VP of Cumulus Country Doesn’t Listen to Country, Swears Off Sturgill Simpson
The country music genre used to be full of people who were passionate about the art form. They found purpose behind bringing the music to people, and that is why they decided to become performers, songwriters, side players, DJs, managers, publicists, roadies, journalists, or whatever it took to push the music forward and to be a part of it. Often sacrifices were made in their lives, personally and financially, because they loved the music so much, they wanted it to be involved no matter the cost.
Today, country music is simply a commodity, and often not even one that has sonic ties to what the music was, or is supposed to be. Artists regularly complain about how stifling the format is. Others simply record and perform songs because it’s what they’re told to do. Often the very people working in the business know the music is subpar. DJs and Program Directors who decide what the masses listen to aren’t even fans of country music, from yesterday or today. But they all collectively push the “country music” of today forward because it’s their job.
This was illustrated perfectly by the opinions shared by the Vice President for Country Formats for Cumulus Media, Charlie Cook, in a short form profile that appears in the current issue of Country Aircheck. The country radio trade periodical regularly profiles industry professionals in quick, quippy features like this, and of course it’s never a fair encapsulation of anyone’s entire body of work, or the breadth of their opinions on music. But it is a good illustration of just how deep the disconnect is today between the music, and those whose job it is to serve it to the public.
The Vice President for Country Formats for the 2nd Largest radio station owner in the United States says that his top three favorite artists are Bob Seger, Steely Dan, and Tears for Fears. His favorite concert was Rod Stewart opening for Three Dog Night. He also mentions Phil Collins, Hall & Oates, Kenny Loggins, ELO, and others as his favorites without ever mentioning a country artist in a positive manner. In fact in the whole piece, the only artist Charlie Cook mentions that has any ties to country music at all is Sturgill Simpson, of whom he says,
“I know I’m supposed to listen to him. He’s a huge act, sells out six shows at the Ryman in a blink. But I am a hit-oriented listener and I need a sing-along hook. I do not believe he is about that.”
If you’re wondering why artists such as Sturgill Simpson and others are never even considered for radio play, here’s your answer.
Okay so Charlie Cook is an 80’s kid and a classic rock junkie. You can’t fault the guy for that. But why is he one of the top heads at Cumulus Media helping to choose the content for country stations? He couldn’t even say he was a big fan of Blake Shelton, Miranda Lambert, or even Florida Georgia Line. How did he achieve this position without any passion for the music itself?
Now imagine this same assessment being made time and time again as you query the ranks of professionals in the positions of power throughout the country music industry, and you have the answer to why the best stuff in country music doesn’t get pushed to the top, why there seems to be no enthusiasm for the music from the professional tasked to serve it, and why it all just comes across as an artifice of a commercial industry as opposed to a true effort to find and support the best country music expressions of our time.
And by-the-way, if you think this is a one-off misstep by Charlie Cook, he once characterized older country music as a “‘C’ student” and today’s country as an “‘A’ student,” and specifically in regards to the programming of the more classic-oriented WSM-FM in Nashville, which regularly beats out the pop country station WSIX in the ratings. He also admitted in the same interview to taking the Dixie Chicks out of rotation when they went on their reunion tour in 2016.
Country fans care deeply about country music, including mainstream pop country fans. It is a part of their lives, it helps get them through each day. It courses through their blood, and gives them a lust for life. It would be great if the people who decided what country fans listen to shared a similar passion and zeal. But often these people in positions of power are passive listeners, making different (and better) musical choices for themselves than the ones they make for others. Charlie Cook can’t even bring himself to listen to the garbage he programs.
This is also the reason why much of today’s country music sounds like nothing more than rehashed classic rock. Here’s looking at you, Jake Owen. It’s also one of the reasons Cumulus is currently in bankruptcy, and iHeartMedia will be there in mere moments.
Here’s your snapshot of the country music industry, ladies and gentlemen.
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A screenshot of the Charlie Cook interview went viral on Twitter after Grady Smith tweeted it. Jason Isbell and others jumped on board.
March 7, 2018 @ 9:25 am
He also confused Sturgill for Jason Isbell in regards to selling out shows at the Ryman.
March 7, 2018 @ 9:47 am
Because to these guys Jason Isbell, Sturgill Simpson, and Chris Stapleton are basically the same guy. They’re all also traditional country, which is the only reason we love them.
March 7, 2018 @ 11:10 am
You’d think Isbell’s rock background would endear him to some of these people. But even their taste in rock music is a generation out of date. “Ah, you damn whippersnappers with your Sony Walkmen, listenin’ to your Foo Fighters and your Linkin Park. Bah!”
March 7, 2018 @ 11:55 am
Yes. Apparently, if you pay any respect whatsoever to traditional country roots, you are retrograde. Gotta keep it fresh with the more relevant stylings of Sum Hunt, et. al
March 7, 2018 @ 5:06 pm
Isbell, Simpson, and Stapleton are not traditional country. I think they are better than almost all on the radio today and they have some country influences but they’re not traditional country. I point this out because that is what is really missing from most of our conversations on this site. I would put Zephinahah Ohora, Joshua Hedley, William Michael Morgan, and Mo Pitney in the traditional category. The golden three really isn’t and neither is Kacey Musgraves.
March 7, 2018 @ 5:33 pm
Of course they’re not traditional country. That’s my whole point. I was just pointed out that’s how they’re usually assigned that by outside media. The last two times I was called sexist and racist by esteemed colleagues of mine in the media, they BOTH cited how I was a traditionalist that preferred the more traditional style of country music like Chris Stapleton. That’s how we knew they had no idea what the fuck they were talking about.
March 7, 2018 @ 5:43 pm
I agree those so called “esteemed colleagues” don’t know shit about the music. The music is just a vehicle for their careers and getting their picture in the trades. I love ya Trig!
March 7, 2018 @ 9:33 am
Sounds like an oblivious douche in regards to Country Music, while taking a very legitimate approach to the Sturgmeister.
March 7, 2018 @ 9:44 am
Man, one of my favorite concert experiences was singing along to “Living the Dream” at a show in early 2015. That room was electric, just kept getting louder with each chorus.
March 7, 2018 @ 9:50 am
I bet this guy don’t know who Willie Nelson is. (The guy who sang with Julio Inglesias?)
March 7, 2018 @ 9:51 am
And he doesn’t “get” Bruce Springsteen? Seriously? I know Bruce isn’t for everyone, but really? A third grader would be better at this guy’s job.
This is pathetic, and truly all anyone needs to know about modern mainstream radio.
March 7, 2018 @ 11:40 am
My thoughts exactly. You don’t have to like Springsteen, but to be in the music industry and say you don’t ‘get’ his music is idiotic beyond belief.
March 7, 2018 @ 12:35 pm
This is the part that irritated me the most since Springsteen is one of my favorites. He’s a great songwriter who would fit fine into country if the instrumentation followed suit, so I guess I can see why this clown doesn’t like him.
March 7, 2018 @ 9:56 am
This guy is obviously from Detroit. I can give him a pass for Bob Seger, that guy is a legend and a huge Detroit celebrity to this day.
But the rest of his musical taste pallet is horseshit, especially in relation to country music.
March 7, 2018 @ 7:27 pm
This man doesn’t represent Detroit. Nobody here is saying how much they love Phil Collins and Kenny Loggins. Johnny Cash is a much different story.
March 7, 2018 @ 10:02 am
So he is obviously from Detroit. I can give him a pass for Bob Seger, that guy is a legend and a huge Detroit celebrity to this day.
But the rest of his musical taste pallet is horseshit, especially in relation to country music.
March 7, 2018 @ 10:04 am
Color me un-surprised, other than it is surprising he has one of those, ‘I saw such-and-such back when he was a nobody’ stories. And it turns out to be somebody cool, and not a young Michael Bolton, or some shit.
Hmm–I could either join the twitterstorm demanding he resign, or chill out and drink . . . I’m going with Option B.
March 7, 2018 @ 10:19 am
Chill out and drink. Those were the days. I need a little time off for bad behavior…
March 7, 2018 @ 10:41 am
If thewre is a Twitter storm asking for his resignation,. I haven’t seen it. The interview was being passed around more like a meme.
March 7, 2018 @ 12:05 pm
I tweeted something at Cumulus. Cook didn’t even care enough to lie … arrogant.
March 7, 2018 @ 12:06 pm
That’s why I didn’t get upset of Huckabee… he wouldn’t have made one difference in our kind of music.
March 7, 2018 @ 10:29 am
Honestly, country music radio and the business of it is like a Joseph Heller book to me.
It is a big old ugly catch-22 in every area
March 7, 2018 @ 10:31 am
Wait…so, “They call me king turd up here on shit mountain; if you want it, you can have the crown” (“You Can Have the Crown”) isn’t a good hook? i’ll be damned…
Anyway, I think Sturgill’s written that song and a few others about Mr. Charlie C(r)ook and his cronies. Cook has terrible taste in music. He shouldn’t be allowed to touch the radio dial in the car, much less pick what songs are streamed over the air.
March 7, 2018 @ 10:39 am
There’s nothing surprising about any of this but it’s infurating all the same.
March 7, 2018 @ 10:45 am
he also lost me when he started knocking the boss.
March 7, 2018 @ 10:45 am
This is not so surprising. Advertisers target consumers which are younger people who want to spend their money and also party as much as possible. Pop music rules even in rural and semi rural areas so you’ve got to keep those listeners happy. If someone knowledgeable and passionate about real country music was in this schlubs position they would topple the applecart by playing good music and drive a lot (not necessarily all) the listeners over to the pop stations or other mainstream country stations. It’s passive listening their after not Stapleton, or Simpson, or Hank or Haggard.
Real country music is for older more experienced souls. Not many young people fit that category.
March 7, 2018 @ 11:30 am
As a young person myself, I can’t say I agree. Sure, my tastes in country lean more towards Jason Isbell and Lori McKenna than George Jones or Kitty Wells, but I think people my age are more than capable of appreciating different kinds of music when we’re exposed to it. The problem is that country, far more than other genres remains a top-down business, focused on radio play and with radio stations apparently under the record industry’s boot.
That said, I don’t doubt for a moment that what you describe is exactly what these executives tell themselves will happen if they dare allow thought or effort onto their playlists for even the briefest moment. They don’t think this based on actually understanding young people, but more on an old person’s caricature of how young people think and behave. How do you do, fellow kids, essentially.
March 7, 2018 @ 12:02 pm
Isbell over George Jones Ha!
I bet you’ll be writing for SCM pretty soon.
March 7, 2018 @ 12:05 pm
I never said I thought he was better, I just focus more on current music in general.
March 7, 2018 @ 5:30 pm
And you’ll be yelling at clouds in about 15 minutes, so there you go.
March 7, 2018 @ 11:38 am
heres why new music across all genres are suffering. Really sad
March 7, 2018 @ 11:47 am
So this clown like Bob Seger but doesn’t get Springsteen? That makes zero sense. My guess is his familiarity with Seger is limited to 10 or 15 greatest hits.
Imagine if someone said they loved Willie Nelson but didn’t get Waylon Jennings.
March 7, 2018 @ 7:35 pm
Isn’t there an angry guy on here who loves Merle Haggard but “doesn’t get” Willie Nelson? (And probably doesn’t care for Waylon but I won’t assume anything)
March 7, 2018 @ 11:48 am
As someone who first found rock radio in the ’70s, I find this “love Seger but don’t get Bruce” thing to be interesting. I can understand having a favorite and preferring one over the other, but loving one and not getting the other? It’s little like loving Waylon and not getting Willie or vice versa. And he seems to think Bruce is a NY/NJ regional star or something. OK, buddy.
March 7, 2018 @ 12:32 pm
Hey Jack, This could be a new Drinking Game.
I love Led Zeppelin but I don’t get Black Sabbath.
I love the Allman Brothers but I don’t get Skynard
I love Yanni but I don’t get Kenny G
March 7, 2018 @ 12:51 pm
I love the Bee Gees but I don’t get Andy Gibb.
I love Debbie Gibson but I don’t get Tiffany.
March 7, 2018 @ 2:02 pm
I love Muddy Waters, but I don’t get Howlin’ Wolf
I love Otis Redding, but I don’t get Sam and Dave
I love Buddy Miller, but I don’t get Jim Lauderdale
I love Cody Jinks, but I don’t get Luke Bell
I love Frankie Avalon, but I don’t get Fabian
March 7, 2018 @ 2:05 pm
“love Seger but don’t get Bruce”
Ah, that may be why we’re getting more Chris Stapleton…
March 7, 2018 @ 6:19 pm
I love Garth but don’t get Chris Gaines.
March 8, 2018 @ 5:37 am
I love Staind but don’t get Aaron Lewis
March 7, 2018 @ 11:56 am
Kenny Loggins is one of his favorites? You mean the guy who wrote and performed two of the great musical and lyrical masterpieces of the 20th century; “Danger Zone” and “Footloose”? Well then, his tastes are obviously impeccable!
March 7, 2018 @ 5:10 pm
Remember Loggins and Messina?
March 7, 2018 @ 8:24 pm
Don’t forget, Kenny Loggins also wrote “Danny’s Song”. His 80’s stuff might’ve been questionable, but damn what a great song.
March 7, 2018 @ 12:03 pm
So this clown claims to love Bob Seger but doesn’t get Springsteen? That makes zero sense. My guess is his real familiarity with Seger is limited to 10 or 15 greatest hits.
Imagine if someone said they loved Willie Nelson but didn’t get Waylon Jennings.
Also, not to be ageist, but if he saw Bob Seger and the Last Heard when he was in high school, then he is in his mid to late 60’s. So an older dude, who does not like county music, who has strange taste in music, is in charge of programming country music. Is this real? Any chance that we are being trolled by whomever is in charge??? It’s so ludicrous……
March 7, 2018 @ 12:47 pm
It’s what you get when all things get run through a business model first. Anything unique and creative gets choked off before it can see the light of day. When it comes to music of most any genre, the word mainstream is synonymous with crap.
March 7, 2018 @ 1:14 pm
And again: this is why we need to burn the industry down and stop playing somebody else’s game.
March 7, 2018 @ 1:39 pm
The only this I agree with this turd, is on Springsteen. I cant stand that bitch. I hope he has an aneurysm while he strains to sing. Its appropriate that he looks like he is making a big dookie as he sings.
March 7, 2018 @ 1:40 pm
This is absolutely sickening. I HATE the country music business right now. (But, I’m hoping to get a Music Business degree from Belmont in the next few years. I want to know the details I don’t already know.) It needs to freakin’ implode. The whole town.
March 7, 2018 @ 2:19 pm
You’re better off just getting a general business degree.
March 7, 2018 @ 5:13 pm
Luckily, Belmont’s Music Business degree is also a certified Business degree.
March 7, 2018 @ 1:49 pm
This is what happens when you put sales in charge of content. Since all they see are dollar signs, that’s all they understand. Yes, it’s a business. I understand that. But, it’s a business that sells images, hopes, dreams, and tells stories. They sell movies that you can see in your mind. Today’s ‘ country ‘ is nothing more than warmed-over pop/crossover/hick-hop/R&B.
March 7, 2018 @ 2:20 pm
The only thing they’re selling these days are bottles of snake oil.
March 7, 2018 @ 2:04 pm
Great post, Trig.
This Cook guy reminds me of a title of a book that has always nagged at me: The Man Without Qualities.
Weak sauce.
March 7, 2018 @ 2:46 pm
Through Trigger I found out about Country Aircheck and I read it every week for snicks and giggles but I know he reads it and just must laugh and cry at all the charts and the “spins”, “going for ads” etc… for songs that mostly suck and aren’t Country. Not to mention the begging and advertising by every label that their artist gets “consideration” for an ACM vote. People just don’t realize how ridiculous the music business in every genre can be. This is just more proof.
March 7, 2018 @ 3:54 pm
This guy is the reason that pop country exists and old school country doesnt ..its the same reason why i choose not to listen to radio anymore …I have my bluetooth and youtube and can listen to what I want when I want ..especially Chris ,Sturgill, Cody , Tyler , Jamey , George , Conway ect….
March 7, 2018 @ 4:40 pm
In Charlie’s A-Student / C-Student analogy, the A-Student is actually Cumulus’ WSM-FM which pulls higher ratings playing a mix of country artists from mostly the 90s through today. The C-Student is Cumulus’ WKDF which plays today’s country. WSIX is iHeart. With that out of the way, it’s negligence to be the VP / Country formats and to have never heard the guy who took home the Grammy for Best Country album (2017). Even if you don’t think it’s your thing and what your listeners will like, check it out Chuck!
March 7, 2018 @ 4:41 pm
Wow. When I first saw this I thought it read just like a Farce the Music parody, much like I thought Walker Hayes was a FTM parody of mainstream country.
And these people would dare to say out loud, on the record, “if you aren’t played on country radio, you don’t exist.” OK then.
March 7, 2018 @ 4:43 pm
Well, this explains everything and it’s worse than I thought. So a guy with terrible taste who doesn’t like country music is running country music radio. Great.
March 7, 2018 @ 4:45 pm
And his love for Smooth Jazz explains everything.
March 8, 2018 @ 9:02 am
As a hardcore Jazz lover, this might be his worst sin of all.
March 7, 2018 @ 4:49 pm
I love Midland who sound to me like real Traditional Country. We need more groups/ singular sfingers like them today. Less Taylor Swift like. Dolly and Patsy ar
March 7, 2018 @ 6:28 pm
This guy has the same taste as my seventh grade math teacher, Mr. Garibaldi…did you have him? He wasn’t a big music guy.
March 7, 2018 @ 7:12 pm
Dear Charlie Cook:
Roses are red
Violets are blue
I have five fingers
And the third one’s for you
March 7, 2018 @ 7:20 pm
The sad irony is, this guy probably hates his job, based on his music tastes, while there are probably programmers who love country music that would love a shot at his job.He’s like a radio version of Captain America, thawed out decades later after a cryogenic nap and is out of touch with the world. Guess that shows what Cumulus thinks of country music and explains why they are failing
March 7, 2018 @ 8:43 pm
Corporate culture at its finest..country is the perfect match for corporate because 90 percent of its listeners are sheep
March 7, 2018 @ 9:39 pm
Selling out your ‘COUNTRY ‘ is treason
This guy needs to be impeached .
March 8, 2018 @ 9:08 am
Best country is not coming out of Nashville for sure. Texas,Alabama,Oklahoma, heck even Canada…sad state of affairs but good country can be found.
March 8, 2018 @ 10:26 am
Minor quibble. WSIX is Clear Channel. WKDF is Cumulus.
March 8, 2018 @ 11:32 am
Minor quibble, Clear Channel is now iHeartMedia.
March 8, 2018 @ 12:21 pm
Just because they change the name doesn’t mean they don’t suck the soul out of radio.
March 8, 2018 @ 10:34 am
So Charlie Cook is where country music goes to die.
March 8, 2018 @ 1:47 pm
So I read the Billboard article at the link, and this stuck out like a sore thumb:
During their Nashville visit, Cook spotted the band’s Natalie Maines and Martie Maguire having dinner at a local restaurant. “I knew these girls pretty well 10 years ago,” he says. “So I went over to the table and said, ‘Hey, from another life, welcome to town.’ There was a young lady with them who I didn’t know, and she goes, ‘So, who are you?’ and I said, ‘I’m Charlie Cook with Nash and Nash Icon.’ Neither Martie nor Natalie said a word. Martie acknowledged my presence. Natalie may as well have thought I was invisible. And I went, ‘OK, nice to see you,’ turned around and went back to my table. I made the gesture to welcome them to town and say hello and they treated me like, ‘You’re radio, get away from us.’ ‘OK, let me get back and schedule a bunch of Dixie Chicks music,'” he says sarcastically.
Is it just me, or does that just reek of “do you know who I am?” It’s entirely possible that they didn’t remember who he was, but even if they did, the whole thing comes off as him just engaging in metaphorical dick-swinging and going off in a snit because the Chicks weren’t having any of it. (And after radio threw them under the bus, I can’t really blame them.) The whole thing came off as extremely unprofessional to me.
March 8, 2018 @ 8:12 pm
I don’t know this guy’s history but it’s very possible he was part and parcel of them getting thrown off radio if I have my dates correct. If he knew them, it’s likely he didn’t speak up on their behalf when they had all the troubles with radio back then, so it’s no wonder they didn’t want to talk to him.
March 8, 2018 @ 8:54 pm
Now that you mention it, I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the case myself.
March 8, 2018 @ 7:15 pm
”is it just me, or does that just reek of “do you know who I am?” It’s entirely possible that they didn’t remember who he was, but even if they did, the whole thing comes off as him just engaging in metaphorical dick-swinging and going off in a snit because the Chicks weren’t having any of it. (And after radio threw them under the bus, I can’t really blame them.) The whole thing came off as extremely unprofessional to me.”
absolutely,pistolero.
this guy is without doubt , the wrong guy for this job……for any job !
March 13, 2018 @ 3:54 am
burn it all down and start over… they don’t understand why they are going out of business, but they can’t give people what they really want in any of their formats.