outside of the usual kvetching about everyone’s being out to get him, are quite sound – Margo’s super-talented, but she’s also more of a regional act than a commercial star, and just wants to do her own thing rather than being some sort of standard-bearer for “Women in Country.”
As such, y’know, it’s silly to expand capital trying to make that happen.
(Obviously, the original sin here is the #cancellation of the Dixie Chicks back in 2003, driving them out of the genre)
Ian
July 14, 2020 @ 1:12 pm
She said (in rolling stone I think) that she wants to do 3 rock records. I have no problem with that. Nobody should be writing songs for an audience they should be writing songs that inspire them to jump out of bed in the middle of the night to write down before they are forgotten. As for her overall, I have never listened to it but have not ruled it out.
wayne
July 14, 2020 @ 1:18 pm
Usually whoever the media is goo-goo ga-ga over more so for their agenda than the music, I tend not to follow. Same here. To plagiarize a quote from a past president, when the media knocks on the door and tells me there is a great artist, I run for the back door as fast as I can.
By the way, SCM is not what I consider to be the “media”. Thank goodness!
Di Harris
July 14, 2020 @ 1:35 pm
Amen.
Warthog
July 14, 2020 @ 1:19 pm
I’ve long gotten the vibe that Margo is shooting for a Neil Young-type career. What I mean by that is doing country here, rock and roll there, and building a fan base that supports her regardless. I feel like her vocally distancing herself from country is to go ahead and and get it out of the way and move on from fans that would make her feel like she has to do a certain thing.
As for me? Her new album is still pretty country to my ear, regardless what she calls it. And it’s good. Im looking forward to where she goes from here.
Paddy
July 14, 2020 @ 1:43 pm
I find this all to be faintly amusing. Every time Trigger goes off on one of his ‘think pieces’ it is usually at the expense of whoever he is ranting about. In this case Margo. But he is also very smart in the way he does it. There will always be a few lines scattered in his ‘think piece’ that make you believe he is being fair to whoever or whatever his rant is about. Margo’s album is a cracker. Her live album on Bandcamp is also a cracker. Trigger is also a cracker.
Yo
July 14, 2020 @ 2:03 pm
Trigger, why do these guys and gals always show up in country, make some fine country records, and then skedaddle at the first exit sign? It’s not the leaving I mind so much as the hopes they build up with solid early efforts only to be disheartened when they chase a muse down a mediocre rock rabbit hole.
Trigger
July 14, 2020 @ 2:36 pm
It is disheartening, and for many fans, heartbreaking. And country fans shouldn’t be made to feel guilty just because they want their favorite country artists to continue to make country records. They should be understanding if their favorite artists maybe wants to start a side project or do something out of left field. But that doesn’t have to come with a full flight from the country genre.
This is why you see such loyalty in fans of guys like Cody Jinks, Tyler Childers, the Turnpike Troubadours, etc. You know they won’t let you down.
Corncaster
July 15, 2020 @ 2:57 pm
You’d be happier if you stopped caring so much. Let the girl go and do her sorta rock thing. Love the one you’re with:
Gillian Welch Lori McKenna Norah Jones, why not Terri Clark Elizabeth Cook Sunny Sweeney Miranda Lambert Ashley McBryde Ashley Ray Jaime Wyatt Tessy Lou Williams Mickey Guyton
Jamie Lin Wilson Whitney Rose Lindi Ortega
Michaela Anne Sarah Shook Kellie Pickler Leah Blevins Dori Freeman Molly Tuttle Caitlin Cannon Laura Mascitti Nora Jane Struthers Jessi Alexander, etc.
OneBySea
July 14, 2020 @ 2:10 pm
Don’t quite “get” Margo, although I’ve tried a couple times. Haven’t seen her live, so maybe that’s the problem. Anyway… to me it’s one thing to be having wild success in a genre and decide to leave it behind, quite another when you’re struggling to live up to the hype that’s been foisted upon you. Hard to blame someone for changing direction in the latter scenario.
That said, the point about the media putting all their eggs in the Margo Price basket is well taken. That “liberal woman takes on conservative country establishment” storyline must be a hell of a drug.
wayne
July 14, 2020 @ 6:53 pm
Yes, and they are overdosing on it
Kevin Smith
July 14, 2020 @ 2:54 pm
Ive thought about this issue a lot. You take Margot as a for instance. She came on the scene with a Third Man Record deal and an introductory single “Hurtin on The Bottle” It sounded very traditional honky-tonk and she had a southern drawl to boot. Great! Potential! Promise! A new face on the scene whos gonna go places with traditional country and bring it back to radio , maybe. Didn’t happen of course. Country radio isnt allowed to even look at her, shes on a small label that has no affilitation with music row and its too traditional sounding. So mainstream country fans dont get to hear her. Who does? Fans of Jack White, Readers of SCM, hipsters, and eventually as her political leanings come to light, the Rolling Stone and the SteroGums of the world declare her as the next great thing. And of course by default she lands in the Americana realm for a small but niche audience who will listen to her. Stapleton took her on the road and gave her big time exposure to the masses, and no doubt that helped expand her base, but it didnt lead to super-stardom. I remember seeing her open for Stapleton and she was great. Tremendous live show. But many who were there were busy tailgating while she was onstage, and through no fault of hers a large portion of the crowd wasn’t in the seats and missed her entirely.
At the end of the day, shes an act who can sell out small venues but nowhere near the next level. So here we are now. She has an established fan-base and assuming live shows are allowed to happen again, she will have the ability to earn a living playing to her fanbase. But its not gonna be substantial money at this point, thus she has to keep a day job, which prior to Covid, Im told was tending bar at a small Nashville joint.
So, is she bored with country? Maybe so. Whats to keep her there, slugging it out for small time gigs and not a great payout? Will adapting a Rock and Roll vibe bring her to the big time? Doubtful. So , at this point I think shes pursuing her own muse, wherever it leads. Hard to be overly critical IMO. Whitney Rose is headed in the same direction. This is sad but definitely a trend.
Di Harris
July 14, 2020 @ 3:15 pm
I think part of Margo’s problem is, “she works it too hard.”
If you want to go balls to the walls rock, then do it.
She lacks the finesse & class of a Stevie Nicks, Tina Turner, or, the authenticity of, Janis Joplin.
Rob Lee
July 14, 2020 @ 3:28 pm
I’ll stick with Miranda.
Tom Mark
July 14, 2020 @ 4:12 pm
All great comments. Thanks Trigger !
DJ
July 14, 2020 @ 4:18 pm
Personally, as a non-professional, I prefer KT Oslin-
Or Crystal Bowersox-
Dee Manning
July 14, 2020 @ 4:37 pm
I just don’t like her voice….
Trudie Jackson
August 9, 2020 @ 12:19 pm
I scrolled all the way down looking for a comment like this. I do like her voice, and have never seen her live. But even as I listen to her, the thought “I bet a lot of people don’t like the voice” swirls through my head.
Marshall
July 14, 2020 @ 4:48 pm
“It was about fighting for something bigger than any individual artist, and believing in something bigger than yourself.”
Trigger,
These are words that I (and prob’ others) needed to hear today. I enjoyed the article, but I took what you said there in a larger context.
The virus has shut down live music completely in my town, and eroded hard won progress, be it, band members or working opportunities. Reasons to stay on task, and not give way to coasting, counter productively, are in short supply. The idea that making real country music is a cause greater than ones own ambition, resonated, and gave me some added motivation to start the day. I suppose this message has been part of the fabric of your site all along , but those words, from this article really rang true.
While I’m at it, let me say a belated thanks…for your helpful response to the question I sent a few weeks ago. -M. Craver
Trigger
July 14, 2020 @ 7:35 pm
I don’t know what happened with this thing. When Sturgill Simpson and Margo Price first emerged, they were tongue lashing the mainstream, holding it to account, criticizing it for being corrupt and running afoul of the roots. Now they seem to be embarrassed to even be called country. Think about all of those fans, DJs, writers, local venues owners and festival promoters that bought into this thing and believed in them. Now all of a sudden, they’re the ones being called selfish for having believed what they told us. Luckily, there are still many artists out there that do believe in the importance of country music, and taking it back.
Jeff
July 14, 2020 @ 8:56 pm
It’s because they are frauds.
Craig
July 14, 2020 @ 6:36 pm
The truly interesting thing here is that, by way of country, rock and roll is coming back (Isbell, Simpson, etc). If the price of this excellent rock record, which maybe catches on with pop radio and brings rock and roll back to the radio, is that country loses Margo Price, then it’s completely worth it. I mean this what Stevie Nicks could have been but never quite was. Country may be dying but rock has been dead and buried for a long time. Bring rock back, and country will follow, eventually, because they share the same roots.
Di Harris
July 14, 2020 @ 6:48 pm
Isbell, Sturgill, and Price, rock ‘n roll?
Not even close.
Stevie is in a class all by herself, as is Buckingham, Fleetwood Mac, etc.
618creekrat
July 15, 2020 @ 8:50 am
Yeah, I think proclaiming Margo the female savior of R&R is about as presumptuous as proclaiming Sturgill the male one. And there’s been loads of the latter in these comment sections.
Like Country, Rock is not a talentless void. The talent is there, it’s just disconnected from mass broadcast media. Looking at current performers, give a good listen to Samantha Fish, Beth Hart, and Haley Reinhart; now tell me, why should Margo expect palm fronds strewn upon her path? Frankly, she’s jumping from one small pond to another.
Di Harris
July 15, 2020 @ 1:15 pm
Thanks Creek!
Will give the artists you mention a listen, sometime this weekend.
Fortunately, Hard Truth Hills, in Brown County, (Nashville, IN.) is still having live concerts on the weekends.
Hot, Hot, Hot outside, but think some of us are going this weekend.
Do our tiny part to support
Eric
July 15, 2020 @ 4:03 am
Country, jazz, rock, and even to some extent rap are all ultimately rooted in the blues (both white and black). The latter 3 all became worldwide genres that successively dominated pop music. Throughout its history, country has always partly served to carry on a pop genre that has faded from the pop world.
In the late 1950s, as jazz started to fade from the mainstream, country carried on jazz-like music in the form of the Nashville Sound, which remained dominant all the way until rock arrived through the Outlaw movement.
Similarly, in the mid 1990s, as rock faded from the mainstream, country carried on classic rock in the form of the post-Garth and post-Shania sound, which dominated country radio until rap influences arrived through bro-country.
It’s quite remarkable how cyclic the interaction between country and pop is.
Natty Bumpo
July 14, 2020 @ 7:35 pm
After listening to that album I’m not sure what I heard in my mind qualified as rock n roll. It’s not country either. Nor is it pop. It’s not Americana. It sounds like a Stevie Nicks attempt at making a Sarah McCloughlin(sp) record. She doesn’t quite gel most of the time on this studio music but a live version might come across entirely different and hopefully better. There seems to be a whole crop of neo-country singers that have a strange concept of rock music and other genres and how they think their voice and style is perfectly suited to crossover. I blame The Band Perry for much of this. I’m still waiting for one of these folks to expand into emo industrial metal or mumble rap. At least it would be something no one else has tried so far.
robbushblog
July 15, 2020 @ 12:47 am
I finally listened to and saw her on The Grand Ole Opry. She started out fine. She gave a brief “message” before completely slowing down “Skip a Rope” to where it didn’t have that same whip-snap rhythm. I prefer the original. Then, as if her previous short message and message song weren’t enough – I guess subtlety ain’t her thing – she talked down to the audience with some preachy message before launching into her next song – acting like she’s better than “all you people out there”. I found it a bit distasteful and condescending. If she feels that way about country music fans watching The Grand Ole Opry, maybe she should continue making rock and roll records and not bother coming back.
Trigger
July 15, 2020 @ 8:38 am
I was never convinced about anything in life by somebody who started by calling me stupid. By the LA Times emblazoning that in the very title of their feature on Margo Price, they perfectly illustrate how her outspokenness is not only ineffective, it is repelling, and hurtful to the cause. Margo Price will tell you she’s speaking up against injustice, which personally, I don’t have a problem with. My problem is when she does it in such a down-looking manner, which is often done by individuals who are afraid to face their own iniquities.
Kevin Smith
July 15, 2020 @ 1:16 pm
Rob, I saw that Opry performance too, sadly. I think she lost her audience when she started lecturing them. Its not the way to win folks over to your cause by talking down to them. What endears an audience to a performer is when they see the performer genuinely relate to them on some level. This came off like ” im here on this strange stage singing to people I don’t like but I’m gonna take the time to lecture you because I know more than you.” Bunmer, an opportunity to build her fanbase , but probably didnt.
And as for the suggestion to put Blues Lady A on the Opry, that makes as much sense as putting Pavarotti on the bill at Ozzy Osbournes metal festival. A nice sentiment but very different genres.
Greg Green
July 29, 2020 @ 8:08 pm
“We have a serious problem with racism in this country and, if you have small children and we still have it in thirty years, it’s your fault, so please teach your children well.”
Yikes. She must be unpopular at family gatherings too.
clayton
July 15, 2020 @ 4:29 am
You lose me when you start writing about how “you cannot even constructively criticize Margo Price.”
Of course you can. But, if you criticize somebody, you better expect to get criticized. If the right people see your articles, you’re going to get plenty of the easiest responses. Criticize a woman? Somebody’s going to call you a sexist. Criticize a popular artist? Somebody’s going to call you jealous. Criticize a Democrat? Somebody’s going to call you a Republican.
It might be annoying, but you’re not solving that problem by whining about it, so get over it.
Honestly, I think most of your beef is with PR teams and managers more than artists and media. PR people and managers seem to measure success by total articles and appearances. They don’t recognize that music fans can be turned off by having an artist shoved down our throats. It’s why a lot of us have turned off our radios. We’re tired of having a handful of artists forced on us.
Trigger
July 15, 2020 @ 8:45 am
When I say things like, “you cannot even constructively criticize Margo Price,” I’m not just speaking on my own behalf. You would be BLOWN AWAY by the amount, and the individuals who have reached out to me personally and privately with atta boys for saying what needs to be said about Margo Price, and cutting against the grain of the Margo Price echo chamber. The reason they can’t speak out publicly is because it would be Americana music suicide. You can speak out about someone like Sturgill Simpson. That’s fine. Margo Price is untouchable. There is a specific effort to suppress negative speech about her with dire consequences if you run afoul of it, which I have paid for specifically. But I do it, because someone has to. And again, it’s so important to understand that this inability for the press to do anything but praise Margo Price in my opinion has been a disservice to Margo Price through the result of continuing to release mild albums that will not resonate with the wider public like they should, while more worthy artists get overlooked. This is not a personal beef. This is about the music community functioning properly through the medium of artistic criticism.
Musiccityman
July 15, 2020 @ 4:57 am
Margo as “country musician” was entirely a creation of the media. She went from hanging around Nashville hipster bars flaunting her psychedelic rock cred, to appearing on late night shows like the second coming of Kitty Wells. It was fascinating to watch as an insider, but also deeply sad to see country fans deceived yet again.
Corncaster
July 15, 2020 @ 5:14 am
“Margo Price leaves a gaping hole in country music”
Greatly exaggerated. Some people had hopes she’d be country music’s Janis Joplin, but it didn’t work out. No big loss. She’ll continue to have modest success as an Americana act, making pseudo-rock music for people who don’t dance.
Has anyone ever asked Tyler about young women singer songwriters he respects besides Lady May? Country music fans might be interested to know.
Cool Lester Smooth
July 15, 2020 @ 11:04 am
The Local Honeys opened for him in Europe, and they’re fucking awesome.
They played their own set the next night in a smaller venue, and I honestly preferred it to Tyler’s.
Corncaster
July 15, 2020 @ 4:53 pm
Subbed, thanks.
Musiccityman
July 15, 2020 @ 2:48 pm
I absolutely LOVE “for people who don’t dance”. Hi five new friend.
J Burke
July 15, 2020 @ 5:41 am
She may have left country music but apparently is available to give advice to the Opry on who they should book.
Jake Cutter
July 15, 2020 @ 8:22 am
Perhaps she should have given up her privileged slot, or at the very least brought her on (socially distanced) stage. That would have made her a REAL hero, but I guess making demands of other people is a little easier, isn’t it.
Erez Schatz
July 15, 2020 @ 6:07 am
While I appreciate your opinion and the way you conveyed it, it seems a bit odd, especially considering you keep bringing up Jason Isbell which isn’t really country as much as being country infused rock. His music is what you’d get had Bruce Springsteen been born in Nashville rather than New Jersey. In many ways, he’s going the opposite direction, not musically, but in the way he’s positioning himself as country and Americana despite not really being there, stylistically. So while he isn’t going to go around badmouthing country the first option he’ll get, isn’t hailing him as one of country’s current crop ending up taking another spot from a “real” country artist?
Trigger
July 15, 2020 @ 8:52 am
This is a fair point. One of the reasons I continue to bring up Jason Isbell is because for many years (though tapering off recently), the media loved to portray Isbell, Stapleton, and Simpson over and over as the country music saviors. For many reasons this was ill-conceived. But Isbell does make for a good test case and discussion point here. He’s an independent artist that is adjacent to the country music community who has topped the Billboard Country charts three times now without any mainstream radio play, and less opportunities than Margo Price. He’s a perfect example of how it’s unfair to Americana and its artist to say there’s a “glass ceiling.” I agree he’s definitely more rock, but he also never tried to pass himself off as country, where artists like Margo Price and Sturgill Simpson portrayed themselves as the beacons of the country music insurgency, and then seemed to change course.
Gigi Cocomo
July 29, 2020 @ 9:45 pm
I would love to hear how Jason Isbell has had “less opportunities than Margo Price” and how he was subject to a glass ceiling. And I’m pretty sure he would say the same.
Tex Hex
July 15, 2020 @ 7:00 am
I haven’t ever paid much attention to Margo Price one way or the other, but I wouldn’t begrudge her for “leaving” a genre she couldn’t get much traction in anyway. I wouldn’t say she squandered opportunities she didn’t deserve. She just couldn’t convert those opportunities into major successes. Fair enough.
I would, however, begrudge somebody like Sturgill Simpson leaving the genre. Not just leaving, but doing so gracelessly – talking smack with middle fingers up the whole way out.
Somebody like that built his name and career in country, off country fans who invested time, love, and money in him as a country artist. That’s the distinction. Sturgill did something worse than Margo – he squandered the devotion of his fandom, and dismissed everything that made him a star to begin with. Margo would be so lucky to have ever been in that position.
(yes, I know Sturgill hasn’t quite left country yet, what with the forthcoming bluegrass album, but he’s sure been acting like it)
R.A. Mueller
July 15, 2020 @ 7:12 am
To say I have an issue with Margo Price would be an overstatement–because I just don’t particularly care about her enough to have an issue with her. For whatever reason her music never engaged me. There are a few of her songs that were decent, but nothing that ever made it into sustained rotation for me, and her albums didn’t grab me either. I don’t care for her political leanings, but I don’t recall knowing about those until recently. I just never found her to be a particularly interesting artist.
albert
July 15, 2020 @ 7:52 am
if you don’t like your job , you need to leave it . if not for yourself but for your boss , your customers , your co-workers and your family . oh yeah ….and your work suffers .
nobody wants to work alongside of or be around an unhappy person .
I wish more of the mainstream artists didn’t like their jobs.
Trigger
July 15, 2020 @ 8:23 am
Sure. But maybe also not rook everyone into thinking your really care about country music in the first place. Nobody was surprised or disappointed when Taylor Swift left country. We were thankful.
albert
July 15, 2020 @ 8:41 am
i think we’ve lost count of the number of folks who rooked people into thinking they cared about COUNTRY music , trigger . maybe this is where ‘gatekeepers’ were kind of a good thing . hell…even the labels play this bait and switch game
”you want chocolate cheerios this month. ?….. with strawberries ..? you got it ”
whichever way the wind blows .
Natty Bumpo
July 15, 2020 @ 9:25 am
Yep. Folks it’s what I call the CMC. Country Music Condom. They put it on to fool people and make their name and then throw it away as soon as they get through.
Because country music folks for the most part are accepting and welcoming people who enjoy watching new singers have success they are easily taken advantage of by charlatans over and over again.
I’ve listened to her new music twice now. For the most part it’s not very good at being rock or country or anything else. But when she doesn’t succeed she’ll come crawling back to the open arms of the folks she lectures and looks down upon just like some of the others because she knows you love her.
Michael Ross
July 15, 2020 @ 12:42 pm
As you imply in your insightful, informative piece, she doesn’t resonate. I would posit that she is just not that good. She may put on an energetic show (I have never seen her live), but every time I hear her on WMOT (who play her a lot) I an struck by her pitchiness and the fact that her tunes seem to start with a good idea but don’t have the song craft for which Nashville is famous. I anyone deserves to be more famous as a standard bearer for independent women in country it is Elizabeth Cook.
Di Harris
July 15, 2020 @ 1:38 pm
Poor Margo is a legend in her own mind.
I’ll go ahead and say it … just because she think’s she’s untouchable, because of the bottom feeders that are promoting her …
Her demise is already happening …
Will just take several months, to a couple years …
Euro South
July 15, 2020 @ 4:49 pm
There ought to exist a country music subgenre about people leaving country music for some perceived better musical world.
Euro South
July 15, 2020 @ 4:59 pm
Come to think of it, the one truly great song Margo Price wrote, “Hands of Time”, could be construed as being about that.
Scott
July 15, 2020 @ 8:04 pm
This whole thread is even funnier if you read every comment in the voice of Dwight Schrute.
CountryKnight
July 16, 2020 @ 7:16 am
She can leave and take “Pay Gap” with her.
Nothing more than a media creation.
Hank Charles
July 16, 2020 @ 7:47 am
I don’t disagree with the sentiment, Trig. There have been a lot of resources exhausted on Margo over the years. I never felt that her music was predominantly country though. She more fell into the catchall trap of Americana because of the understated Blues elements in her music.
I have to admit though, I thought the album was pretty cool. It’s clear she went into it with the intent to “make a Stevie Nicks album”, and came out with something a little more than a watered down, Fleetwood Mac album with a little 80s era Heart influence here and there.
“Letting Me Down” and “Gone to Stay” were great tracks.
It’s not her best work, but it ain’t Sam Hunt.
Jason
July 16, 2020 @ 8:19 am
I’ve seen Margo live and listened to her albums but she has never really appealed to me. My wife really likes her music. What I don’t understand is the feeling of ownership that any genre has over an artists artwork. It’s has always and will always happen that artists will change and even experiment in other genres. (Alan Jackson had a damn song about it happening but only going the other way.) If an artist puts out an album outside of the genre that you so dearly love then either don’t write about or show positive support because as SCM are you really a good critic of another type of music since you are so hyper focused?
CRay
July 16, 2020 @ 4:15 pm
If her and Sturgill had a love child it would have horns and hooves. They both need to get over themselves.
anon
July 17, 2020 @ 12:59 am
kacey musgraves already did the cool pot smoking liberal chick thing, but without shitting all over her fans. lame
Charlie
July 18, 2020 @ 9:12 am
“ many Margo Price fans will be unwilling to read this deep into a think piece …” Ouch!
Well, now that she’s “gone rock”, you won’t have Margo Price to kick around anymore.
Karl
July 18, 2020 @ 3:45 pm
Is rock ‘n roll even still a thing? lolol
jessie with the long hair
July 26, 2020 @ 7:57 pm
She can’t sing. Terrible tone, terrible phrasing. Her songwriting is sophomoric. There are just so many more really, really talented female country and rock-n-roll singer/songwriters that I can listen too. Hype doesn’t always work.
Jimmy Dior
March 13, 2023 @ 7:22 am
Was never knocked out by Price. Seemed like she was always being pushed on us. Her songs are meh and her voice the same.
Not to mention the fact that she’s taken to dressing like a stripper. What is the deal with these female Country/Americana artists dressing like Vegas prostitutes? How country is that?
Margo May not be great but she’s like Dolly Parton compares to Amanda Shires though
Don’t get me started on Shires horrific tone deaf singing and horrible albums. She should stick with the fiddle. She may have sold her soul to the devil.