Ronnie Dunn Says, “If You’re Gonna Be Heard, You Have to Get on the Radio”
When will they learn that the paradigm has shifted, and understand that even though radio play is certainly good if you can get it, it in no way either ensures your success, or is necessary to be successful?
Though certainly not as acrid as former Nashville CEO Gary Overton’s comments earlier this year about how “If you’re not on country radio, you don’t exist,” which touched off a daisy-chaining piss storm across country music with Florida Georgia Line and Charlie Robison trading barbs among other brushups, Ronnie Dunn, formerly of Brooks & Dunn, shows that old modes of thinking die hard when it comes to mainstream country.
Speaking to Taste of Country about his recent signing with Big Machine’s NASH Icon record label, which was set up to create radio support for artists left behind by mainstream country’s current obsession with youth, the once CMA Entertainer of the Year recipient said, “If you’re gonna be heard, you have to get on the radio. The internet alone is not gonna do it.”
Unlike Gary Overton, Ronnie Dunn clarified that there is another route, but didn’t portray it in a particularly flattering way. “Unless you’re cool being a minstrel, hitchhiking from gig to gig,” Dunn added. “That’s fine too, nothing wrong with that.”
Really?
This perspective seems to be completely impervious to the fact that the independent segment of music is the fastest-growing portion of the industry, and that there are scores of artists in many genres who not only can support themselves making music for a living without radio play, but also succeed sometimes in greater measure than the artists that do. Some of these non-radio artists are even getting downright rich, and are selling more albums, and sometimes drawing more fans to concerts than counterparts in the mainstream radio play business.
Just this week, Saving Country Music highlighted nine artists and bands, all who receive little or no radio play, who each sold more records upon release than Toby Keith who is one of the most-played artists on country radio in the last two decades. And eight of those nine records hit #1 on the Billboard Country Albums chart.
Many of these artists regularly play to sold out theaters, and even some to small arenas.And if you put package shows together with three or so of these acts like the mainstream regularly does, there would be no doubt that a tour could pack a mid-sized arena in many locales.
It’s not the artists that are irrelevant for not having radio play, it’s radio that is becoming irrelevant for not keeping up with the times, and failing to fairly represent a plurality of country music fans and their listening habits. Sure, Luke Bryan and Jason Aldean’s numbers put many of the top independent country artists to shame, but many of the top independent artists put many of the 2nd and 3rd tier industry stars to shame. The times have changed.
But where Gary Overton inadvertently insulted artists who don’t receive radio play, Ronnie Dunn seems to inadvertently call into question the relevancy of independent fans. Do their ears not count just because they don’t listen to the radio?
The reason Gary Overton, and now Ronnie Dunn make these type of statements is because in their world, it takes the acquisition of millions of dollars to justify the effort of making music. Meanwhile all across the United States, there are independent artists that are making strong livings, paying for health insurance, taking out mortgages, raising families, and stowing away nest eggs while making the music they want without compromise. And no money or radio play in the world could ever get them to change from doing it their way, and being themselves.
October 22, 2015 @ 6:41 pm
So important and so true, Trigger, that I just tweeted it!
October 22, 2015 @ 6:45 pm
He is right in that it is that it is very difficult to access the mass country audience without at least some radio play. Unlike concerts, radio listening is free and being introduced to a new song and artist there provides an emotional shock factor that simply does not exist when a listener is actively seeking out a particular song or artist.
To use a nerve analogy: you can’t tickle yourself.
October 22, 2015 @ 8:12 pm
Personally there isn’t 4 songs a year that get by me on the actual radio. I mean by artist or single name where I actually discover them via radio. I’m actually surprised when it happens. Of course we have a top 30 station here. I just never have it happen where I haven’t heard about them by some form of article or social media.
October 23, 2015 @ 5:36 pm
It used to happen to me all the time, still did until a couple of years ago. Radio is still a huge way to get in front of new fans and get your music out there, I still hear the occasional song that really stand out to me, but for the most part its not like it was when I’d hear a new song from George Strait or Alan Jackson on the radio.
October 22, 2015 @ 7:00 pm
Ronnie is one my favorites. However, I think he has been a part of the machine too long to recognize that there is another way.
October 22, 2015 @ 7:08 pm
I don’t listen to radio anymore. No good stations where I live. If Ronnie got played, radio would be better.
October 23, 2015 @ 6:27 am
Neither do I anonymous bill, haven’t for years. The whole Shania/Garth thing ruined country radio for me. I wasn’t exactly thrilled when Dolly went pop, but I could shrug my shoulders and just ignore it because she had a solid body of country classics behind her (and she did come back to country, the most country you can get, with her bluegrass album, so all is forgiven 🙂 )
Thank goodness for modern technology and alternative sources!
October 22, 2015 @ 7:13 pm
I don’t listen to country radio, so their efforts are failing as far as I’m personally concerned. I’m winning. My CDs and records will do just fine. Besides, I have better taste in music than some suit and tie wearing money chasers anyway.
October 22, 2015 @ 7:18 pm
Jason Isbell is playing four sold out shows at the Ryman this week. But, you know, he’s just a traveling minstrel hiking to another gig.
October 22, 2015 @ 7:26 pm
Well, in fairness guys like Isbell and Sturgill Simpson are by in large the minority. Dunn is right in the sense that mainstream Country radio is still the quickest and easiest way to get access to arena gigs and big tours.
I think independent Country music is actually pretty healthy these days, but I bet the bank accounts and touring lifestyles of even a mid to low level mainstream artist like David Nail or Chris Young is considerably different than say Whitey Morgan or Matt Woods
I love Whitey Morgan and Matt Woods, so I’m not trying to downplay how awesome of artists those guys, just stating that outside of the really top level independent artists like Isbell and Simpson are a sea of guys scraping by and wondering how long they can keep it up.
October 23, 2015 @ 6:42 am
Quite frankly, while playing the Ryman is certainly an honor and a great accomplishment, it’s a 2100 seat venue. Pretty much every act I’ve ever seen there has sold out within 2-3 days tops.
October 23, 2015 @ 9:48 am
Jason Isbell sold out four nights in a row, and yes, it is a small capacity venue, but it is also a very expensive one, and there are many major label acts, including ones who’ve received radio play, who could not accomplish this, and never would try because they haven’t established themselves as headliners, and are still considered openers.
October 22, 2015 @ 7:53 pm
I’ve called Radio irrelevant for a long time. Radio is an out-of-touch old man who refuses to retire because he still thinks he can contribute. He’s the same as a guy at a tech-support line who still uses Windows 98 and believes he’s providing a service to all the Windows 98 users (practically nobody.)
October 23, 2015 @ 2:26 am
Yup… And he yells at folks that ain’t like him to get off his lawn, too…
October 23, 2015 @ 6:30 am
LOL. Hey Luke Bryant, get off my lawn!
October 22, 2015 @ 8:27 pm
I miss old country music. I do miss Brooks & Dunn too.
October 22, 2015 @ 9:11 pm
I’m surprised hearing these words coming out of Dunn’s mouth.
He has struck me as one who has actively researched more of the business end of the industry since around the time he released “Bleed Red”, and more knowledgeable than most of the ins and outs.
I expect more from Dunn than this. His remarks can’t help but seem insulting to the intelligence, even if there is truth to radio being a helpful tool in expanding your fanbase.
October 23, 2015 @ 6:23 am
I specifically heard an interview clip on the local Nash Icon affiliate where Ronnie said he no longer cares about radio performance. That was a couple of weeks ago. Ronnie’s statements are all over the place and have been for some time. I don’t even think he really knows where he stands in the industry now, and its reflected both in what he says and in the songs he puts out. Caught between two worlds, perhaps.
October 23, 2015 @ 12:58 am
I don’t think I’ve ever heard Ronnie Dunn on radio in east coast Canada , I never listen to it but check the local recent plays. Maybe Brook&Dunn once or twice but never just Ronnie. I am assuming 90% of mainstream fans who like Brooks&Dunn also have no clue who Ronnie Dunn is.
October 23, 2015 @ 4:19 am
Trig, your last line does it for me. The artist I enjoy don’t cater to outside forces, they make the music they want to play. Who cares if it makes ‘radio’.
October 23, 2015 @ 4:52 am
I’m beginning to think that listening to Luke and Jason is simply the popular thing to do. The fans who enjoy their music just want to be seen as cool and listening to their music somehow makes them cool and popular.
October 23, 2015 @ 4:55 am
Ronnie Dunn just can’t seem to accept the fact that “country ” music has moved on without him.
He kinda sounds like this “back in my day they played music on the radio,and 10lbs of candy only cost a nickel & we walked to school uphill,both ways & we liked it”!!
October 23, 2015 @ 6:36 am
Country music, real country music, does have parameters and a sound within those parameters, even if they can be stretched a bit. They can also be broken, which is what seems to be happening. Put it this way-for instance, how would rap music fans like it if, say, someone put out an album (or whatever) of classical music and called it rap, and when the fans of rap started bitching that “that ain’t no part of nothin'”, the person who put the album out said “rap has to evolve”?
October 23, 2015 @ 6:47 am
Yeah I agree ,I think Ronnie is kinda grasping at straws because he wants to stay relavent & isn’t sure how and for the record radio country isn’t country. I think we both prefer more traditional leaning artists I was just making fun of the fact that he kinda sounds a little over the hill.If the focus is the music the rest will take care of itself regardless of radio play
October 23, 2015 @ 9:53 am
Read the second half of this:
https://savingcountrymusic.com/achy-breaky-2-becomes-a-big-hit-because-its-so-bad
It’s already happening.
October 23, 2015 @ 11:57 am
Thanks Trigger, I just had a chance to read it. All I take from that is that the lowest common denominator is going to rule many genres of music, at least the most commercial ones, for many reasons. This makes me glad, absolutely glad, that the commercial popularity of bluegrass after “O Brother Where Art Thou” turned out to be a blip on the radar, because I’m afraid that if it had lasted as hugely commercial and popular, the same thing would happen to it (I know that there is “nu-grass, etc, but those things never really affect the integrity or the core of traditional bluegrass, thank God). Damitall, I’m going to have to stop admitting even to myself that I like certain genres of music, because every genre I have really loved consistently has died or is in the process of being killed off! (hard rock-not metal-prog rock, classic jazz fusion, now country–I don’t know how classical music makes it, except that it has hundreds of years’ worth of history that can’t be wiped out, and it just doesn’t mesh very well with popular genres, generally speaking, though prog did it fairly nicely sometimes). Anyway, informative article, though the information given therein makes me sick and sad.
October 23, 2015 @ 12:09 pm
Also, I take from that article that it was kind of a one-off, a novelty-there’s not scores of pop, country, whatever, “artists” taking over the rap charts and killing off rap (nevermind what I think of rap as a genre of “music”, for the sake of argument I’ll pretend that I take it seriously as music-lol, I just can’t take something seriously as music when no one even has to know how to play three chords on a guitar, didn’t punk require at least that much?), they’re croaking about one song, for pity’s sake-the entire existence of country music is being destroyed. Now if that starts happening to rap, for a period of years as far as the eye can see, they’ll have a point. I don’t see pop ever dying, it has become some all-purpose umbrella for the most trite music (not that trite music doesn’t have a purpose, but isn’t there room for something more? I mean, I like some old bubblegum pop, but a steady diet of it wouldn’t sustain life).
October 23, 2015 @ 5:34 am
This is really hard to take from Ronnie Dunn. He is my absolute number one favorite country singer of all time! His voice is unique and classic. Hell, I am such a fan of his, I even have the “Cowboy” tattoo!
To me this is him saying what Gary Overton said but only nicer. I do kinda believe what a previous poster said about him having a hard time understanding country music has moved on without him. And if I remember correctly Trig, didn’t Ronnie have a crazy, all over the map marketing plan with his last album that no one understood helping it implode? I bought the album, it had some good stuff on it. But it was mixed with solid country, a good cover of a Ray Charles tune and some wanna be bro country crap. I live here in Nashville, walk down 2nd Ave. S. everyday past the Cumulus offices, eat lunch at 3rd & Lindsley everyday (unless they close for a video shoot like they did yesterday) and it amazes me how I have such distain for country music! They have no idea that the musical world does not revolve around Nashville.
October 23, 2015 @ 9:56 am
Yes, Ronnie Dunn has gone from Nashville rebel muckraking and criticizing the industry to giving up the ghost and coveting radio play again. But we can’t let any of that distract from the music. He’s done some excellent stuff in the past, and I hope he does some great stuff in the future. Regardless of what anyone things about his output, he’s an amazing singer, and his voice has contributed so much to the success of country music. Believe it or not, I really want to like this guy.
October 23, 2015 @ 6:13 am
What does radio have to lose for playing a sturgill or isbell song every 4-5 hours?? is it really that risky
October 23, 2015 @ 6:49 am
I guess they’re worried the kids will change the station. Sad.
October 23, 2015 @ 7:44 am
I wonder why todays current country fans wont listen to “living the dream” or
“life of sin”
Has anybody even tried to play the songs on the radio to see how they do in real life and not on some PHDs charts. I know the big wigs in radio arnt worried about quality music only money.
October 23, 2015 @ 9:41 am
To get a song on radio, it has to be promoted to radio, and the going rate to promote a single is about a million dollars, and that guarantees you nothing, especially if you’re an unknown artist in the mainstream. Still, I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a radio single from Sturgill when his new album comes out since he’s on a major label, and who knows, it could be kind of like a Kacey Musgraves’ “Merry Go ‘Round” scenario or Cam’s “Burning House” and do well.
October 23, 2015 @ 9:51 am
I’m beginning to think this album is a myth. Its just crazy that music he recorded in May might take 7 months to get to market.
October 23, 2015 @ 9:58 am
The question is, what do they have to gain? And if the answer is nothing, then it’s a non starter. They’d play Boy George and Erasure if they thought it would make them a nickel more (and it might be an improvement).
October 23, 2015 @ 6:37 am
I don’t know anything about the music business, but I wonder if making millions having your songs played on the radio is like playing professional sports. Only a small percentage of athletes make it to the pros at all, and fewer still prosper there. For an aspiring musician, is putting your chips on country radio similar? Changing your sound to conform to country radio in the hopes of being the Next Big Thing may give you a shot at a big payoff but isn’t it a high risk low percentage bet?
October 23, 2015 @ 9:50 am
The difference is the major leagues are filled with the most talented people in the profession, while mainstream radio is a league of mediocrity for the most part. It’s upside down. The best and brightest of our generation rarely get a chance on radio.
October 23, 2015 @ 11:19 am
That’s for sure, and it makes it worse in my eyes. If you’re a real artist then country radio is simply something to stay away from.
October 23, 2015 @ 7:00 am
That last paragraph is very true.
October 23, 2015 @ 7:41 am
The reason so many of these stars of yesteryear no longer have sustainable careers is because they write music for the radio, not for themselves.
October 23, 2015 @ 7:50 am
I think Ronnie Dunn was talking more about radio vs streaming here, not necessarily about the independent crowd. And he’s right, the songs the are played on pandora and spotify are the singles that are being played on the radio. The points you made though are good, I just don’t think that was the main intention of his comments.
Side note: but isn’t his single “Ain’t know trucks in Texas” (which is better than most top 40 songs) flopping on the radio?
October 23, 2015 @ 9:38 am
The context of the comment was his signing to NASH Icon. Streaming didn’t really come up. I took it more to be about his effort a couple of years ago to build something through social network, and use that to support his music without the need for radio. Well apparently that failed and he’s reversed course. I’m not blaming him, but I took that as the context.
The “minstrel hitchhiking gig to gig” just because the radio doesn’t play you I think shows a serious misunderstanding about how independent music works. I think this is sort of the equivalent of an NBA or NFL player holding out even though he’s making millions on his current contract because he’s got to “feed his family.” It’s a lack of perspective that is troubling.
October 23, 2015 @ 9:55 am
Is that ‘COWBOY’ tattoo real??? He should drop a few nickels on laser removal for that bad boy. Infact, everything about that portrait up top is making me chuckle. The ridiculous jewelry, that ‘just for men – hide the gray’, better dress all in black and throw a guitar in the background. With that bizarre wanna be badboy/edgy get-up I just can’t take him seriously.
“If you’re gonna be heard, you have to get on the radio” = “Shit, the banks hassling me about the mortgage on the Ranch…. need make a few bucks the only way I remember how”
October 23, 2015 @ 10:46 am
Great write up Trig. It seems Ronnie may just be taking up a controversial topic to try to get his name in the paper again. If radio play is so necessary, he must have been wasting his time with his past couple of albums because I never once heard his songs on the radio. This is sort of off topic, but what are your thoughts on what Chase Rice had to say about his Bro-Country past this week?
October 23, 2015 @ 10:58 am
It’s all marketing, and I don’t want to fuel that cycle by reporting on it. My stance on Chase Rice has been to ignore him and hope he goes away.
October 23, 2015 @ 11:32 am
Ronnie’s expectations/overhead are too high for indie efforts. You can’t go from the machine to indie, only the other way around. Unless, you also sell the multi-million dollar house, cars, buses, high-expectation family members, staff and band.
October 23, 2015 @ 12:19 pm
Also, the IRS doesn’t take no for an answer, or no answer for an answer, as many a music artist has learned to their dismay. (unless you’re a con-uh-artist named Al Sharpton). Ruh roh, I probably shouldn’t have said that, heehee.
October 23, 2015 @ 12:29 pm
I have always wondered how exactly it is decided what gets played on the radio ? It has never made any sense to my simple mind. I am not going to criticize Dunn here, because it is more the rule than exception that an artist “needs” airplay to get noticed. That said, I will point out an exception that Dunn himself knows. The Tractors from Oklahoma had basically one song get a decent amount of radio play in the early-mid 1990s, yet sold over 2 million albums from that effort. The country dance craze was big around then, and their song got played in every little bar and dance hall around.
October 23, 2015 @ 3:14 pm
Depending how you rate it but come Christmas time that version may be bigger now than the single was or heavier rotation. I have no idea how many units “Santa likes to rock it” has sold but it’s still fairly popular in the Christmas rotation for country music. Another band in similar vein to the tractors was the smoking armadillos with really one single as well. Cashed in and did great off it.
October 23, 2015 @ 7:49 pm
And was totally NOT country and didn’t belong on country radio. I realized that then, when I was…nine years old. Ouch. How far things have fallen since.
October 23, 2015 @ 3:50 pm
Announcement:
I just remembered that Loretta Lynn will be on the Opry tonight, along with Allison Krauss. Starts in just over an hour. It’s always special when Loretta’s on. That is all.
October 24, 2015 @ 7:33 am
I bet that was outstanding. Loretta Lynn did a very lengthy interview with Dan Rather last year that one can find on YouTube.
October 23, 2015 @ 5:18 pm
I don’t have a problem with what Ronnie Dunn said because in his world, that is reality. I haven’t actively listened to radio in quite some time. So I couldn’t even tell anyone what is on there anymore. When I hear it passively (stores, etc.) it’s really awful. And it’s not just country radio.
I have some contact with independent artists across different genres and the one thing I keep hearing is that social media is vital. And that goes back to the basics of promotion and advertising: word of mouth is the best advertisement. And that “word of mouth” has a bigger mouthpiece in today’s world.
So, Dunn is correct, from his perspective. But his perspective does not represent the majority of the amazing music being made today.
October 24, 2015 @ 10:29 am
Both of Kix Brooks and Ronnie Dunn’s solo career flopped.
October 24, 2015 @ 3:24 pm
So I am just getting around to this….
WOW. For Ronnie Dunn to allegedly be so savvy in his post-mainstream career, he certainly shows signs of completely not getting the new way of doing things here. I mean, yeah, radio’s still a big thing for a lot of people for perfectly legitimate reasons, but it’s far, FAR from the only game in town anymore, to the point that you do NOT have to be on the radio to make yourself heard, by any means ”” unless Dunn comes from some sort of alternate universe where Sturgill Simpson and Aaron Watson get played on the radio.
And was I the only one who found the “traveling minstrel” thing to be quite insulting?
October 25, 2015 @ 6:03 am
My response to Ronnie Dunn: K.
October 25, 2015 @ 8:31 pm
Ronnie Dunn has never been on my radar, not even when Brooks and Dunn were around but with so many people slamming him, I had to check it out.
Thanks y’all, not a bad album.
October 26, 2015 @ 3:15 pm
I don’t know if they can be classified as independent artists but maybe Ronnie needs to have a deep convo with people like Emmylou Harris, Rodney Crowell, Marty Stuart and Dwight Yoakam. They seem to make a fine living making music and touring with no looking back.
October 11, 2020 @ 9:53 am
I would like to have a sing off contest with Ronnie Dunn .and if not I would love to have him hear me sing I. Everyone in my town says I sound just like him.im not asking for anything I just want him to hear me out so come on kix you can make this happen this isn’t a joke.i sound like many artist.mark chestnut,George straight,Travis Trent .you guys got heard I got all of your CD”s.so just hear me out that’s all I ask.thank you cmon Kix.