Security Guard was “Aggressor” in Moonrunners Stabbing – Updated
On Friday, April 25th, a security guard working the Moonrunners Festival at Reggie’s Music Joint on South State Street in Chicago was stabbed in the lower left abdomen by what police and witnesses describe as a transient outside of the fest. The security guard was admitted to Northwestern Hospital in Chicago and was in stable condition after the incident. The transient also sustained undisclosed injuries, and was also taken to Northwestern. The transient was initially detained and was in custody pending charges, but according to Chicago police, has been released after it was found by investigators that the security guard was “the predominant aggressor.”
“They [police investigators] were questioning the so-called offender,” Officer Ganel Sedevic of the Chicago police tells Saving Country Music. “He was released without charging. The victim refused to prosecute. There’s notes [in the police report] stating the ‘quote, quote’ ‘victim’ was actually the predominant aggressor.”
The individual who stabbed the security guard was part of a bigger group of transients with dogs and instruments that were hanging out near the venue. The stabbing did not happen on the private property of Reggie’s, but slightly down the block from the establishment according to police and witnesses, creating speculation of why a security guard would be engaging individuals off private property, and why police weren’t called to handle the issue. “They had been asked to leave multiple times,” Jason from Reggie’s told Saving Country Music on Saturday. “It was like the 3rd or 4th time they’d been asked to leave. They apparently got violent at that point, started throwing things at the security guard, and then started throwing punches. And so the security reacted, and then one of the transients pulled a knife out and stabbed the security guard.”
A number of accounts said that police were called before the stabbing to deal with the transients, but according to Chicago police, no calls were made until the stabbing. There were also reports that the transients were harassing other businesses in the area, but police received no notification of that either. “We had no calls for that exact address, besides for the person stabbed that whole day,” explains Officer Ganel Sedevic. “I also ran a search for the 2000 block and the 22oo block, and those [stabbing] calls were the only ones that came in. I did a two block range from 2000 to 2200 South State. There were different calls, but they were all for the same incident. They were all within a minute, or a minute-and-a-half of each other.”
Questions Of Whether Transients Were There for Moonrunners
Shortly after the incident, the promoter of the festival addressed the crowd and said the incident had “Nothing to do with Moonrunners.” However according to multiple witnesses, including one that was part of the group of transients, one of the members of the party had a ticket to the fest and was inside for most of the event on Friday, and the group had traveled to Chicago to be a part of the festival. Some of the members of the party remained outside to look after the dogs, gear and instruments. “We took a 26 hour train ride from [Tennessee] to catch this show. And so we wanted to hang out with friends….We weren’t asked three or four times to leave. We were asked once, very rudely and after that, we were threatened with violence. So we moved down the street. After couple hours of mingling, we were getting restless. While my boyfriend was at the show, we decided to move back to the corner to discuss how we were going to get back downtown. Not even five minutes of resting our packs, a security guard was spraying us with bleach water. As soon as my friend stood up, the mob of guards came and assaulted my friend.”
Robbie Glick, the owner Reggie’s, told Saving Country Music, “I know that they were outside all day and they weren’t inside. It’s not like they were going back and forth or anything with the dogs. They were just hanging out and begging all day. I’ve never seen those people around here before, but I’ve seen people like those people. It’s hard to differentiate. We’ve never had that kind of problem at our place before as far as that type of panhandling. We have the typical intercity panhandlers.”
Questions About Saving Country Music’s Reporting
Josh Nutting, the promoter of the Moonrunners Festival yesterday said about Saving Country Music’s reporting of the incident, “They are reporting a mostly false exaggeration, one sided opinion. The fella from ‘Reggie’s’ quoted in said article was not even on site and not an actual employee at the venue, but, rather a record store clerk upstairs.”
When Saving Country Music called Reggie’s on Saturday and asked to speak to someone in authority, a individual named Jason answered the phone. Today when Saving Country Music interviewed Reggie’s owner Robbie Glick, he said there was no issue with anything said by either Jason or Saving Country Music in the initial report. When the quotes from the employee Jason were given verbatim to Mr. Glick, his response was, “Yeah, that’s good. I think the point the promoter was making was that they (transients) were not part of the crowd from Moonrunners. They didn’t have a ticket to the fest. They didn’t have anything to do with it. They didn’t have friends in the show. They weren’t waiting for anybody.”
Reggie’s Owner Defends Fest & Security Guard
Reggie’s owner Robbie Glick also came to the defense of his security guard, and the Moonrunners Festival. “[The security guard] didn’t do anything. He was trying to break up a fight. He was not being aggressive at all. The festival was a great festival. [The promoter] does a great job with it. He really wants it to do well. He doesn’t want anything negative coming down on it. Just because this happened, doesn’t mean it needs to be turned into a negative fest.”
– – – – – – –
Also according to police, the ages of the alleged victim and the alleged aggressor were incorrect in the initial police reports. “Our initial notification had approximate ages,” Officer Ganel Sedevic says. “Our person stabbed was 26-years-old. The alleged offender that was released without charging is 24. The initial notification age was a little bit off.”
Though the promoter of Moonrunners has demanded Saving Country Music run a statement from the fest about the incident, no statement has been provided.
****UPDATE****UPDATE****
(4-29) – Kevin Curtain, a member of the band Black Eyed Vermillion that played Moonrunners, and a writer for The Austin Chronicle, posted a harrowing account of the incident on austinchronicle.com :
I exited for a smoke exactly as a tussle between a street kid and the Reggies security staff escalated to a dire level. The altercation, which had apparently begun when an employee sprayed cleaner on a loitering crust punk, quickly went from fistfight to mob beatdown about 40 feet from the club’s patio. The transient, part of a group that included two female friends and two dogs, was overtaken by four guards and stomped when he brandished a knife.
Suddenly, a security guard emerged from the scrum clutching his bleeding stomach and groaning, “That fucking crust punk stabbed me!” His coworkers and one volunteer ass-kicker pinned the attacker to the ground and repeatedly slammed his head into the concrete. As the brawl dispersed with approaching sirens, the kid sobbed loudly, his face awash with blood and one eye bulging from a visibly crushed socket.
He scrambled to retrieve his whining puppies while one of his female companions lay inexplicably unconscious on the ground. Soon the police arrived, hung caution tape, hauled members of both injured parties into ambulances, and exited. The blood on the sidewalk remained, a reminder that you need to watch where you step in this world.
Everyone was in the wrong, but I felt sympathy for the stabber. He wasn’t there by coincidence. Whether he was a fan of the music or a hanger-on to the scene, he’d surely arrived hoping for a good time, not emergency face surgery at the ER. Being semi-homeless and annoying didn’t warrant the treatment he got.
No-necks bouncing at clubs will always tell you they’re just doing their job, but this was all tribalism and testosterone. In the VIP room, one of parties involved bragged to me about how they’d made that “Oogle’s face swell up like a pumpkin.” Good god. There were no victories here.
Another artist who played Moonrunners, Pearls Mahone, has given an update on the severity of the security guard’s injuries. “My security guard friend has had major surgery, he has 25 staples down his midsection due to internal bleeding and will be unable to work his day job as a laborer or security for a few months at least! He has a young daughter to support.”
April 28, 2014 @ 3:12 pm
THOSE PEOPLE….
“I”™ve never seen those people around here before, but I”™ve seen people like those people.”
dude’s just a little judgmental isn’t he??
April 28, 2014 @ 8:16 pm
There’s a population of “train kids” / travelers that are squatting in Wicker Park, a neighborhood north and west of Reggies. This specific group of kids have been quite disrespectful to businesses, patrons/shoppers, and the neighborhood itself. The Wicker Park homeless population actually were quite fed up with the train kids behavior and they were assaulted a few months back.
Some people have manners and respect, some do not.
I think that’s what Robbie meant, by “those people”…..seeing people like those people.
April 28, 2014 @ 3:56 pm
The conflicting stories from Reggies and the group are interesting, not sure who to believe. It seems more like a Reggies issue than an issue with the fest though, which it should have been a Reggies issue all along. The fest relies on Reggies for security and pretty much everything, so it’s up to them to keep things somewhere close to sane. My side of it is that people heard about it that it happened, but it didn’t affect anyone’s good time at the fest. There was no other violence or a culture of violence around the fest. This was just an isolated incident between a group who may or may not have been there for Moonrunners and a security guard.
Also, who brings dogs, “gear” and instruments to an in-door festival inside a major city? A) You’re not going to play, B) there is nowhere for your dog, I saw a big dog tied up outside of Reggies one day and thought it was a cruel thing to do to the animal to leave it outside all day like that and C) why carry a bunch of gear to a fest where you have nowhere to sit it? If they were there for Moonrunners, they were doing it wrong.
April 28, 2014 @ 4:39 pm
“The conflicting stories from Reggies and the group are interesting, not sure who to believe.”
I think it’s very telling that the police sided with a gutterpunk transient over a local security offer. How many times does that happen?
“My side of it is that people heard about it that it happened, but it didn”™t affect anyone”™s good time at the fest.”
That is what bothers me the most about this story. A security officer is spraying cleaning products (allegedly) and kicking the shit out of the same people a lot of these bands sing about in their songs and emulate on stage, that have traveled many miles and are fans of this music, and the only person who cares is a journalist 1000 miles away? What happened to taking care of each other? Moonrunners didn’t disregard them, they disowned them. I have little doubt those kids were being a nuisance, but if they were not on Reggie’s property, it was a matter for the police. Was there any concern about the condition of the two people transported to the hospital from the festival? It happened, and then all the entities involved did their level best to distance from the entire thing, instead of stepping up, taking responsibility where responsibility needed to be taken, so that lessons could be learned so it wouldn’t happen again. Did anyone see the conflict brewing, and try to diffuse it? Has the security officer been reprimanded or fired? It seems like a lot of the people involved want to take the Sergeant Shultz attitude with this thing. “Nope, nothing bad happened at Moonrunners! And anybody who tells you otherwise is an opportunist.” My guess is the dude who took a knife in the gut, and the guy who got the shit kicked out of him, and their friends and family have a dissenting viewpoint.
“This was just an isolated incident.”
Try telling that to the two people care flighted off of the Muddy Roots grounds a couple of years ago with multiple stab wounds, or a blogger whose received multiple death threats, or the widow of Wayne Mills. There were 50x the amount of people at Stagecoach and the Larry Joe Taylor Festival this weekend. Did anyone get stabbed? Per capita, I’d say it’s a huge problem. And all of these people who profess themselves as “family” by burying their heads in the sand and never professing anything negative about anything are doing more to hurt underground music than anything else because they’re unwilling to be either responsible, or honest.
“Also, who brings dogs, “gear” and instruments to an in-door festival inside a major city?”
My guess is they probably look at us and wonder why we bother with houses and car payments and real jobs when you can be free and come and go as you please.
April 28, 2014 @ 7:59 pm
I missed this event so I have no opinion. But I can tell you 187 people were arrested at the Stagecoach Festival.
April 29, 2014 @ 10:38 am
How many people were stabbed at Stagecoach?
The account I’m reading is that virtually all the arrested were tied to alcohol, mostly underage drinking, and trespassing.
http://www.presstelegram.com/events/20140428/stagecoach-2014-177-total-arrests-at-indio-country-music-festival
“The grand total for the number of arrests at Stagecoach Country Music Festival was 177, the majority of them alcohol related. Sundays totaled 54 arrests with the majority of them being for alcohol and 5 for trespassing. There were 22 more arrests than the year before. Traffic and camping all went smoothly Sunday night and Monday morning as people left Indio, said Ben Guitron, Indio Police Department.
And that’s the entire story. No assaults, no injuries, no fights even reported.
Certainly this isn’t the security issue compared to a stabbing that resulted in major surgery and 25 staples in a person’s abdomen, and apparently one of the transients getting “his face awash with blood and one eye bulging from a visibly crushed socket” while “his female companions lay inexplicably unconscious on the ground”.
http://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/music/2014-04-28/possessed-by-paul-james-at-chicagos-moonrunners-fest/
After reading Kevin Curtain of Black Eyed Vermillion’s account in the Austin Chronicle and considering the incident apparently involved numerous victims and aggressors previously unaccounted for, and also considering the amount of attendees ay Stagecoach compared to the amount of attendees at Moonrunners, I would still say Stagecoach offered a much safer environment than Moonrunners, per capita, or not.
And what makes the Moonrunners incident even worse is this attempt by the organizers to completely disown the incident by saying it had “nothing to do” with the event, when after fact finding and numerous eyewitness and police accounts, this is clearly not the case. Furthermore Moonrunners has gone out of their way to purposely attempt to discredit the press coverage on the incident. It is difficult to see how lessons will be learned, and further incidents like this will be prevented, when the very acknowledgement of the violent acts seems to be a problem with the organizations involved.
April 29, 2014 @ 10:08 pm
I can’t say there was no violence at Stagecoach. It feels like the coverage is a bit fed if you ask me. 63,000 drunk shallow pop country fans known for fighting as previously covered in articles on this site and all that is mentioned is “alcohol related” majority arrests. Many of which mention underage kids drinking but they don’t mention any other crimes. Smells fishy out there in the desert.
I’m not saying you should or should not covered the moonrunner’s stabbing. It is irrelevant to me. Someone else could write a story about how someone got stabbed outside the bar while Moonrunner’s was happening and the folks inside were able to move forward through the weekend in spite of violence outside. It’s all perspective. And it’s not my battle.
I had 2 people stabbed at Muddy Roots once. It sucked. But other than that we have had no violence over 5 years of festivals in multiple states and on 2 continents. Not even fist fights. Pretty impressive considering how much people like to party and how few rules there are. But I think it speaks to how deep the music junkies are. We are older. We have already spent our time getting in trouble. We just want to hear the music and enjoy the weekend. But there will ALWAYS be some asshole stirring shit up somewhere.
This particular time it appears to be between an employee of a venue and apparently somebody outside not i nattendance. Not inside.
April 29, 2014 @ 11:54 am
Given that this event happened in Chicago, a historically violent city, speaks volumes. And, given that the vagabonds weren’t ticket holders also raises questions as to why they were there all day.
April 28, 2014 @ 4:01 pm
Glad to hear the train hopper was let go without charges. Hopefully there are repercussion for the security guards that overstepped their bounds.
April 28, 2014 @ 7:13 pm
Hey Trigger ~
Just wanted to put some things in perspective.
Thanks to those who were at Moonrunners Music Festival II for the music and were respectful. Thanks to the Reggie’s staff for supporting roots music and booking the music we love to play.
Reggie’s is a wonderful venue that I frequent weekly if not multiple times throughout the week. The security guard that was stabbed is a dear friend of mine. I’ve seen him in multiple large concert situations and has always been stern, but fair to everyone. Reggie’s security always wants their patrons to feel safe and with a large population of homeless on Chicago’s southside, they always tell them to move along and not to loiter or beg at patrons. The local homeless and Reggie’s have a good relationship, a respectful one.
I have been talking up this festival to the security guard that was stabbed, for weeks! Telling him how much fun it would be and how everyone at the fest is really respectful and friendly. Unfortunately those who traveled all that way to sit outside of the fest and didn’t leave when asked, had to bring it to a whole different level.
My security guard friend has had major surgery, he has 25 staples down his midsection due to internal bleeding and will be unable to work his day job as a laborer or security for a few months at least! He has a young daughter to support.
I hope none of your readers are scared off to ever visit my wonderful city or the Moonrunners Music Festival! Mark your calendars friends and come check out the music of Moonrunners May 1-2, 2015 once again at Reggie’s.
April 28, 2014 @ 9:05 pm
I’ve never heard of gutterpunks. Half of me wants to think hipsterdom can’t get any worse and the other half wants to think that these people are the drifters that have always existed here.
April 29, 2014 @ 5:15 am
“Who brings dogs and gear to an indoor festival anyway.”
I’d imagine they were probably busking trying to pick up a couple of bucks from the people going to the show. Ya bring the dogs primarily cause ya can’t leave em, but also because most cops would prefer to avoid hassling a person with a dog that might or might not be ill-tempered. You could call it insurance.
I never saw the point in keeping the dog right there with you though, I’ve seen a lot of traveler kids busking in Cary Town in Richmond and I’ve seen a lot of people think about dropping a buck but then change their mind when the dog growled at them.
Prayers for the people involved in this unfortunate event.
April 29, 2014 @ 6:34 am
These types of bums have milled around my neighborhood on occasion, too. They generally smell horribly, and have mangy dogs on ropes. They spend their time begging for change and shoplifting for dope money. Luckily, the cops in my town don’t give a hot damn about “offending” them or being “judgmental,” they just run them and their filthy gauged ears right out of town.
I woke up very early one morning to a bunch of them sleeping in the grass outside of the pizza shop near my house. The owner is a hot-headed Italian guy and I wish I was around to see what he did to them when he got to work.
April 29, 2014 @ 6:50 am
I was standing out front of Reggie’s with my wife at the time, not 10 yards away, and saw the entire incident unfold. The gutterpunk acted in self-defense, period. And, other than that statement, I’m going to refrain from commenting any further publicly on this forum.
April 29, 2014 @ 7:38 am
Trig, this is not a romanticized civil rights issue. This is a “derelict stabbed a working man” issue.
April 29, 2014 @ 7:51 am
Or, better yet, an unfortunate event that could have been avoided if both parties let the police do their job. I hope everyone involved recovers quickly.
April 29, 2014 @ 10:45 am
Matt,
I am not trying to make this a romanticized civil rights issue. Some commenters are, and that is their right. However I do think there’s an issue with many of the artists dressing, singing about, and otherwise emulation an underground element, but when they show up to their event, ironically get jumped by security guards, sprayed with cleaning chemicals, and assaulted.
I do however, think there is a civil rights quotient to this story. Everybody, including homeless transients, have rights. This quote attributed to the stabbed security guard from the Austin Chronicle piece on the incident (update above)) I think paints an interesting picture:
““That fucking crust punk stabbed me!”
He also describes:
“In the VIP room, one of parties involved bragged to me about how they”™d made that “Oogle”™s face swell up like a pumpkin.””
April 29, 2014 @ 11:01 am
Stagecoach is not an urban festival. The grounds are clearly defined, and there are no densely populated inner city streets immediately beyond the grounds.
The venues of the two festivals and just about every other logistical aspect are completely different. How can there be any parallels drawn?
Are you claiming that the attendees and artists at Moonrunners aren’t good enough people? Are you saying that the show that was going on inside a bar behind closed doors should have cleared out to aid in the shit storm that was brewing outside?
Most importantly, how does this reflect badly on any facet of the festival when the assault happened on public streets between security and a group of loitering vagabonds???
As far as this quote goes:
“In the VIP room, one of parties involved bragged to me about how they”™d made that “Oogle”™s face swell up like a pumpkin.””
Context means everything. Maybe the person quoted was very close to the man who was stabbed. I’d be pretty upset if my friend was stabbed in the gut. Emotion runs hot when assaults happen.
April 29, 2014 @ 11:04 am
Even the anon individual from your other article said the only one in their group that had a ticket was her boyfriend. The others should not have been there. Had they all had tickets I bet this wouldn’t have happened.
April 29, 2014 @ 2:40 pm
The sidewalk is public property and not owned by the businesses. Security has no right to tell someone to get off the sidewalk unless they are blocking the entrance.
April 29, 2014 @ 11:49 am
Matt,
The number of arrests made at Stagecoach was offered up as a fair rebuttal to my assertions that other festivals don’t have this kind of problem. Then I offered a differing opinion based on the severity of the incident at Monnrunners, and the severity of the incidents at Stagecoach. Assumptions like, “the attendees and artists at Moonrunners aren”™t good enough people?” were in no way implied, and certainly shouldn’t be inferred, especially since the quotes in the comment came from someone who was both an attendee and artist at the event.
“Most importantly, how does this reflect badly on any facet of the festival when the assault happened on public streets between security and a group of loitering vagabonds???”
The security engaged the “vagabonds” off of private property where they have no right to lay a hand on anyone. Multiple sources, including the Chicago police, are saying those people showed up to attend Moonrunners. If Moonrunners hadn’t happened, they wouldn’t have been there. Period. That is why Moonrunners was involved. As I have said before, Moonrunners and Reggie’s really had no need to explain anything to anybody. But when they purposely said that the transients were NOT there because of the festival in any capacity, THAT is when this became an issue.
This is the quote from Reggie’s owner: “They didn”™t have a ticket to the fest. They didn”™t have anything to do with it. They didn”™t have friends in the show. They weren”™t waiting for anybody.”
This is untrue. They did have something to do with it. One of the party did have a ticket. And they were waiting for somebody. Coupled with the fact that Moonrunners is openly attempting to discredit the press coverage of this incident, and they immediately tried to spin that the incident had “nothing to do with Moonrunners” has exacerbated this story to a level it otherwise would not be at. And further attempts to discredit now the numerous accounts of what happened with only make it worse, and continue to string the story out in the news cycle.
April 29, 2014 @ 12:14 pm
“That is what bothers me the most about this story. A security officer is spraying cleaning products (allegedly) and kicking the shit out of the same people a lot of these bands sing about in their songs and emulate on stage, that have traveled many miles and are fans of this music, and the only person who cares is a journalist 1000 miles away? What happened to taking care of each other? Moonrunners didn”™t disregard them, they disowned them.”
This is the paragraph that made me apparently mistakenly assume that you are questioning the character of the promoter, security, artists, and other attendees of the fest.
I’ll bet this group often encounters situations like this where “norms” don’t feel compassion for them, or that they’re outcasts of society. The world is always unfair to them, nothing is their fault. Call me what you will but I believe these kids were loitering, being intimidating, begging, and honestly being quite abusive to their dogs if in fact they hopped a train to get there.
You can’t walk around with a dog on a rope, a nap sack, and ratty clothes while bothering people on public streets and not expect to be treated differently than a guy walking down the side walk in a suit minding his own business. It may not be fair, but it’s life. Why does this have to be so sensationalized and turned into some kind of social commentary?
April 29, 2014 @ 10:55 am
“There but for the Grace of God go I”
April 30, 2014 @ 8:01 am
I like that Willie Nelson got his 5th degree black belt instead of cutting his gutter punk hair.
April 30, 2014 @ 8:52 am
Those kids WERE NOT there for the festival. They were panhandling on the adjacent corner leading up to, and throughout the event. There were easily 6-8 of them, and only one of them managed to purchase a ticket and enter.. This was not the individual who was stabbed. The people who attended Moonrunners were the normal ilk for the most part, as I recognized many of them from Muddy Roots and other events. For anyone to denote that Moonrunners somehow was catering to or being promoted towards “crust-punks”, transients, or troublemakers is asinine. I was there the whole time, and what I have just said is the truth. Furthermore, there was a stabbing two years ago at Muddy Roots, and there are often scuffles and sometimes very unfortunate incidents at almost every festival.. With the exception of this unfortunate incident, there wasn’t one fight, scuffle, or anything close at this year’s Moonrunners.
April 30, 2014 @ 10:23 am
“Those kids WERE NOT there for the festival.”
J.B., with all due respect, this statement is completely incorrect, and was found to be incorrect many days ago. For people to continue to attempt to deflect blame from the festival and the venue by perpetuating falsehoods, and turning their backs on a group of people that make up a core demographic of underground roots fans, is almost just as disturbing as the acts of violence themselves. And those falsehoods will not, have not, and never will deflect any blame from the entities involved, but have, and will continue to exacerbate the situation, lump further blame, and extend the negative press coverage by now numerous journalists looking to set the facts straight about the situation.
The group of individuals that were assaulted by Reggie’s security staff were there for Moonrunners. Most of the group had traveled there to be at Moonrunners exclusively from out-of-state. One of the members of the group had a pre-purchased ticket for the event. This fact has been exhaustively established and well-documented by interviews, eyewitness accounts, and irrefutably documented by the Chicago police department. Specifically in the matter of the assault, The Chicago Police department, after an extensive investigation, sided with the homeless vagrant “crust-punk” with face tattoos, over a locally-based security guard with a steady job and permanent residence. How many times does that happen?
Regardless of what happened beforehand, Reggie’s security staff assaulted individuals while they were on private property, and sprayed them with cleaning chemicals, which is against the law. As Saving Country Music has documented from the Chicago Police, if any other incident led up to the stabbing, the police were never called. Furthermore, both Reggie’s and the organizer of Moonrunners have been caught lying about the nature of why the group of individuals were there, and have yet to change or take responsibility for that error publicly.
“The people who attended Moonrunners were the normal ilk for the most part, as I recognized many of them from Muddy Roots and other events. For anyone to denote that Moonrunners somehow was catering to or being promoted towards “crust-punks”, transients, or troublemakers is asinine.”
The idea that the crust punk element in attendance at Moonrunners was a freak occurrence or out-of-the-norm from the individuals that show up to roots music festivals or shows is yet another aberration of the truth. Many of the bands that play these festivals are made up of “crust punks” and “gutter punks.” I have seen dozens of these individuals at Muddy Roots specifically, and regularly see them at underground roots shows across the country. The fact that it is so important to defect any blame from the festival that the festival would disown a core of their fan base, and specifically a group of fans that were assaulted by security staff seems to be against every founding principle of “underground” music.
I don’t even think Moonrunners really had very much blame to shoulder when this incident happened. It seems the majority of the blame lied with both the security staff, and the crust punks. But this continued campaign to deceive people about the facts surrounding this situation has called everything into more serious question.
What happened to honor? What happened to taking responsibility? What happened to when incidents like this happen, attempting to get to the bottom of it so it doesn’t happen again, and create a stigma around the music? The reason that the organizer said right after the incident that it had “nothing to do with Moonrunners” is because a stigma already existed, and he knew that. And now it has been made worse, and with each attempt at wiggling out from under the situation instead of taking responsibility and showing concern for the victims and their families, the problem only gets deeper.
April 30, 2014 @ 10:42 am
How many times have you shown up to a show or festival without a ticket, without a plan to buy a ticket, and just hung out across the street? The one individual who had a ticket was part of the festival. The members of this group who were panhandling all day outside, off of the festival grounds, without tickets, and without intentions to buy tickets and enter the venue can’t be called attendees. They weren’t there to listen to music, buy merch, buy food or drinks…
If I’m standing outside of a restaurant waiting to pick up a friend of mine who’s finishing their meal, am I now considered a customer of that restaurant?
Trig, your argument that they were there for the festival is purely wrong whether you admit it or not. And, if there claim they were there for the fest they should have paid for tickets and gone inside.
It doesn’t paint a very good picture of you when you deny and discredit all the testimony of artists and fans alike who were there. Those of us who live in the real world see things like this happen often. It’s not always fair, but it is cowardly and dishonest to blame others for your own bad decisions. It’s as if you’re trying to blame everyone who was at the festival for what happened. As if the assault was a planned event and that the panhandling criminals involved were being little angels.
And, what is your motivation in all this? It appeared at first that you were being a journalist, but then you came out with all these assumptions and allegations against the promoters, artists, and attendees of Moonrunners. What gives?
April 30, 2014 @ 11:27 am
Matt,
Let me try to explain this a simply as I possibly can. This is a direct quote from Ronnie Glick, the owner of Reggie’s, who I interviewed on Monday:
“I think the point the promoter was making was that they (transients) were not part of the crowd from Moonrunners. They didn”™t have a ticket to the fest. They didn”™t have anything to do with it. They didn”™t have friends in the show. They weren”™t waiting for anybody.””
Ronnie Glick, the owner of Reggie’s, said that the promoter of Moonrunners was making four specific points.
1) They didn’t have a ticket to the fest.
2) They didn’t have anything to do with it.
3) They didn’t have friends in the show
4)They weren’t waiting for anybody.
Now, let’s look at these four points specifically.
1) The didn’t have a ticket to the fest.
Somewhat correct, and somewhat incorrect. One of the people in the traveling party had a ticket, and was inside the majority of the show on Friday. Other members did not
2) They didn’t have anything to do with it.
Somewhat incorrect. The assertion here is that they were random transient punks that were incidentally on the street and had no idea about the festival or the music being played when in truth they had traveled from out-of-state specifically to be there. Since they weren’t in attendance does that mean they “didn’t have anything to do with it”? That is a semantic argument, but since they clearly knew about the fest and meant to be there, this is at least open for discussion.
3) They didn’t have friends in the show
Completely incorrect. One of the friends was inside, and that’s why they stayed there. They were also in the process of getting ready to leave when the incident occurred. They also apparently knew other attendees, and some of the performers.
4)They weren’t waiting for anybody.
Completely incorrect. They were waiting for the person who had a pre purchased ticket for the event.
– – – – – – –
Yes, we can go back and forth all day about whether they were “part” of Moonrunners or not, but the simple fact is Reggie’s and Moonrunners attempted to paint them as being randomly in the area, with no prior knowledge of the event or the music being played. In truth they were fans of this music. They were drawn to that area because of the fest. Is this the fest’s “fault”? I don’t know, I’m not really even saying that. That is open for interpretation. What I am saying is that if Moonrunners hadn’t happened, they would have not been at Reggie’s, and nobody would have been assaulted, and nobody would have been stabbed. The way Reggie’s and Moonrunners portrayed it, they probably would have, because that specific group of transients were there anyway.
“It doesn”™t paint a very good picture of you when you deny and discredit all the testimony of artists and fans alike who were there.”
I completely disagree with this statement. I have heard from numerous people there, and there are numerous accounts, both public and private, from both patrons and performers, who say the security guards were at fault, and they were sickened by what happened, and that it DID ruin their good time.
EXAMPLES:
Mike Fiedler whose comment can be seen above, who is a venue owner himself, and a big supporter of this music. He left the festival because of the incident, and didn’t return.
Kevin Curtain who is a writer for the Austin Chronicle, was a performer at Moonrunners, and was also a patron. Here’s his account, which gives a gory account of the event, and blames the security as the aggressors, just as the Chicago Police did: http://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/music/2014-04-28/possessed-by-paul-james-at-chicagos-moonrunners-fest/
Possessed by Paul James A headliner performer at the fest also took grave issue with the incident, and spoke extensively about it. You can see it on his timeline: https://www.facebook.com/kwppj?fref=ts
I have also heard from numerous other artists and fans who were there who have said similar things, and have thanked me for my coverage on this issue. The idea that “all the testimony” from attendees has been positive is yet another piece of propaganda that prevents us from getting to the heart of the matter: Why this happened, and how it can be prevented from happening again.
“And, what is your motivation in all this?”
My motivation is the security guard with 25 staples in his gut, laid up and unable to provide for his family right now, and the individual who was heavily assaulted by the security guard, also injured to the point of hospitalization, and their family and friends. They deserve answers about what happened. As do all of us if we want to learn from what happened.
I have yet to see any statement from Reggie’s or Moonrunners if not apologizing for what happened, then at least sympathizing with the victims. Even if they feel like little or no blame should be placed on them, this happened within their presence, and this is natural for anyone to do. There is NO guarantee this won’t happen again next year at this moment. Why? Because as we saw this year, just as we’ve seen at other festivals, these type of crust punks are attracted to these events, and since Reggie’s does not see any fault in how their security acted, no changes will be made there either. Will it happen again next year? I have no idea. I certainly hope it doesn’t. But nothing, NOTHING has been done to prevent it. All the energy put out has been to deflect blame, and discredit the numerous people trying to get to the bottom of the incident, and ironically, resulted in even more coverage.
April 30, 2014 @ 11:52 am
This country is totally fucked. Carry your pistol close, work hard, be kind, and vote locally.
April 30, 2014 @ 11:07 am
Trig, J.B. was there.
Were you?
I also disagree that someone who comes to hang around outside a for-pay gig is there for it.
I didn’t want to pay ~$200 to hear Neil Young when he came to my town last year.
So I stayed home.
I don’t hang around outside other people’s places of business.
Nor do I ask people for “spare” money.
I don’t give panhandlers money.
I give as much as I can to charities.
I didn’t grow up with wealth – to the contrary, I was born in East St. Louis, Illinois (check it out on Wiki to get a feel for it), and I worked menial, dirty jobs for quite a few years.
I took city buses for local transportation and a Greyhound bus for other travel until I got my first car at the age of 26.
I am sorry that someone got stabbed, irrespective of whose fault it is.
The entire state of Illinois scares me, primarily because I can’t carry a gun with me there (it doesn’t have reciprocity with other states).
I am going to a family reunion in Illinois next month and I don’t like the notion of having to put unload and store my gun in the rear of the car when I cross into the state.
April 30, 2014 @ 11:50 am
CAH,
“Trig, J.B. was there.
Were you?”
I will repost this explanation from a previous comment:
98% of articles given by reporters in newspapers, magazines, on websites, or on local or national television news involving a criminal act are administrated by reporters that were not at the scene of the crime. If it was some sort of imperative that reporters witness the crime they write about, no crime would ever be reported on and the 1st Amendment of the Constitution would be virtually meaningless. You may feel for whatever reason that this article was unfair. But it in no way was it anywhere out of the norm of what you would see in any newspaper or local TV news reporting in any location anywhere in the world reporting on a criminal act.
“I also disagree that someone who comes to hang around outside a for-pay gig is there for it.”
I never said that.
I will try to explain this, yet again.
As has been exhaustively explained, what both Moonrunners and Reggie’s said was that, and I quote “they didn”™t have a ticket to the fest. They didn”™t have anything to do with it. They didn”™t have friends in the show. They weren”™t waiting for anybody.
These statements are incorrect, and that is irrefutable. Can we have an argument over semantics and ask “What is ‘being there for’ mean?” Sure. But that doesn’t change the fact that the transients DID come to the area for Moonrunners, one of the members DID have a ticket, and they other members WERE waiting for their friends inside. And this has all been irrefutably documented. I don’t care if someone who was there disagrees or not. They’re incorrect. It’s not worth discussing anymore. Why are we not having these type of exhaustive back and forths about what led up to the incident, and what can be done to prevent it?
You may really really like Moonrunners, Reggie’s JB Beverley, or whomever or whatever. But that doesn’t change the facts. The simple fact is there are people that were there that have a completely different account than JB Beverley. That is why facts are what matter. The reason there are so many people saying that the transients “had nothing to do with Moonrunners” is because that is how it was spun from the very beginning of the incident. And it was also immediately refuted by other people who were there, and saw the incident for themselves.
April 30, 2014 @ 11:57 am
Well, what really did happen? Neither party was charged with assault? Enlighten us all in how this can be avoided in the future. It sure as hell won’t be avoided by making some kind of public apology for not foreseeing the violence and stopping it. Why can’t people just be responsible for their own actions?
The violence occurred between security (a form of authority) and crusty beggar punks (people who hate authority). The lesson learned is don’t be a jerk, and know when to walk away.
April 30, 2014 @ 12:18 pm
I don’t know how it can all be avoided in the future, and of course you can never plan for every contingency, but the first step in solving a problem is admitting you have one, which up to this point neither Reggie’s or Moonrunners has accepted. I definitely think there needs to be a re-evaluation of the security. There’s no reason cleaning products needed to be sprayed on anyone. You won’t find that in any security guard manual. Maybe if another incident like this happens again, police should be called earlier (which was another fib I was told, that they had been. Crossed referenced with the police records, no earlier calls were ever made). They may also want to consider hiring a uniformed police officer for the event. In many localities, this is required depending on the size of the event. No loitering signs may need to be put up. They maybe could have asked the individual attending the event to leave, so his friends would leave with him.
The simple fact is though, some of the music showcased at Moonrunners attracted that “crust punk” element. But that is a discussion for another time.
April 30, 2014 @ 12:29 pm
Here’s the problem I have with the notion that those kids were there for the festival.. When the car I arrived in parked, they were the FIRST people I saw on the corner. Upon seeing them, I asked if they were there for the festival. Only one of them spoke, and he said “No.. No money.. But we’re hoping to get up enough change for the weekend to eat and get out of here”. I was later told by a staff member at Reggie’s that only ONE of those kids wound up with a ticket, and had entered to try and hustle up some money.
I agree that the crusty / transient element is present in the roots scene.. It’s present at Muddy Roots too, and various other shows / festivals. No argument, Trigger. However, most readers on here know that you and Josh have had personal issues in the past, and although that is none of my business, and although I like and respect you both, let me ask you”¦ did you do such a write-up about the stabbing at Muddy Roots? If so, I never saw it.. I’d love to read it. Also, my word is not the authority, but I was there, and I did see the aftermath of the incident, as well as talk to some of those who were involved. You don’t have to take my word for it, but I’m sharing what I know.
All past issues with Josh aside, I think had you been there, Trigger, you’d have enjoyed the music and the camaraderie, etc. That one incident was the only bad thing that happened the whole weekend, and the thing most people don’t know is that the security guard in question was being an outright bully toward that kid and his friends leading up to the stabbing.. This is NOT to say that the stabbing was justified. I think the kid who did it was a dishonorable coward.. HOWEVER, it’s only fair to note that he and his friends were getting fucked with for hanging around the venue, begging for money, etc.. and NOT BEING PATRONS of the venue / festival. I even heard one of the security guys with my own ears tell the kids “You guys aren’t here for the festival.. You’re not going to come in.. so take your panhandling down the block!”. I heard that with my OWN EARS.. So if you want to dispute that, you’re calling me a liar, my friend. And I have nothing to prove. I’m not defending Josh, Moonrunners, Reggies, etc.. I’m speaking the truth as I know it.. Those kids didn’t have friends inside.. ONE of them got a wristband and went in.. and he went in looking for money.
Let me also say, brother”¦ Those kids were STREET KIDS. They looked like train riders.. Dirty, unkempt, with dogs in-tow. I can assure you that they didn’t have $50+ a piece on them to get in and get fed / drunk, etc.. They sat outside the whole night up till the incident.. minus the ONE who got a wristband and went in. That same young man was bumming money and cigarettes. If we’re talking about honor and decency, then please let me emphasize that the only people responsible for that stabbing are the kid who pulled the knife, and the unfortunate guy who got stuck. It was a cause and effect incident, and while bullying / verbally harassing doesn’t justify a stabbing, the truth is that only those involved know the “how” and “why” of things. Respectfully, you weren’t there, and I was less than 100 feet away when it happened. Not to mention that I was there from before the music started on Friday, until Sunday morning. I spoke to those kids outside.. as well as to the staff.. and even to the police. This is not to say that my opinion or observations are the “end-all-be-all” of what happened.. but keep in mind that I was right there. That’s all I’m trying to say, my friend. Cheers. -JB
April 30, 2014 @ 1:43 pm
JB,
Once again, this issue of “were the transients there at Moonrunners” is a semantic argument that is not worth participating in. If you want to say they weren’t, that’s fine. I’m not even arguing that. What I am saying is that Reggie’s and Moonrunners lied about the nature of why the transients were there. I will cut and paste this from a previous comment, since I’ve been over this already many, many times.
Ronnie Glick, the owner of Reggie”™s, said that the promoter of Moonrunners was making four specific points.
1) They didn”™t have a ticket to the fest.
2) They didn”™t have anything to do with it.
3) They didn”™t have friends in the show
4)They weren”™t waiting for anybody.
Now, let”™s look at these four points specifically.
1) The didn”™t have a ticket to the fest.
Somewhat correct, and somewhat incorrect. One of the people in the traveling party had a ticket, and was inside the majority of the show on Friday. Other members did not
2) They didn”™t have anything to do with it.
Somewhat incorrect. The assertion here is that they were random transient punks that were incidentally on the street and had no idea about the festival or the music being played when in truth they had traveled from out-of-state specifically to be there. Since they weren”™t in attendance does that mean they “didn”™t have anything to do with it”? That is a semantic argument, but since they clearly knew about the fest and meant to be there, this is at least open for discussion.
3) They didn”™t have friends in the show
Completely incorrect. One of the friends was inside, and that”™s why they stayed there. They were also in the process of getting ready to leave when the incident occurred. They also apparently knew other attendees, and some of the performers.
4)They weren”™t waiting for anybody.
Completely incorrect. They were waiting for the person who had a pre purchased ticket for the event.
– – – – – – –
Why is this important? Because if you’re lying about why the kids there, how are you ever going to figure out how to solve the problem?
“I even heard one of the security guys with my own ears tell the kids “You guys aren”™t here for the festival.. You”™re not going to come in.. so take your panhandling down the block!”. I heard that with my OWN EARS.. “
And how does that change anything?
– – – – – – – – –
As far as being there somehow making your perspective on this morally superior to mine, please go read my two articles on this issue. All those articles are, are direct quotes from Police Officers, and employees from Reggie’s about FACTS. This idea that all of my reporting is skewed rhetoric because of some previous beef with the Moonrunners promoter, or is false because I wasn’t on site, is bunk. I actually received an account from Jim Chilson of the Ten Foot Polcats. He was there. On site. And you know what he said? The person that stabbed the security guard was a lone 60-something year old homeless person with a dog. I will cut and paste this once again about crime reporting:
“98% of articles given by reporters in newspapers, magazines, on websites, or on local or national television news involving a criminal act are administrated by reporters that were not at the scene of the crime. If it was some sort of imperative that reporters witness the crime they write about, no crime would ever be reported on and the 1st Amendment of the Constitution would be virtually meaningless. You may feel for whatever reason that this article was unfair. But it in no way was it anywhere out of the norm of what you would see in any newspaper or local TV news reporting in any location anywhere in the world reporting on a criminal act. “
If there are facts wrong in my story JB, then refute them. Tell me specifically what’s wrong. Telling me “you weren’t there” doesn’t change a quote from a police officer, or the words of the owner of Reggie’s. All this does is prevent us from getting to find a solution to this problem.
Also Kevin Curtain was there. Possessed by Paul James was there. They have both also showed grave concern for this issue. It makes me sick that some are spending so much energy to refute news stories, instead of taking responsibility. And it is furthering the exacerbation of this issue. There is nothing wrong or biased with the reporting of Saving Country Music on this issue. It is just that simple.
– – – – – – – – – – –
As for the stabbings at Muddy Roots: I have and did address them. I addressing them directly on site as the stage manager of Stage 2, on the microphone, to the crowd, twice between sets, right after they happened. I asked folks to keep everyone in their thoughts, and to take care of each other, and that if we did not take care of each other, the privilege of independent music could pass through our grips. The reason I did not address it with a direct article is because I was working the festival at the time it happened, and then spent the next 48 hours returning home. Having said that, I do regret not addressing it with a dedicated article, but I have addressed the matter, numerous times, including in this very comment thread, and in other places. I will have more about this soon, but until then, here’s some primer reading:
https://savingcountrymusic.com/why-im-changing-my-nickname-to-trigger
https://savingcountrymusic.com/a-response-to-shooter-jennings-song-the-gunslinger
May 2, 2014 @ 7:39 am
Trig, you really need help man. You have an inability to just let things go. Such a shame that a overall good web blog gets so tainted by these issues. Once you think you have facts is when your site becomes an episode of The Jerry Springer Show. Too bad.
May 2, 2014 @ 2:59 pm
“Trig, you really need help man. You have an inability to just let things go.”
…says someone who is posting a comment on a an article that was posted five days ago. I’ve moved on. We’ve moved on. I’ve posted half a dozen article since this one and am working on half a dozen more.
“Once you think you have facts is when your site becomes an episode of The Jerry Springer Show.”
What facts do I think I have that I don’t? This is the primary problem with the rebuttal to my stabbing coverage. People can say “You weren’t there” or “You’ve got a beef with Moonrunners and that why you posted this” but I have yet to see any one actually disprove any of the facts in either article, just attempt to discredit them with generalities.
April 30, 2014 @ 12:32 pm
PS: Mike Fiedler DID return.. I saw him the next morning when the first band took the stage.. Again.. I was there. 🙂
April 30, 2014 @ 1:16 pm
This is the Mike Fiedler quote from Possessed By Paul James’s thread on this issue from Facebook:
“I was not 10 yards away and watched the entire incident with my wife. As a bar owner, she was so upset over what she witnessed that I had to flag a cab to take her back to the hotel. She would not return to Reggie’s the next day.
He later said,
“in the end, nobody deserved to get stabbed and nobody deserved to get beaten, stupid senseless violence that could have easily been avoided.
The point of bringing up his quotes was to illustrate that the incident DID effect people’s “good time” and did bother people.
And not to draw the point out too far, but the idea that one person was stabbed and required major surgery, and another was beaten so bad he had to be taken to the hospital, and yet everyone inside wasn’t affected whatsoever speaks to the inhuman disconnected that may have been at the root of how the incident happened in the first place. In my opinion, everyone should have been concerned. And despite the best efforts of some to portray it otherwise, many were.
April 30, 2014 @ 1:33 pm
Oh absolutely. I mean, there’s no way in hell the folks there were trying to put aside an incident involving at least one overly aggressive person and focus on being around people they only see one or twice a year, artists they’ve maybe never seen, and simply not letting an incident that every decent individual would agree is shameful and upsetting unseat such a positive experience. No way.
I’d disagree with Saving Country Music, but Saving Country Music is “a monster of the internet”. To do so would be a fool’s game.
April 30, 2014 @ 12:40 pm
One other observation – If you’re going to single out Moonrunners for attracting that “element”, then lets broaden the argument.. The “roots” scene is about as “rootsy” these days as Death Metal. It’s gone far from traditional roots and has become a melting pot of all kinds of influence. This is true of Moonrunners, Muddy Roots, and any / every other festival that caters to this broad scene. Furthermore, I used to ride trains and live on the streets.. I’ve known plenty of transient kids over the years, and while some are indeed bad apples, most don’t bother anyone aside from asking you for some spare change or a cigarette. If you want to curtail a so-called “bad element” from a scene, then the “scene” itself has to make and enforce it’s own code. And if we’re going to point fingers, let’s get ready to do a lot of pointing.
April 30, 2014 @ 1:47 pm
Don’t worry JB, I agree, and this is coming.
April 30, 2014 @ 1:13 pm
Trig –
I am not faulting you for not being there.
But J.B. was, according to himself, an eyewitness and he is either stating the truth or lying.
I was also referring to J.B.’s quote you had printed in the preceding post (“Those kids WERE NOT there for the festival.”) – not the club owner’s various comments.
I can see how having a bunch of people hanging around outside a private sector business , who have no intention of patronizing it, can pose a problem for the owners and their paying customers.
I suspect that no one invovled lacked some degree of fault.
But you have a club owner, a promoter and artists who are all trying to work to make a living and I give more creedence to their positions than I do to the large group of people who were there to hang around out front.
As an aside, a local incident happened a few nights ago in East Tn involving the crowd control efforts of a (recently terminated) sheriff’s deputy:
http://www.johnsoncitypress.com/article/116793/caught-in-photos-knox-county-fires-deputy-accused-of-choking-ut-student-in-handcuffs
April 30, 2014 @ 2:00 pm
“But you have a club owner, a promoter and artists who are all trying to work to make a living and I give more creedence to their positions than I do to the large group of people who were there to hang around out front.”
See, this illustrates the problem with this whole discussion. If you think I am taking the word of the transients over everyone else’s, you clearly haven’t digested my reporting.
Let me break it down even further:
The promoter and the venue owner said that none of the transients had a ticket, and they weren’t there waiting on anybody. These two points are not true. It doesn’t matter what anybody says, or where they were. They are not true. It’s that simple.
April 30, 2014 @ 3:20 pm
I think the whole discussion is a little blown out of proportion. Obviously, it sucks when someone gets hurt. Problem is and it always has been, its a HUMAN problem, most humans are bad apples and yes, those bad apples make it hard for the rest of us to enjoy something we love. Watch the nightly news. Bad stuff everywhere. Cant do anything about it except look in the mirror and making sure your a good apple, make sure your kids are good apples
Lets help out the good apples that get hurt. Lets help out the great talents that entertain us. At every concert and in every place in life, there will always be bad element. Enough about apples.
April 30, 2014 @ 9:45 pm
Believe it or not Mojo, I totally agree with you. It was my intention to post a short, direct, informational article about the stabbing (which I did), maybe update it as soon as charge had been pressed or not pressed, and move on. The promoter saying that I was printing falsehoods and such is what necessitated a second article, and much of the discussion subsequently, dragging out the news cycle on this unnecessarily. As I said when I published my first article. I wrote it just as much, if not more for the people in attendance at Moonrunners as I did for anyone. The idea was to inform people, not cast Moonrunners in a negative light. It was only in the attempt to refute my coverage the additional facts had to be sought and reported.
April 30, 2014 @ 7:59 pm
Here’s what I don’t understand. How can a website for saving country music have every fact available for an incident that happened thousands of miles away, yet not have any coverage whatsoever of the actual festival itself?
Let’s say (hypothetically) that you are correct on all accounts regarding this matter. There is not a single review of the event on the home page. For a site that wants to “save country music”, I’d say that you’re missing out on an opportunity to support some of those artists who actually are by continuing to engage in this debate.
If you can’t shift you’re focus to the fest or the artists now that this subject has been thoroughly discussed, seems to me that you are deviating from your intended goal.
I just stumbled across this article from a search engine. If you want to save country music you have my full attention. If you want to focus on everything besides the music, I’ll be moving on because losing focus on the music is what gave birth to pop country in the first place.
April 30, 2014 @ 9:41 pm
Jason,
I can totally understand your concern if this is the first time coming to this site. What I can assure is that Saving Country Music is committed to covering many of the artists that were featured at Moonrunners throughout the entire year. Many of the Moonrunners performers, Saving Country Music is the only mainstream outlet that has ever covered them. With some of them, I’m the only outlet that has covered them, ever. With others, Saving Country Music has probably covered them more than any outlet ever has. For example, Hellbound Glory won our 2010 Album of the Year. They split that accolade that year with Roger Alan Wade, another Moonrunners performer. Matt Woods won the SCM Song of the Year last year. Joe Huber’s album is streaming on the site right now. And the list goes on and on. In fairness, some of the artists we haven’t covered, or won’t cover for whatever reason. But overall, Saving Country Music is very committed to many of the artists that performed at Moonrunners.
As for this notion:
“Let”™s say (hypothetically) that you are correct on all accounts regarding this matter.”
Taking into consideration my coverage of the stabbing, this statement doesn’t make any sense. The alpha and omega of my coverage has been strictly relegated to conducting interviews, checking facts, and validating information. If something could not be verified as fact, I did not post it. For example, I have interviewed three separate police officers, and two employees at Reggie’s. I posted what they said verbatim. That’s it. Even if let’s say for some reason the information is incorrect, like when the Reggie’s owner said none of the transients had a ticket, and the ones outside were not waiting on anybody, I should not be held accountable for those words. I am simply reporting what has been said. Now, I can take what was said, and balance against the testimony of the transients, and cross reference this with the police, get a confirmation number for a ticket, and determine that they indeed were there to attend Moonrunners, and one of them did have a ticket, and then present that to readers. But that is in no way me giving my opinion of what happened. Many people have tried to refute the information in this story, but every one of those attempts has been by saying 1) I’m bias. 2) I wasn’t there. 3) I didn’t mention the music, so it is irrelevant what I say. However nobody has actually refuted the facts. For example, one of the transients did have a ticket. Reggie’s claimed they didn’t. These are both facts, even though they refute themselves. But none of that information in itself is wrong.
99% of stories reported on about a criminal act, are reported by people who weren’t there. If it was a stipulation that you must have witnessed a crime to report on it, all newspapers, magazines, and local and national television news stations would immediately fold, and freedom of the press would be dead. Though it is a very sexy argument to make, “Hey you weren’t there, so you don’t know,” it is a completely asinine assertion. I know for a fact that Saving Country Music is the only outlet that has spoken to the Chicago police department on this matter, or interviewed anybody in accordance with the AP’s protocols. All of my interviews have been taped, and the sources cited.
Conversely 1% of live reviews are written by people who were not at the event to experience personally. Experiencing music and reporting on it, and presenting the facts of a crime couldn’t be two more different pursuits in the journalism world. Unfortunately, I was not at the event, and though people can attempt to hold that against me, with the expenses of traveling to such an event, and the meager wages of an independent online writer, it is at least understandable why I was not there. I wish I could have been.
However, I had spoken to an individual before the event about maybe doing a review for the site, and it was my intention to post one. However since all the drama about my coverage, we have both decided it would not be best to move forward. Ironically, the questioning of my coverage of the event has caused 1) the disillusion of my potential review (though it wasn’t a guarantee it would have been posted), and 2) Additional coverage to explain what was being refuted by the promoter of the event. In other words, it has only exacerbated the issues raised by the promoter, and others. This is unfortunate.
May 1, 2014 @ 9:01 am
I have been looking for coverage of the festival myself, the article in the Austin paper was the only thing I could find for some time, but I just looked again and there is now an article on the moonrunners site with a few pictures and review kind of deal…here’s a link:
http://www.blackcountryrock.org/moonrunners/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=450:moonrunners-music-festival-2014-a-look-back-&catid=1:music&Itemid=24 (if that doesn’t work it’s on the front page of the site)
It’s something I really would like to go to at some point (as well as the Farmageddon Fest) however Muddy Roots is by far the closest to me (& therefore the most affordable etc)..
Regardless I would love to see more coverage and hear other people’s experiences there – it sucks all around with this whole incident, but it should not be taking the spotlight as it has. It sounds like aside from this incident most folks had a good time and saw some great music…
May 1, 2014 @ 9:05 am
One last thing – I can’t believe (if it happened as described in the Austin review / article) that nobody stepped in / stood up / SAID SOMETHING our society is becoming more & more apathetic, but I feel like in this (& other) scene it’s typically the opposite where everyone wants to help out if someone is in trouble or needs something…I obviously wasn’t there, but if there were a good amount of people (even just attendees) outside smoking cigarettes etc, it seems crazy that nobody at least tried to diffuse the situation……..even crazier is that no pictures / video of the incident leaked out – that in & of itself is pretty bizarre in this day & age
May 1, 2014 @ 11:36 am
And what further bothers me is that there still seems to have been absolutely no concern for the victims of the incident, and their families, given by the organizers. Even if they feel like it had nothing to do with them, why not at least ask people to keep the victims in their thoughts, have a moment of silence, pass a jar around to help pay for the medical expenses. Anything. Release a statement that says, “Though we feel it really had nothing to do with our festival, we still want to extend our thoughts to the victims and are committed to making sure this doesn’t happen again” or something. Instead we got misleading statements about the nature of why the transients were there.
I know, because I’ve heard from them, that there were multiple people that either witnessed it or heard about it that were concerned. It could have been from fear of further retaliation from the security, or the transients, that nobody got in the middle, I don’t know. But a lot of what seems to be going on here is a circling of the “scene” wagons where people are sticking up for each other instead of looking objectively at the situation and doing their best to show sympathy and taking steps to prevent this from happening again.
May 1, 2014 @ 12:22 am
First time on this site or any site about country music. First time reading any story and comments top to bottom. First time I heard the term crust punks was at my first Moonrooners festival last weekend.
I will not dispute the facts. It’s clear you are an excellent reporter true to the craft. Conflict and chaos make great stories; they get coverage. A nice story about the music, the open minded atmosphere, the professionalism and efficiency with which it was run, wouldn’t attract much attention. But unfortunately fanning the flames of the stabbing and attempting to assert that the organizers were culpable or dishonourable makes the coverage seem biased.
False or misinterpreted statements were made. Were the facts known at the time? Should they be retracted or apologized for? That is up to individuals. But taking responsibility is not a first step in creating a change in festival safety or finding answers for families if this is your intent.
May 1, 2014 @ 11:59 am
Duane,
As has been covered and explained exhaustively (though you may have not seen it), without being there, it would have been disingenuous for me to have covered the event like I was. The nature of covering a music event necessitates you be there to experience it to then convey that information to your readers. With a criminal act, it necessitates fact finding, interviews, and investigation. As I have said, I would have loved to have covered Moonrunners, but unfortunately did not have the financial means to go. This should not in any way penalize this site, or somehow exclude me from covering a criminal act that people have a right to know about. Ironically, I did have someone on site that was willing to write a review for the event for the site. But since all of the drama surrounding my coverage, she doesn’t want to get involved, which I completely understand.
” A nice story about the music, the open minded atmosphere, the professionalism and efficiency with which it was run, wouldn”™t attract much attention. But unfortunately fanning the flames of the stabbing and attempting to assert that the organizers were culpable or dishonourable makes the coverage seem biased.’
First, it is my job to create stories that are intriguing and that people want to read. As long as it falls within the parameters of the site’s coverage map, there is nothing unethical about writing stories that appeal to readers, just as there’s nothing noble about writing stories that nobody wants to read.
I never said the organizers were culpable, nor has that ever been inferred.
I do believe they were dishonorable when they deceived the public about the nature of why the transients were there, and refused to show even a little bit of remorse or concern for the victims in lieu of separating themselves as far as they could from the incident, and smearing the press coverage of it by calling it “false”, but giving no explanation of what was wrong with it, or offering competing facts.
It is an imperative on me as a journalist to root out the truth when there is a criminal act, especially if people are lying to cover it up. This story would have been half the size, and would have been buried days ago, if the organizers would have simply been forthright about information, and maybe showed some sympathy to the victims. Like you said, maybe they didn’t know at the time why the transients were there, and there’s nothing wrong with that, or changing your story and apologizing. But to this day, they are still asserting that the transients were in the neighborhood randomly, and have yet to say anything about the victims.
Also, please understand two more things I’ve yet to address:
1) Since I was not there, I was notified about the incident by multiple people who were, who were either troubled by the incident, and/or wanted information about the condition of the victims and any criminal charges. These multiple people included performers, and patrons. I wrote my initial story as a service to the people in attendance, who couldn’t make the police calls, could follow up with witnesses and double check information, and weren’t right in front of a computer to share it. As strange as that may sound, that was my true intention. When I found out some people were not telling the truth, my intention became to get to the bottom of the matter.
2) This story is in no way out-of-the-ordinary for Saving Country Music to cover. For example, just six weeks ago,. there was a massive accident as part of SXSW. Though I was in attendance at SXSW, I did not witness the accident, but I covered it for the site.
https://savingcountrymusic.com/2-dead-23-injured-as-car-plows-through-sxsw-crowd
Funny how SXSW, the venue owner at Mohawk (the primary venue involved), the specific organizers of the events at the respective venues in the area where the accident happened, didn’t claim that the press was being overzealous or focusing on the negative. They didn’t complain that nobody talked about the music at their events, or how well organized they were. None of that happened. Every bit of information that came out from the organizers was sympathy for the victims, and concern. They cancelled and rescheduled events to show respect for the killed and injured. They started funds to pay for medical expenses. Sure, this was a much bigger incident, but per capita when you compare the size of Moonrunners and SXSW, it’s almost on the same scale.
May 1, 2014 @ 9:12 am
Trigger,
This is my first time to the site (well, second now) and I appreciate the response. This is simply my observation from an outsiders perspective.
Maybe I should provide some context. I grew up in New England with almost zero Country music exposure. My first roommates in the USMC were from the south, but only exposed me to pop country, which I didn’t care for. Later I discovered I liked some of the classics, and up until about a year and a half ago I had no idea these other bands or artists existed.
Since then, I’ve really been diving into it. Reminds me almost of when I first discovered punk and metal. Every day I seem to come across somebody new (to me) who I really like, and I have never in my almost 25 years of going to shows been made to feel more welcome than at these events. It’s incredibly refreshing and keeps me coming back.
Like most music fans, my life has enough drama. I have a job, a wife, 4 kids, and a live in Mother in law. This music and these events are where I go to forget about the weight on my shoulders for a night or two and recharge, and as a bass player hopefully garner some inspiration.
With that in mind, I left this event on a high note that carried me into this work week. While waiting on some food, I searched the event out of boredom looking forward to next year. I also searched Muddy Roots and Farm Fest making loose plans for the future in my head.
Perhaps I was looking for a reminder of the vibe I felt over the weekend. Something along the lines of “A single bad thing happening did not derail this event. Here’s the facts about that unfortunate event, and here’s a link to a review of the artists involved.” That’s not your fault. I had an expectation and was disappointed.
It does seem evident by the preceding comments that you have some sort of issue with the organizers of the event. I don’t know what they are, and I don’t care to. Like I said, I have enough drama.
What I do take issue with is the lack of coverage of even those artists you have previously supported at this event. As a fan, I’d like to know who the guy with the killer mustache picking banjo with Leroy was. As a fan, I’d like to know more about Roger Alan Wade’s performance because I missed a couple songs of his set. As a fan, I’m more interested in the music than the stabbing, and I’m willing to bet that I’m not alone. As a resource for this kind of information, I think you’re missing an opportunity to promote these artists in a positive light.
I was there and have no idea how it all went down. I came outside for a smoke and there were the emergency responders. I can tell you that everybody I talked to hoped that it was nothing serious and hoped that both parties involved were okay. I heard nothing but concern and kind hearted thoughts from those I spoke to, including a couple of the artists who played the event.
To me, that was the bigger story. Not who got hurt or why, but how the people reacted to that incident. It could’ve just as easily escalated in to something more had it not been for the general vibe of togetherness that seemed to permeate the attendees. We’ve all read the stories from different events over the years where bad things have happened. Sometimes it doesn’t take much of a push for things to descend into anarchy. People expressed genuine concern and moved on. That’s about the best you can hope for.
I don’t know you, and you don’t know me. I’m trying to look at your reporting through an impartial eye, but you seem to have a jaundiced view on the events that transpired. As much as you say the organizers are trying to distance themselves from this event, you seem to be focusing on it to a degree that I believe a sizable portion of your readers would feel is unwarranted and disproportionate.
Chicago is a city where gun violence is out of control. Two people died and fourteen were wounded last weekend alone. Had it been warmer weather that number would have only grown. For an event like this to be held indoors on Chicago’s South Side and only have this one violent incident should speak volumes to anyone who didn’t attend about how the patrons of this event behaved themselves and how well the event was organized.
Just my humble opinion.
Respectfully,
Jason
May 1, 2014 @ 12:09 pm
Jason,
I totally understand your concern. However without being there, I would be relegated to lying if I tried to cover Moonrunners. If you thought the hounds were loud about my coverage of Moonrunners now, wait until I posted how great music was that I never saw. In short, what you’re asking for is impossible. Furthermore, the smearing by the organizers of my coverage of the stabbing spoiled my opportunity to have one person who WAS there contribute positive coverage of Moonrunners for Saving Country Music.
Also, the idea that I posted articles about the stabbing in lieu of coverage of the music itself is preposterous. Or that I posted articles on the stabbing while ignoring music is preposterous. On the same weekend of Moonrunners, I spent six hours covering the Lone Star Music Awards event. I wrote album reviews for Nickel Creek and Doug Strahan. And I also covered a tree planting ceremony at George Jone’s funeral. These were all things I likely couldn’t have covered if I was in attendance at Moonrunners. So this idea that I’m somehow ignoring the music to focus on the negative is just incorrect.
Here’s the stories posted during Moonrunners, by the way:
https://savingcountrymusic.com/george-jones-remembered-in-dogwood-planting-ceremony
https://savingcountrymusic.com/doug-strahans-coal-black-dreams-late-night-schemes
https://savingcountrymusic.com/nickel-creek-returns-with-a-dotted-line
https://savingcountrymusic.com/6th-annual-lone-star-music-awards-live-blog
May 1, 2014 @ 10:19 am
Jason –
I am glad you got the opportunity to attend the festival and that you have visited this site.
Trig does a great job of covering the shows and festivals he gets to attend.
He just wasn’t able to make this event.
I have never been to a music festival and I hope to attend Muddy Roots, which isn’t far from where I live, this year.
I have always loved Chicago, but it has unfortunately become a terribly violent city.
I have been going to this site daily and, with few exceptions, most of our debate is polite, but spirited from time to time.
Come back and share your insights.
May 1, 2014 @ 1:33 pm
Enough has been said and I’ll leave it up to everyone to make their own opinion, but I do not consider you a journalist, Triggerman. I consider you a blogger. You have a clear personal agenda on multiple fronts and have stated very clearly you are free to do so. This is not a journalist, this is a blogger. I do think your initial coverage of the incident was in the realm of journalism. Your comments and your own personal agenda do not fit within that realm.
May 1, 2014 @ 5:39 pm
Jody,
I never said I wasn’t a blogger. I had a “blog” just the other day that had “blog” in the title. I blog all the time. I may blog the majority of the time. However when I cover a news story, then I approach it following the same AP protocols any journalist would, and both stories I wrote on this incident were approached in that manner. And incidentally, that is one of the reasons I did not mention anything about the music or the organization of the festival in them. Because according to the protocols of journalistic integrity, you don’t include opinion. And though you may laugh, I don’t believe I have offered any opinion in any of the subsequent comments when it comes specifically to the subject matter of the article, only clarification of the points made. Believe it or not, I have worked as a professional journalist, and still do. I’ve a published author, and have been published in newspapers and magazines, and know what is expected from professional journalism. Saving Country Music is a multi-format website where I might post a blog one day, a review the next, and a news story the next. If you want to consider it a blog, I wouldn’t say that’s too far off. I would consider it, and call it regularly, and multi-format country music website.
May 4, 2014 @ 9:47 pm
I’ve published more articles in more newspapers and magazines than you ever will and I stick to what I said, you are no journalist. No journalist at all. Whether you are a journalist or not will be judged by the lowest common denominator of what you’ve published and by that mark, you are, I say again, most definitely not a journalist. #hack
May 1, 2014 @ 2:09 pm
The notion that you couldn’t have written a post about MoonRunners Music Festival without being there is ridiculous. You have a phone, right? You could have interviewed pertinent people over the phone and written it up as something important going on, but you waited until there was an incident to mention it. You can keep changing the point, but the obvious point is you refused to cover MoonRunners because of a personal agenda, not a lack of ability to use modern communications to do and you did it because you have a long-demonstrated personal agenda against the founder of the festival. Like you’ve said many times, it’s your website and you’ll do whatever you want, but the notion that it was impossible to write about MoonRunners Music Festival without going just speaks to your own lack of journalistic ability, unless you want to agree it speaks to your very obvious personal agenda. Some “journalist.” I will now go back to completely ignoring you while you consistently are the most frequent and virus-like fomenter of feuds in the underground roots scene. Pat yourself on the back all you want, your personal deficiencies only hinder your professional reputation.
May 1, 2014 @ 6:20 pm
Jody,
The reason I covered the stabbing at Moonrunners was because I care. I care about the music, and I care about the victims and their families. I was not at the festival, and so the only reason I knew about the incident was from numerous attendees and performers reaching out to me because they cared. I wrote the initial article for the people who were concerned for the condition of the victims, and for people looking for clarification on what happened.
I have never, and will never cover a festival by phone. Nor have I ever heard of this happening, though I’m sure it has before. I had an individual at the fest who had volunteered to write a review for it, and though there was no guarantee this was going to happen or that it would have been up to snuff to publish once it was turned in, this entire possibility was destroyed when the coverage of Moonrunners became such a source of drama that it would have put her in a compromising position. It is conceit to think that I have an obligation to cover anything. Though Moonrunners may loom large in the minds of the attendees, in truth it was one of many musical events transpiring last weekend, and many that transpire all year. Larry Joe Taylor Festival in Texas is a completely independent music festival that draws a whopping 35,000 attendees. Stagecoach in California is arguably the biggest country music festival in the world, and includes many independent artists. Both these happened last weekend. And the Lone Star Music Awards also happened this last weekend, which I was able to attend, and report on.
As I have said many times before about “underground roots”, I believe it is failing. It is failing to attract new fans, or offer true material support around its artists. Though the tight-knit nature creates an anemically-sustainable bubble around some artists and may feel “special” to many people, none of the artists are growing. None of them are getting to the point where they can raise families and pay for health insurance. The ones that are, are the one who’ve removed themselves from direct involvement with the “scene”, or come to the scene from the outside looking in. One of the reasons underground roots is not growing is because of an obstinate refusal to identify problems, solve them, or be critical to each other in a constructive manner. Whenever anyone has anything critical to say, they are ostracized. Only positivity is accepted, making for a stagnant creative and business environment, and I feel the reaction to my coverage of the stabbing is a perfect example of this. In most other “scenes’ or around most other event, there would not, and has not been this type of reaction.
I wrote about this specifically a while ago:
https://savingcountrymusic.com/why-underground-country-music-is-dying-a-treatise
“An unhealthy culture of cloistered, inbred cross-promotion prevails through underground country, where small cliques of fans and bands have formed around labels, blogs, and podcasts, catering content to a select few.
These cliques promote each other within the clique, and at times may branch out farther to the “scene,” but rarely reach new blood because they are based on narrow perspectives and anecdotal experiences. It”™s an “I”™ll scratch your back, you scratch mine” culture where quality and creativity are lightly regarded compared to political importance in the scene. And if you don”™t participate in this culture of narrow, ineffective promotion of the other people in the scene or clique, you risk being ostracized.”
The above statement speaks to the root of this conflict. Most “scenes” would have been thankful for the coverage Saving Country Music offered to the stabbing. That was the reaction 5 weeks ago when I covered the accident at SXSW, or other similar news stories with a negative context. I really don’t think anyone was directly blaming Moonrunners, and I’m still not, for the stabbing. But as it immediately tried to distance itself from the incident, it continuously made it worse. I am still waiting for anybody, ANYBODY from Moonrunners to show any concern for the two people put in the hospital over the stabbing incident. Not because they are responsible, but because it happened in a close proximity of the event. And because it’s the right thing to do. Moonrunners has chosen to attempt to save face instead of show remorse. People first, then music.
May 6, 2014 @ 10:54 am
Two words: James Hunnicutt
May 2, 2014 @ 6:41 am
This is the second year of the fest. Moonrunners showcased dozens of artists true to the genre, many of which have been featured on this site multiple times, and I for one think it’s amazing that there has been no coverage on this site.
Try doing a search of the Moonrunners Festival on SCM and all that comes up are feud articles such as, “Shooter Jennings Threatens Federal Charges Against SCM”, and “Josh ”˜Jashie P”™ Nutting of Outlaw Radio Threatens Assault”.
How about a long explanatory comment about that, Trig?
May 2, 2014 @ 3:07 pm
I think it’s amazing that two people who showed up to Moonruners—one to work security, and another to busk outside while they waited for their friend—left in an ambulance, were admitted to the hospital, and who will be permanantly scarred for the rest of their lives, and still to this day, not one bit of concern has been shown to them or their families by the organizaers of the event, and instead have been attacking anyone trying to get to the bottom of what happened.
If you don’t want negative coverage showing up in search engine results, don’t have people getting stabbed at your festival, and don’t lie about someone of hacking your site. If this is all that is showing up for Moonrunners, maybe that speaks to how narrowly the event is resonating in the American zeitgeist. As I said before, from my perspective, it was even the biggest, or most important independent country or roots event that happened over the weekend. It was likely the fourth. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t loom large for the participants, but people need to get some perspective before they accuse me of being obligated to cover it. The world doesn’t begin and end with your Facebook feed.
May 3, 2014 @ 9:12 pm
I would like to know if there is an investigation at all or if the incident has simply been dropped. The police themselves have stated that the transient was acting in self-defense and was released almost immediately after treatment. This being the case I would like to see charges pursued against the security guards involved and the festivals promoters held liable for medical bills.
May 4, 2014 @ 8:43 pm
Hi there, I realize that this issue is now over a week old, but I have a few concerns about your journalism. In your initial article, you quoted a Chicago police officer referring to the stabber and his company, as “several bums” and the security guard as “the victim” You quoted an employee of the club as saying “they had been asked to leave multiple times” they “started throwing things at the security guard, and then started throwing punches” In your comments on the update article you say that if something could not be verified as a fact you did not post it. So given these “facts” after reading article #1, it is clear that this group of people were the aggressors here. “Security reacted” (I’m sure you would agree “a reaction” would be expected from a security guard, or anybody for that matter, who was having objects and fists thrown at him, while he is being paid to ensure and maintain a safe environment for the artists and patrons of an event) we do not know what the security guards reaction was, but the injuries sustained by the stabber, appear to have occurred after the stabbing. It seems pretty cut and dry to me. However, your second article headlines that “the security guard was aggressor” You actually go on to say that this was determined by the investigators. This is eroneous. What Officer Sedevic said, it that the victim refused to prosecute and that there were notes in the police report, stating that the victim was actually the predominant aggressor. These “notes” may very we’ll be the “so called offender’s” account of the incident and has nothing to do with what the investigators concluded. The facts are, a man was stabbed, did not press charges, offender was released. At no time did the Chicago Police Department determine either party to be at fault, yet you continually state that the police “sided” with a gutter punk over a security guard. Also you originally stress that the offenders (I refer to him as such, since he has admittedly stabbed the victim) injuries were bad enough that he was “admitted to the hospital” which contradicts a later statement saying that he was merely “taken” to the hospital and then detained and was in police custody. I am just finding it difficult to trust your journalism. I also don’t understand the preoccupation with the club and the promoter? It seems that this fest is very important to both the club’s staff and the events organizers. An unfortunate event occurred during this fest. The offender did not possess a ticket to the fest and was obviously asked several times to leave the premises, Of COURSE, the event coordinators want to make it clear that he was not a part of Moonrunners! Does it really matter that they knew someone in the fest? They were asked to leave and they responded to that request with violence. It sounds to me that the promoter was voicing his disproval of this sort of violence and wanted to ensure their fans that it was an isolated occurrence that was being handled. I’m also assuming that he was told that this particular person did not have a ticket. Did not intent to buy one. Was panhandling outside the club. Refused to leave when asked multiple times. Stabbed the security guard. I’m also assuming that he did not have a chance to interview and cross check references before stating that the offender had nothing to do with Moonrunners. His story that he was waiting for someone in the club doesn’t change anything for me. Whether he traveled hundreds of miles to panhandle outside a Chicago establishment specifically for the fest, or if he was a random homeless man randomly loitering outside of a random bar, does not make a difference to me. The fact remains that he was carrying a knife, used said knife to slice a mans abdomen so badly that he needed major abdominal surgery and 25 staples, debilitating him indefinitely. You say that if Moonrunners did not exist then nobody would have been stabbed. Perhaps, but that in no way makes them responsible for apologizing to anyone or for anything. Why not hold the musicians responsible? You call this young man a fan, we’ll then, the artists that he is a fan of are just as responsible as the promoter and the venue, for if THEY did not exist then this atrocity would not have happened. You say you are so concerned with getting to the bottom of this and , yet you also say that the story would have been half the size and buried if it was not refuted by the organizer. It just seems to me that you are using this unfortunate incident to defame specific individuals and I find that to be in poor taste, sir.
May 4, 2014 @ 11:04 pm
JJ,
Both Saving Country Music articles on this subject consist of calling the police, and representatives of Reggie’s, and posting their comments verbatim. If you feel those comments from these people don’t make any sense or rebut themselves or each other, this is not in any way a refection on my journalism. I am simply reporting what they said. What people said are “facts,” even if what they said is not true. My reporting on the stabbings is basically glorified transcription. At this point, this exhaustive attempt to refute my “journalism” by people who seem to have not the most basic of basic understanding of how journalism works could only be described as diseased. The articles on this subject will never be taken down or augmented. They are extremely tame and simple information pieces on a subject the public has a right to know about, and that’s imperative for the press to report on.
May 5, 2014 @ 3:02 pm
Your attitude toward comments questioning your ability is very off putting. You still feel the need to tell all of us who are questioning your ability as a journalist that we just know what journalism is.
You should step back and look at your writing from a different point of view. Journalists are supposed to report facts. They are supposed to do everything in their power, to preserve the integrity of their reporting, to make sure that what they are reporting is fact before it is published. You failed to do this, yet you still defend your writing on this subject.
Your personal vendettas get in the way of your writing more often than not. Your credibility is questionable at best.
May 5, 2014 @ 3:39 pm
Your attitude toward comments questioning your ability is very off putting
Tough shit. If you don’t like it, get off my website. I provide a forum for people to disagree with me ad nauseum, but that doesn’t not give me the right to speak up for myself and add a rebuttal. You can talk about shitty journalism and how I’m bias all day, but nothing is going to change the facts surrounding this stabbing. It happened, and immediately after it did, Moonrunners did everything in their power to disown the situation instead of taking any responsibility, or even sympathy, no matter their involvement.
If I made any mistake in my reporting, it was in caring too much. Underground roots has been dying for years, and it’s because of the ignorant, circle-the-wagons backscratching culture that looks the other way from problems and refuses to listen to any criticism. It’s amazing to be that we had two people in the hospital, and according to Mooonrunners, they’re the real victims because some people wrote a couple of news stories. I have serious questions about the ethics of anyone who would turn away from a bloody scene, and at the least not show sympathy for the parties involved. That’s a scene I’d be peacock proud to be ostracized from.
May 5, 2014 @ 5:30 am
Actually, your article says that investitors “found” the security gayrd to be the assaulter. This is untrue and misleading. At no time did anyone from the Chicago Police Department tell you that ANY determination of fault was made by the police. What was stated was the victim refused to press charges. You took it upon yourself to write that investigators found the security faurd to be the assaulter. This is simply not the case and you can not quote anyone from the CPD as saying such.
May 5, 2014 @ 3:32 pm
JJ,
This was my statement:
“…according to Chicago police, has been released after it was found by investigators that the security guard was “the predominant aggressor.””
This was the statement by police:
There”™s notes [in the police report] stating the ”˜quote, quote”™ ”˜victim”™ was actually the predominant aggressor.”
If your assertion is that those two statements are in conflict, that somehow they are as different as black and white, then you are looking at this issue through a flawed or diseased perspective. And that’s all that I can tell you.
“At no time did anyone from the Chicago Police Department tell you that ANY determination of fault was made by the police.”
That is an incorrect statement (see above quote). Nobody was prosecuted and no files were charged, because neither party decided to bring them. But that doesn’t mean fault wasn’t determined in a preliminary investigation.
Let me put it like this: If you think that the security guard is a completely innocent victim here, which I am not saying he’s not, then why wouldn’t Moonrunners step up to help him, or at the least, show the slightest amount of sympathy for him. He was there working the festival, right? Why not ask everyone to keep him in their thoughts? Why not pass a hat? Why not set up a fund for him since he’s unable to work? At this point, Moonrunners has disowned any portion of the incident, including the stabbed security guard. I think these are the questions people should be asking, not wasting time with arguments about semantics that don’t even hold water.
May 5, 2014 @ 4:36 pm
Your article was headlined “security gaurd was aggressor in moonrunners stabbing” Officer Sedevic, who was being courteous , by answering questions for a “reporter” was simply stating that there were notes in the report stating that the victim was actually the predominant aggressor. These notes were the offenders statement and NOT a preliminary determination of fault. It is unfair to the victim that you have portrayed him as the aggressor here. You made multiple contradictory statements that I will cite if youd like. These statements were not always direct quotes from witnesses or police, but your own words. But to address your concern on the matter, you are wrong about that as well. Moonrunners has a link to a fund that they have helped set up for the victim. I encourage your readers (and yourself) to find it in your gearts to contribute. (Seeing that this is your main concern, and you care. Please go to http://www.gofundme.com/joekidfundraiser again, please check your facts before making accusations about others.
May 5, 2014 @ 5:09 pm
“It is unfair to the victim that you have portrayed him as the aggressor here.”
That is your opinion. I’m sure the transients would have a different one. All I did was quote a police officer, and use that quote in a title.
“please check your facts before making accusations about others.”
I am still waiting for one fact, any fact, to be refuted with any more than a semantic argument, or generality.
I am glad Moonrunners has decided to help in doing the right thing.
May 5, 2014 @ 6:55 pm
Maybe the promoters, club owners, and staff were just being calm about the situation until all the facts were known. That fund raiser has been up for days, and a statement was made at the same time. Seems legit 😉
May 8, 2014 @ 3:05 pm
I think trying to further negativity about a music festival you did not even attend, did not cover anything about except for the outside incident is comical. There will always be contradicting statements no matter what. Especially if you were not there. Hands down. If you weren’t there and weren’t involved you do not know what happened. No matter how many people you ask. Reggies is and has always been a safe environment with an extremely professional staff. How do I know this? I live here. I am at Reggies almost every weekend and know the majority of the staff. I have also worked security at another venue in Chicago in the past and know how things work. Every step was taken that was needed. Beyond that making people think this happened because of Moonrunners? That the people who caused the incident were only there because of the fest is ridiculous. The people that were there hanging out on the corner of the venue are all over the city. They hangout in many of the neighborhoods all the time, including the one I live in which is nowhere near Reggies and have they have a history of causing problems. As a matter of fact last summer there was an incident right down the street from where I live involving violence. There was a statement released just before Moonrunners saying that the Chicago police were cracking down on these individuals. http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20140421/wicker-park/wicker-park-gutter-punks-will-be-watched-closely-this-summer-cops-say Case in point is this type of violence happens constantly in Chicago. Stabbings, shootings etc have become out of control all over the city and I could reference 100 articles and police reports to support my statement. Bottom line, coming from someone who lives in Chicago and has been here their whole life, who was actually in attendance at Moonrunners and have spoken with numerous people who were involved, what happened was unfortunate but the correct procedures were taken, the festival went on without a hitch and was a huge success. Ask anyone in attendance. born and raised. If you don’t live here you know nothing of how it is and this definitely had nothing to do with just the music festival being that weekend. It would have happened anyway. If you are loitering on a property and told to leave you should respect that and leave. End of story. The weekend went on immediately without a hitch and everyone left happy and excited to return for next year. If you’d like a tour of our fine city and how it is from a local I’d be happy to give it to you. See everyone next year for a bigger and even better Moonrunners 2015!
-Ivanna Riot
May 8, 2014 @ 3:32 pm
99% of news reports about a crime, whether in print, online, radio, or television, are reported on by people who were not there. Saying that you must personally witness a crime to report on it, or to report on it accurately is an indictment of the 1st Amendment, and frankly, an ignorant, unintelligent statement. Furthermore, it takes no consideration of the actual nature of Saving Country Music’s reporting. All I did was interview professionals with intimate knowledge of the incident, and post their words verbatim.
“That the people who caused the incident were only there because of the fest is ridiculous.”
This is completely incorrect, and has been exhaustively established by multiple, irrefutable sources, including eyewitnesses, interviews with the transients, and the Chicago Police. The transients specifically came to Reggie’s for Moonrunners. One of the traveling party had a ticket for the fest. If Moonrunners hadn’t happened, they would have not been there, and the stabbing wouldn’t have happened. This is in no way saying Moonrunners is directly to blame. The individuals directly involved are to blame. But this incorrect information being put out by some people in an attempt to shield Moonrunners is a lie, and no matter how much people drive that lie home, it will not change the facts.
But even taking your assertion that you must be there to either report or to have an opinion on the incident, please feel free to cross-reference my information with Kevin Curtain, someone who played Moonrunnes in Black Eyed Vermillion, was a patron of the fest, and is also a professional journalist for The Austin Chronicle.
http://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/music/2014-04-28/possessed-by-paul-james-at-chicagos-moonrunners-fest/
This is his words, a professional journalist, who was there, and directly witnessed the incident.
“Everyone was in the wrong, but I felt sympathy for the stabber. He wasn”™t there by coincidence. Whether he was a fan of the music or a hanger-on to the scene, he”™d surely arrived hoping for a good time, not emergency face surgery at the ER. Being semi-homeless and annoying didn”™t warrant the treatment he got.”
Funny how his article hasn’t even garnered one comment, let alone any negative comment, even though it is filled with opinion and casts Moonrunners in a much more negatively light that mine did. And somehow, I am am the one that is bias.
May 8, 2014 @ 3:14 pm
Also, sorry I edited and forgot to erase a few words as you can obviously see. I was passionately writing. 🙂