We’ve Confirmed That Country Radio Hides a Culture of Harassment. Now We Need The Names.
Earlier this week, Rolling Stone published an in-depth report about the prevalent culture in country radio systemically looking the other way when young artists—mostly women—are taken advantage of, harassed, and often expected to be receptive to inappropriate behavior by older men in the radio industry in order to curry favor for the privilege of having their music played on-the-air. Speaking to over 30 separate sources for the article, reporter Marissa R. Moss went into great detail about the level of harassment and inappropriate behavior, and the efforts to conceal it throughout the industry. It comes out right as the country industry is gearing up for the annual Country Radio Seminar, or CRS in February where much of the alleged harassment regularly takes place.
It’s always been assumed that such a seedy culture exists in country radio. Songs have been written about it, fictional scenarios have made it into the scripts of things such as the TV drama Nashville that are believed to mirror the real life issues young performers face. But just like with Harvey Weinstein and the other power brokers of Hollywood, the perpetrators of this inappropriate behavior hold so much sway over the success of artists, the victims either must deal with the harassment, or risk scuttling their careers and dreams in music if they go public, or even complain within their own management team and expose themselves as someone who unwilling to play ball.
Though the Rolling Stone piece is heavy on detail, it is light on names, aside from a few individuals such as Katie Arminger, who has already been outspoken about the issues she faced in a very public legal battle with her former label, as well as Stella Parton, who is the sister of Dolly Parton, and who has interfaced with the country music industry for many years, and Angaleena Presley. But along with the names of many of the alleged victims, the names of many of the alleged perpetrators of this inappropriate behavior are withheld for the same reasons this behavior has prevailed in the industry for so long—you squeal, and you pay with your career.
So the question is, now that we have a more detailed picture of what is happening, what can be done to curtail it?
The first course of action could be to ferret out these names and make them public. As we have seen over the past few months, all it takes is an allegation against an individual to bring down an entire career. When powerful country music publicist Kirt Webster was named by former country music artist Austin Rick as an abuser, his publicity firm was shut down in less than 48 hours, and Webster was rebuked by the industry. This one allegation also opened the floodgates for numerous other associates and employees of Webster to step forward and confirm the pattern of inappropriate behavior.
In the Austin Rick case, the Nashville Police Department even confirmed that there was enough evidence to bring charges against Kirt Webster, but prosecutors couldn’t move forward due to time limits via a statute of limitations. But as we have seen in many of the cases in Hollywood and the media, there doesn’t even need to be any evidence or investigations. The allegations are enough to bring individuals down. And as soon as one person speaks, many more find the confidence to come forward.
But only if you name names. Obviously if Rolling Stone had the names and the permission to publish them, they would have done so. But they didn’t because the hush culture that keeps these serial abusers and harassers shielded from repercussions is still in place in the country industry. So in lieu of focusing on names, perhaps it’s the system protecting them that needs to be taken down, or charged with more accountability by the industry—both on the radio and artist representation side—to make sure this type of behavior doesn’t persist.
It should be an imperative, for example, that young artists are never left alone in a professional setting with radio representatives. A publicist, or even a friend of the artist, or someone else from the radio side should always be present to eliminate the possibility impropriety.
“I don’t remember what led to this, but he just pulled his dick out and started masturbating,” the most gratuitous anonymous account from the Rolling Stone article states. “We definitely didn’t have sex but I remember feeling like I had to participate. Thank god his boss walked in the room. He quickly zipped his pants up and I just ran out and I didn’t hang out with him ever again. I never reported it, I just put it out of my memory and out of my past.”
Participants in Country Radio Seminar, for example, should have to sign agreements—on both the radio and artist representative side—that an artist won’t be left alone, and have it extend to off campus functions as well. Why CRS has not been tackling this issue head on with panels and seminars—let alone addressing the lack of women being represented on country radio as a primary focus—continues to astound.
In fact one theory of why women have virtually disappeared from the country radio dial recently is because much of this inappropriate behavior has been diminishing due to the revelations on the Katie Arminger situation which Saving Country Music first published two years ago, Taylor Swift’s high-profile groping case with a radio personality, the Nashville TV episode tackling this very thing, and the rising fear by many of the men in power at country radio that years of indiscretions will eventually be brought to light.
If this is the case, it’s good that the level of harassment has diminished, but ironically, it also reduced the opportunity for females to be played on country radio as a make good on a butt pinch or a thigh grope, or worse. Kacey Musgraves, who despite finding wide-reception and awards show success with her music, regularly has her country radio singles ignored tweeted out in response to the Rolling Stone article, “MASSIVE expectance (sic) on us to be extra accommodating, accessible, sexy, and kiss ass-y. Maybe it’s why you hardly ever hear me on the radio … there are great PD’s out there tho that still care about the music + aren’t creepy but yes – what I mentioned is VERY real and disconcerting.”
Decentralizing power in the country radio industry would also help reduce the risk that certain individuals who hold such demonstrative sway over an artist’s career can get away with harassing or abusive behavior. As many will tell you in the country industry, due to radio consolidation and nationalized playlists, it’s ultimately only seven or eight individuals who truly control who gets played on country radio at any given time, and the majority of those positions are filled by men. Even major radio personalities like Bobby Bones don’t get to pick the music played on their shows. And even if these particular men of power don’t engage in misconduct themselves, they have a more natural disposition to either look the other way, or protect their colleagues by staying silent.
This might be changing some naturally as well, especially if iHeartMedia’s impending bankruptcy results in a Chapter 7 liquidation, which looks to be more likely by the minute, redistributing the power over country radio to a more local level, and likely raising the level of accountability across the industry. When radio was allowed to become so big and so consolidated, it allowed for these issues to be more easily hidden or overlooked within a bloated corporate bureaucracy.
But ultimately, we need names. Even if the harassment and abuse at country radio stops with the revelations of the Rolling Stone article, the perpetrators still should be held responsible, so that the victims can find closure, and the industry can find accountability and confidence such behavior will never happen again. As was the case when former Steel Magnolia singer Meghan Linsey accused a “very powerful man in the music business” of groping her in October of 2016, since we didn’t have a name of who was responsible, nothing more could be done by the media, the industry, or the public.
One of the reasons the Harvey Weinstein behavior was allowed to continue for so long is because women were more willing to sign gag orders and take private cash settlements against Weinstein as opposed to going to the police. If one, or any of these women would have otherwise chosen to say something publicly, perhaps many more of these incidents could have been avoided, at the hands of Weinstein and others.
This is not to victim shame, or to blame victims for thinking of their best interests first—including coming out publicly in a way that could damage their careers. But it takes names to enact the true change an industry needs to resolve these abusive issues.
We have seen what can happen when names are named in Hollywood. Nashville and country music needs a similar cleaning of house, and not just in radio, but in all positions of power, to ensure women are treated with respect, nobody has to endure a culture of harassment, and the quality of the music, not the willingness of an artist to succumb to harassment, is what determines who gets played on country radio.
Bill Weiler
January 18, 2018 @ 11:05 am
Just like Hollywood and Weinstein, you know the Nashville community all know who the perpetrators are. It’s only a matter of time before the floodgates open up. Hopefully soon.
Dan
January 18, 2018 @ 11:09 am
that’s why radio needs to cease to exist as a format. it’s completely terrible. Who the fuck these pigs think they are? How do they dare to harass young ladies just because they know younger artists really need their songs to be played? Thank God streaming is turning tables and soon fucking country radio will be long forgotten.
Bill Weiler
January 18, 2018 @ 11:20 am
Amen to that.
Trigger
January 18, 2018 @ 11:43 am
Yeah, but an emerging problem at the moment is playlist placement on Spotify, and unlike radio that at least has some protocols in place for payola via the FCC (which the Rolling Stone article proves can be circumvented easily, and often with sex-based rewards), Spotify and others are private companies without any regulations.
One difference however is ANYONE can make a playlist, unlike radio where it takes a major investment to launch a radio station. But those playlists have to be given a proper chance in the marketplace, and be supported by the public. Otherwise we just hand all the power from radio over to streaming companies instead of evening the playing field via the promise of technology and the streaming medium.
Cilla
January 18, 2018 @ 12:06 pm
It also brings ” pay to play” to a different light. Radio personalities have something at stake in all this…..RADIO PERSONALITIES. Anyone think of at least ONE most recently???
C’mon, y’all know. IT works from within the very airwaves if you are Desperate to get your music heard. Yep, this will be interesting.
Dan
January 19, 2018 @ 2:35 am
but that means, Trig, that a very huge Traditional Country Spotify playlist could bring back Alan Jackson, George Strait and new guys Jon Pardi and William Michael Morgan on top of the charts. As long as there’s still some user with huge playlists, things can only be better for country music.
Carter Burger
January 18, 2018 @ 12:25 pm
Thanks for painting all us broadcasters in the broadest brush you can find you moron. Not all of us engage in this. Most of us just try to put good music on the air and serve our listeners and advertisers. but none of that matters to you, right since you seem to know everything about how everything works.
Trevor Curtis
January 18, 2018 @ 3:01 pm
Defensive,much? Come on,man. i worked in radio back in the 90’s. And he said the industry. That means record executives, PR people, not just the voices behind the microphone. And I’m sorry, but posting crap responses like this do not help your cause one bit.
Carter Burger
January 19, 2018 @ 5:59 am
“that’s why radio needs to cease to exist as a format” Tell me where he said record executives, and PR people are part of “the industry”? Posting ignorant responses like this DOES not help your cause one bit.
Trevor Curtis
January 19, 2018 @ 7:35 am
Oops, when they said industry, I thought they meant the execs and managers tasked with getting those records on the air, and promoting the records to radio, like , I don’t know, public relations people? OMG, I feel so ashamed by your use of all caps, and condescending combative attitude. Where are you working at? Because I sure want to listen to a radio station where they have guys who have nothing better to do than come on here and be condescending,smug and dismissive of women’s complaints about the industry.
Lord Honky Of Crackersley
January 18, 2018 @ 3:59 pm
Carter,
Are you actually allowed to put good music on the air? Do you own your own radio station or something?
Bill Weiler
January 18, 2018 @ 4:10 pm
Good music has been banned from commercial radio for at least two decades now.
Carter Burger
January 19, 2018 @ 6:01 am
Humm….guess that means I should change the name of my station to Outlaw Country? lol
Leroy
January 19, 2018 @ 7:12 am
That’s the whole point of this thread. Radio can’t find anyone worth listening to that will actually do them. That’s why you get shitty songs and shitty music to listen to. From now on you can assume that someone who got played on the radio, played to get played. At least we know why the radio is so bad. Here’s to the silent majority.
Carter Burger
January 19, 2018 @ 6:01 am
As a matter of fact, yes I do. I own a 3000 watt FM in Indiana. We don’t knee-jerk put on what the record companies send us. For example, you won’t hear Florida-Georgia Line on my station. There’s good music out of the mainstream we play….along with the classics like Waylon and Willie of course.
Bill Weiler
January 19, 2018 @ 6:25 am
Don’t be leaving the country anytime soon. The authorities want to talk with you.
Carter Burger
January 21, 2018 @ 11:59 am
Bill, LOL. If anything happens to me, the radio station is set to play nothing but Chris Stapleton, Waylon Jennings, Alan Jackson, Blackberry Smoke and Shooter Jennings on a continuous loop!
Dan
January 19, 2018 @ 2:39 am
Carter Obviously didn’t mind to offend you personally, but radio sistem is really what’s bringing country music down. Radio is the reason why Jason Aldean scores back to back number ones and Brad Paisley’s Last Time for Everything gets ignored. Radio brought Chase Rice up to number 5 with fucking Ready Set Roll. Radio never played “The one you’re waitin’ on” by Alan Jackson, even if that song scored good streaming numbers. Is Chase Rice and FGL what you call good music?
Carter Burger
January 19, 2018 @ 6:11 am
You need to be a bit more specific. It wasn’t the radio system that’s worked for years bringing country music down, it our big conglomerate brothers that are so burdened by debt they can’t afford to hire people to to ferret out good music and they have one corporate PD per format that dictates to his stations what gets played. At least that my theory. Most of the time, I don’t have time to worry about it. I play what our listeners positivly react to…..including the Alan Jackson cut you mention. I’ve still got it in heavy rotation two years after it was released. I heard that Chase Rice single you mentioned, too. Never even made it into my Nexgen. The difference between the big conglomerates and mom-and-pops like us is we can turn on a dime. I hear something good on the internet I put it on the air that day like we did with Chris Stapleton.
Dan
January 19, 2018 @ 4:55 pm
Well I am very proud that you do this and I thank you for that. But I’m talking in terms of massive influence, and country radio has brought a lot of garbage to number 1 these last years… that’s what I really blame. But obviously people like you should get way more credit than they do, next time I’ll make clear that I’m referring to the cumulus media and iheart side of country radio.
Max Dudcha
January 25, 2018 @ 9:18 pm
Do you have a website? I’d like to give your station a listen!
Fat Freddy's Cat
January 19, 2018 @ 6:36 am
Fair enough, but there’s a reason that a lot of us are deeply disappointed by country radio, and I think you touched on it in one of your comments below: we’re sunk deep in the sewer of corporate radio and simply don’t have access–so far as we know–to any counter examples like yours.
Is there a source that we can turn to in order to find good stations to listen to and that good country artists can contact to get their music played? If folks like that don’t already have a network country fans can plug in to, maybe you should look at creating one.
FeedThemHogs
January 18, 2018 @ 3:49 pm
I may go by FeedThemHogs on here, but that’s a hat-tip to Tom T. Hall and the fact that my family farm raises hogs.
But I am not a pig. I am, however, a radio announcer. And much like Carter above, I don’t think it is fair to be painted so ugly with a brush so broad.
Now would you bring me some coffee, and a hot ham sandwich please?
Jtrpdx
January 18, 2018 @ 11:31 pm
What dial are you on, Hog? Would love to add you to my listening list.
FeedThemHogs
January 19, 2018 @ 6:26 am
Afternoons 2-6 pm on kwkz.com.
10-GEN-NC
January 23, 2018 @ 11:41 am
Tune in later currently roaming around like my old huntin dogs haha right on to any and everyone still trying to fight the good fight etc has always been a dream to buy a tiny radio station
Cilla
January 18, 2018 @ 11:22 am
Well, this will open up to be a confirmation about more than just harassment. When it’s looked at deeper as with Hollywood, a lot of Stuff comes to light. I see more than careers being ruined.
Let’s start the Talley at how many “HAPPY MARRIAGES” come to an end when allegations come forth. As I also have said there’s more to be seen then what gets in the media. Country music
starts getting looked into….. Will be interesting to see WHO comes forth first and how the
Country Music community deals with it. Take a close look at #METOO, it’s happening and country music will be in the spotlight. Gonna be interesting.
CountryCharm
January 18, 2018 @ 11:40 am
Country has a long history of covering up the bad and playing up the good old country family values yet it’s no different than any other industry. Drug, alcohol, spousal abuse. Multiple divorces, infidelity. Country singers living in 10 000sqft mansions and horse farms but they’re just simple people like their fans. Kirt’s story got swept under the rug pretty much, nothing came from it. Unless we get big names speaking up about abuse they have suffered, nothing will come from this either. Music Row is good at tidying up after itself and maintaining that family values image.
Trigger
January 18, 2018 @ 6:45 pm
I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that nothing came of the Kirt Webster situation. It was a massive news story that stretched well beyond country music and his life is ruined, regardless of how involved he may try to still be behind-the-scenes. And he was a big fish in country music as well, representing dozens of artists. Not a small player that was made an example of.
Incognito
January 18, 2018 @ 11:53 am
Webster ain’t gone, though, he’s just hiding in plain sight. AND he’s hung onto nearly half his clients…oh, I’m sorry, Jeremy Westby – Webster’s life partner, who was announced as taking over Webster PR, but then they took that plan back and he opened up his own place – miraculously was able to keep half of Webster’s clients, none of whom said boo about Webster in the aftermath.
And if Webster – a guy who is alleged to have assaulted or harassed up to fifty different employees a year in an office that can only hold 8-12 max – is pretty sure that he can get back to business openly if he just keeps quiet for twelve or so months? And he had one female client appear on the local news to stand up for him with a statement of “there’s no such THING as sexual harassment”? AND Stella Parton has become the biggest crusader against this treatment of women, and even at her age she won’t say who attempted to rape her decades ago?
The only way names will come out is if multiple women all take out charges against the same man, and then MAYBE the ball gets rolling a little bit. Otherwise, I’ll stick to what I told my wife the other night when she asked me if the record label would have stuck behind Kesha’s producer like they did a year or two back if it were to happen today: “It’s the music business, darlin’, it’s a whole other animal than movies.”
Erik North
January 18, 2018 @ 11:59 am
I don’t think it’s any terrible shock to hear stories like these, whether it’s in Hollywood, in Nashville, or, dare anyone say it, Washington DC itself. Nor should it be surprising that we don’t hear about stories like these until years, at times even decades, after they’ve happened, because money, power, and male ego always talk louder than the truth.
I read in Linda Ronstadt’s 2013 memoir SIMPLE DREAMS of an incident of sexual harassment that involved her and some guy who worked on the Johnny Cash Show when she made the first of her four appearances on it, in the late spring of 1969. This guy, who was probably more loaded than the law allowed, proceeded to remove every vestige of dress wear on him and taunt her about the ethos of the peace-and-love hippie lifestyle that Linda, by any account, embodied, even though the music she was doing at the time was heavily country-influenced. He further warned her that, if she told anyone about this “icky” (to use her term) encounter, nobody in Nashville would believe her because of the way she looked (jeans, long hair, braless in the panty-girdle, big-hair South of 1969). Linda, of course, survived all of that and became a huge role model for a lot of women in country music (if from well outside of the genre), including many women who are finding it ominously hard to get any airplay on the radio these days.
In our present context, I think it is fair to say that one of the reasons, though probably not the ONLY reason, that independent-minded female singers aren’t able to get airplay on country radio is because they aren’t willing to play to the egos of many male record label executives, radio station programmers, and others in various positions of power; and when they don’t, they get either sexually harassed or even assaulted. It’s a travesty that such things are allowed to happen anyway, because there are so many great female artists out there who have a lot of things to say and sing about, and they’re not being heard because of it.
Fuzzy TwoShirts
January 18, 2018 @ 12:09 pm
We’ve also confirmed that Country Radio doesn’t play Country Music.
So the big question is why are we still doing this?
If there were a taco bell that I frequented because I like the food, and suddenly it were a burger king, I wouldn’t keep going there and demanding that they still serve tacos.
I would never go into Burger King because I don’t like burgers.
there is nothing redeemable about Country Radio. by trying to fight the system we’re engaged with it, and so long as we are engaged we can’t make any improvements.
You don’t get better customer service by going back again and again and putting up with the bad service no matter how much you complain because obviously the complaints are empty and you will still be back.
instead of trying to change radio, we should all focus our energy into the platforms of the future
CountryCharm
January 18, 2018 @ 12:17 pm
So they should just shut down everything because you don’t like what type of country they play on the radio?
Screw all the artists and people who work in the industry because they don’t play what you like. That’s really going to help women. Can’t get harassed if you dont have a job.
Fuzzy TwoShirts
January 18, 2018 @ 1:01 pm
I’m just saying that as a fan of Country Music, radio’s business is none of my business.
and that they aren’t going to change their ways until they are bankrupt. and since I want Country Music, I obviously can’t bother with radio of any kind since it’s a waste of my time.
The whole industry is a mess, and the only way it ever gets better is to scrap it and start over.
meanwhile we’re no closer to quality Country Music than we ever were.
even though talented artists from everywhere are making it.
They just don’t get attention.
I learn about new music every day on SCM but none of it ever gets on the radio
CountryCharm
January 18, 2018 @ 2:49 pm
It’s got nothing to do with the type of music, it’s about the people in the industry. You can’t just put an end to an entire industry and start from scratch. There is zero common sense in that. Sexism and sexual assault has been a part of country radio since the good old days. It has nothing to with classic or pop country only the men who are in charge and abuse their power.
DJ
January 18, 2018 @ 2:38 pm
That isn’t what I saw in his post. Can you explain how you arrived at your conclusion?
DJ
January 18, 2018 @ 2:39 pm
The previous by me is directed at CountryCharm.
CountryCharm
January 18, 2018 @ 2:53 pm
His opening statement about country radio not playing country music, women are being sexually assaulted and fear speaking out and the major concern is they don’t play the music he wants to hear on the radio?
The I don’t like it so it shouldn’t exist mentally is very millennial.
DJ
January 18, 2018 @ 8:14 pm
“The I don’t like it so it shouldn’t exist mentally is very millennial”. LOL. I’m 70 years old and I agree with what he said. He’s an Individual, as am I. I don’t doubt a lot of Individuals feel the same way based on the comments here and the numerous articles about how bad radio is. That’s called the market making decisions vs a bunch of empty suits dictating what will be be successful in an arena whose income is derived from Individual’s paying attention. Women being ‘systematically’ (< don't forget that) sexually assaulted is a by-product of the empty suits believing themselves invincible because they've been selling shit for so long and getting away with it- because a bunch of empty suits didn't like Individuals deciding what music would be played and determined their centralizing their power was 'better'.
I remember, years ago, when the DJ's, the stations they worked for and the local programmers lost control to the empty suits. Ostensibly to make it less tempting to 'pay off' the locals. So, the 'pay offs' moved upstairs to the empty suits and became a do or die (so to speak)….and voila- sexual "harassment" vs cocaine or money to the Individuals at different "individual" stations. Now it's demanded or your music gets NO air time anywhere- but, the alternative sources (markets) are making Stars- and he doesn't like burgers when he wanted tacos, and the women (and men) don't need radio like they did in the past.
CountryCharm
January 18, 2018 @ 9:13 pm
So you’re 70 and entitled.
Again this has nothing to do with your longing for radio days gone by. Women were sexually harassed in the days of Patsy Cline and they’re being sexually harassed now. The common denominator, men in power abusing their power.
DJ
January 19, 2018 @ 10:02 am
I’m 70, yes, and I suppose there is some amount of entitlement that comes with age. The bigger picture though is “all men are created equal and have certain unalienable rights Endowed by their Creator”- that is to say, everyone/anyone (who can speak) can express their opinion. There is no caveat, age or gender or religious or political, or color in that belief. It’s a self-evident Truth.
I don’t “long for radio days gone by”. I said I “remember” a time (the exact year escapes me) when the empty suits decided (probably paid for legislation to those who don’t remember Individual rights are what this Country was founded on) they didn’t like Individuals deciding what was played on the radio. Ostensibly to stop the pay offs. But, the pay offs moved upstairs, to a “centralized” format made up of empty suits who soon learned being in charge “entitled” them to certain ‘favors’ and ‘believed’ they had the “right”, because they too have no clue about “Individual rights”.
And, I seriously doubt Patsy Cline paid off every DJ or PD to have her music played. Conversely, now there is one “person” in a “music business arena” (an empty suit) that has to be paid (apparently) to be played at all. But, with alternative sources for listening those empty suits are now being outed as the predators they are. The OP you first attacked didn’t want a burger in place of a taco- pretty good analogy actually and with an alternative taco vendor he doesn’t have to go to a burger stand to get an alleged taco, regardless of the servers gender- see Austin Rick’s story.
Whiskey_Pete
January 19, 2018 @ 10:11 am
Shit, I forgot to check my white privilege.
Rita Ballou
January 18, 2018 @ 12:11 pm
I believe ALL of these creeper stories… but, I’ve been to CRS about 5 times and I can’t even get a man to buy me a drink.
DJ
January 18, 2018 @ 2:40 pm
LOL….. sounds like discrimination to me.
Rita Ballou
January 18, 2018 @ 2:55 pm
I’d never admit to having Sexual Harassment FOMO … I’ll just have to go with the theory that I am just too mean (or repulsive) for a Radio Creeper to bother trying to get me to go up to their room and have look at their junk.
I’m ok with that.
DJ
January 18, 2018 @ 8:18 pm
LOL…. discrimination can work more than one way…..;)
HayeCarll23
January 18, 2018 @ 3:37 pm
Well…
Lord Honky Of Crackersley
January 18, 2018 @ 12:52 pm
Women are men, and men are women; therefore neither is subject to harassment from the other, because they are one in the same in every conceivable way.
Leroy
January 19, 2018 @ 6:44 am
In the Tenpenny thread there was a comment/reply that said that White privilege was a myth. Lord Honker of Doggie Doucheville here keeps proving that wrong over and over again. Some people, like Honker here, need their noses pushed into their own shit before they will be able to function on their own. You can thank me later, you black hole for intelligence, throbing butthole for a brain.
Lord Honky Of Crackersley
January 19, 2018 @ 10:58 am
If you disagree, why don’t you explain why, instead of crying?
Leroy
January 19, 2018 @ 8:01 pm
Leroy don’t take kindly to being called woman, and he don’t explain nothin. Soon it will be against the law to even speak to you. We’re supposed to “just ignore your type” all law enforcement tells us so. Tell me something before it’s too late to find out, when you imagined me crying, was I sobbing? Or did you envision one fat tear streaming down down my big cheek? You like imagining Leroy crying? Did it make you feel something inside?
Lord Honky Of Crackersley
January 19, 2018 @ 8:06 pm
I didn’t imagine you crying. I simply advised you to stop crying and explain why you disagree.
Trigger
January 19, 2018 @ 9:05 pm
Last comment on this thread. This is going nowhere.
Thank you.
Stephanie
January 18, 2018 @ 3:43 pm
“If one, or any of these women would have otherwise chosen to say something publicly, perhaps many more of these incidents could have been avoided, at the hands of Weinstein and others.” I find this extremely hard to believe. It depends a BIT on who the woman was, I suppose, but one or two of these women coming out would absolutely not have changed anything. Even once they came out in DROVES, did you happen to read any comments sections or listen to general public opinion? Its not like the overwhelming sentiment was positive and trustful toward the women.
I’m just saying, its not so much a matter of choosing their own best interests over being the whistleblower. Being the whistleblower likely wouldn’t have made a difference anyway.
Trigger
January 18, 2018 @ 6:53 pm
When Austin Rick came out against Kirt Webster, it was like a flood gate opened. The same happened with Harvey Weinstein, and both men’s careers were ended. I can’t speak for the sentiment in Hollywood tabloid comments sections, but screw those people. I can’t imagine that if Megan Linsey named her abuser, especially in this current environment, that person would be shitcanned before breakfast. And since most of these abusers engage in the behavior serially, we’re almost assured more victims would come forward shortly to corroborate the behavior.
The only person who appears to be immune to all of this is Nelly after he was accused of raping a woman on a Florida Georgia Line tour, and she was the one ultimately smeared in the press. Otherwise, across the board, it’s been the alleged perps, not the victims who’ve been rebuked publicly.
As I said in the article, I don’t blame the women for not wanting to speak on record, I blame the system that doesn’t allow them to. That is the reason we must rehabilitate the system to both check and balance interactions where young artists could be taken advantage of, and decentralize power so that a single seedy program director can’t hold the power of an artist’s career in their hands, and use that to their advantage.
DJ
January 18, 2018 @ 8:23 pm
I just replied in another post about the “centralized power”….. that was gov’t intervention in the market ‘dictating’ it happen to ‘ostensibly’ avoid the very thing ‘locally’ that’s happening now nationally. Go figure.
Stephanie
January 19, 2018 @ 7:15 am
I don’t have any idea about Hollywood tabloid comment sections either. But I still strongly disagree that the victims haven’t been rebuked publicly. Maybe if you’re really selective regarding who you talk to about it.
I agree that, with how the environment has changed, victims are taken more seriously on the whole these days though.
And I totally get that you’re not blaming the women. I just disagree with your assessment about how things would have worked out a while back, before this whole movement, if some actress would have spoke out against Harvey Weinstein, for example. Because in fact, some did. And the outcome was not what you suggested. Until recently. And even still, I see and hear a LOT LOT of vitriol toward the accusers.
Stephanie
January 19, 2018 @ 7:23 am
Although, if you mean they haven’t been publicly punished in some way by people in power, that’s true.
Leroy
January 19, 2018 @ 7:26 am
Vitriol is what flows through human veins. Just watch how angry, incensed and outraged you’ll get just by reading that. What’s that all about? It’s flowing. But it’s the unfortunate truth. Some people have intelligence to override it, that’s the amazing part of being alive. Most people don’t, they think they do but it’s proven wrong just by the saliva that started dropping around the lowered fangs when you read the first line. etc. I wouldn’t put too much into the comments. The law is the law. Proving sexual harrassment is the very hard part, especially when the majority of the public will be against you. Whistleblowers wouldn’t think so, because they have other people’s back, and can’t imagine someone not.
Incognito
January 19, 2018 @ 11:15 am
Please note: the floodgates that opened up post-Austin Rick’s allegations toward Webster were all from anonymous sources. Seriously, YOU try to get someone to state something publicly in this town, but try to reassure them with a straight face that they’ll have a career waiting for them after their statement makes print.
Trigger
January 19, 2018 @ 11:55 am
Yes, they were from anonymous sources. That is why I am saying that we need to institutionally change the culture in country music to where performers who are taken advantage of in some way—not just sexually—have the ability to speak out. I think some are taking this article as a rebuke of the harassed who are unwilling to speak publicly, when it was meant to rebuke the system that does allow them to. That said, if a big artist was willing to speak out, it could result in drastic change much quicker than trying to implement HR protocols across dozens and dozens of companies, labels, venues, and promotional companies.
Amethyst
January 18, 2018 @ 3:53 pm
It’s not just radio. I went to a regional country music industry conference and ended up meeting a guy (fellow artist) who harassed me for months on end. I was scared to even tell him off because I was worried he would tell everyone I was stuck up and bad to work with. I did finally block him on social media but I’m still afraid to name him because…I’d like to work in this scene again, you know? Another guy (older male artist) lured me to his hotel room under the guise of “songwriting” (yeah, I was dumb) and made repeated sexual advances. He never did anything physical (thank god) but I got the hell out of there before he could. It’s too bad because I’m an emerging artist/songwriter and 99% of the people I met at said conference were wonderful.
Jtrpdx
January 18, 2018 @ 11:41 pm
So what you are saying is that Parker McCollum has been harrasing you, and Chris Stapleton lured you into a “writing” session?
Incognito
January 19, 2018 @ 11:19 am
Amethyst, I’d love to talk to you about your experiences for a piece I’m writing, if you are interested. It can be anonymous.
Amethyst
January 19, 2018 @ 11:45 am
I’d definitely be down to talk about it. How do I contact you?
Incognito
January 19, 2018 @ 9:01 pm
God question, as neither of us want to put our real info out there, right?
Do you have a Twitter account?
Trigger
January 19, 2018 @ 9:05 pm
If you want, send me emails through the contact forum, and I will put you in touch.
https://savingcountrymusic.com/contact/
Seak05
January 18, 2018 @ 5:17 pm
It’s not just worrying about their careers, women who come out tend to be harrased,, called liars, and worse (death threats anyone). Frankly you have to be willing to ruin your life.
Incognito
January 19, 2018 @ 11:21 am
I know for a fact that, ALLEGEDLY!!!, there have been death threats sent to former Webster employees post-Austin Rick’s story coming out.
Adam
January 18, 2018 @ 5:18 pm
Trigger, I agree with your sentiment, and while I think the Kirt Webster stories are very likely true (and maybe worse than reported), I generally shy away faway from encouraging trial in the court of public opinion. Reporting to authorities using names and details is exactly the right thing to do so the legal process can play out. I am scared to death of living in a society where simply being accused of wrong doing can ruin all that I’ve worked to create. I can’t support the current trend of irresponsible public defamation in place of the law.
Trigger
January 18, 2018 @ 6:58 pm
Oh I totally agree. Get the cops involved if the situation is that serious. But making unwanted flirty advances isn’t against the law. Saying lewd things to women is not against the law. A lot of this stuff hovers just over what the law deems inappropriate, which is how they get away with it. That is why it’s dependent on an industry or a workplace to set the boundaries, and have protocols in place where the harassed feel comfortable to report the behavior, and not have to worry about professional or personal repercussions.
Unfortunately, country music doesn’t have a centralized HR department, and much of the work done is out in the field, and late at night. That is why it’s important for us to come together as a community to help solve these problems. The CMA could really take some leadership here. But just like with the lack of women on the radio, and the obvious flaunting of non country music in the country industry, they’re silent.
Levi Genes
January 18, 2018 @ 5:48 pm
Lee Ann Womack can sexually harass me all day. Seriously, though, here’s the prob. In my estimation, 8 out of every 10 women I’ve known who have the guts/personality to try and be a superstar on stage also don’t mind shaking that ass or sticking that ass out to get what they want. It creates an environment that the other 2 don’t like or deserve to endure.
Incognito
January 19, 2018 @ 11:23 am
Just because they shake and stick out their ass doesn’t mean anyone has the right to touch it.
Aggc
January 19, 2018 @ 9:58 pm
Then why are they sticking it out?
Lord Honky Of Crackersley
January 20, 2018 @ 9:30 am
People who show their bodies want you to want to touch them. But they don’t necessarily want you to touch them.
albert
January 18, 2018 @ 6:12 pm
politics, holllywood , the music industry, the RCMP here in Canada …..any place where there is a long time hierarchy of power in place has traditionally bought into this practice of extorting sexual favours . and yes ….songs like ” bitches” do nothing to alleviate this pattern .
two thoughts on this which may not be popular or politically correct :
first off…..
males are programmed to pursue females sexually . no secret . its the reason there’s a human race . laws and guidelines for socially acceptable behavior can minimize disrespectful means to achieve this goal…..but cannot arrest the genetic programming that dictates the mandate , unfortunately.
add to this a hypocritical culture which uses sex to sell EVERYTHING ..especially music and movies , of course ( Bitches , Honky Tonk Badonkadonk ) .
secondly …. in NO WAY am I condoning the behavior of those in power to use that power for sexually exploitative purposes..in NO WAY . BUT !! …people trying to ‘get ahead’ in their respective fields very often DO HAVE THE CHOICE as to whether they will trade sexual favours to achieve career goals . Certainly , some choices may result in limitations of their goals IN THAT INSTANCE and , of course , should not …but the choice is always there , except , of course ,when someone is out-muscled and possibly even raped . there have been enough instances , according to interviews , biographies etc , where someone COULD have made the decision that the trade-off was not worth the price and walked out . Again …I am NOT condoning the behavior of those in power . I am only reminding us that in many cases the drive for success at all costs by those seeking it may be their worst enemy. which makes it even MORE important to educate rather than encourage the disrespect of women and others with songs like ” Bitches ” which overtly condones the reference by belittling a woman’s worth .
DJ
January 18, 2018 @ 8:27 pm
Very well stated.
Incognito
January 19, 2018 @ 11:25 am
Your second point: yes, people have used sex to move further in their careers, but it should be their choice to pursue that line. It’s a whole other animal when it’s the person in power saying, “Come on up to my room, and I guarantee your next single is a hit.”
DJ
January 20, 2018 @ 8:13 am
It’s a slippery slope no matter who said/did what, or the excuse given for why. Character is defined by what one does when no one is watching. That isn’t gender specific. Kiss and tell happens and it isn’t long until it’s the norm and expected, which isn’t gender specific. Unfortunately those in power have expectations that can help others meet their own expectations by resorting to selling their soul- or something else.
It’s best, I believe, to not mix business and pleasure. IIRC, management classes pointed out there should be very little fraternization away from the job- the Military has specific rules about officers and enlisted personnel interactions away from the job. That’s not to say militaristic styled environments should be the norm, but, most businesses I’ve had any inside knowledge to frowned on inter-personal contact because it can create conflict that makes one’s job harder to accomplish.
Aggc
January 18, 2018 @ 7:14 pm
The whole #MeToo movement has defeated it’s own purpose. Now you have anonymous sources shattering the lives and careers of others just because they felt ‘uncomfortable’ on a date. Leave it to the internet and it’s associated media to take a worthwhile cause and render it ineffective due to overexposure and hyperbole.
DJ
January 18, 2018 @ 8:37 pm
Yeah, and it’s been coming for years. I’ve been reluctant for a very long time to be my natural ‘charming’ (LOL) self around strangers because you never know who you may offend and I’m just old enough to not give a shit what some snow flake thinks which would serve to make the allegation even worse…. and make no mistake, there are many “snow flakes” who just look for an opportunity to be a victim.
That said, I don’t understand the people in “power” who believe their status makes them somehow immune to ‘common’ decency. Although, as I said in a different thread- what I hear from the mouths of some babes- is just inviting trouble. Of course they don’t ‘see it’ that way. It seems ‘some’ women/girls/females want their cake and eat it too. It’s a difficult and touchy subject social media (which I refuse to be a part of) doesn’t help the matter in the least little bit.
Aggc
January 18, 2018 @ 9:03 pm
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – the internet is both the best and worst thing ever to happen to mankind. It will ultimately lead to our downfall.
DJ
January 20, 2018 @ 8:30 am
I had that same discussion with my older brother years ago about computers in general and I have some pretty good anecdotal evidence on my side- however, in retrospect our downfall was determined a long time before computers or the internet were even a twinkle in someone’s eye- so to speak. Both have increased the rate of descent, but, Historically, it’s inevitable. (empire life spans are recorded in History as being something in the 200 +/- a bit year span)
Lord Honky Of Crackersley
January 20, 2018 @ 9:32 am
Hard times make strong men.
Strong men make good times.
Good times make weak men.
Weak men make hard times.
Incognito
January 19, 2018 @ 11:27 am
By uncomfortable on a date, you mean telling your date that you want to take it slow, only for him to continue to pull his penis out repeatedly?
Aggc
January 19, 2018 @ 11:43 am
No, that’s not what I mean. It was in reference to the Aziz Ansari debacle.
Incognito
January 19, 2018 @ 9:03 pm
Yeah, I was referencing that “debacle” as well.
Aggc
January 19, 2018 @ 9:15 pm
Ok.
Aggc
January 19, 2018 @ 10:11 pm
Except she was naked at the time so…
I mean, come on. We’re supposedly all adults here and therefore should be accountable for our own actions. If you willingly strip yourself naked, shouldn’t you expect some sexual advances?
Aggc
January 19, 2018 @ 10:17 pm
It really is a tragedy how much power the internet has given to the ignorant and misinformed.
Desperado Destry
January 18, 2018 @ 10:03 pm
Who’s gonna come forward? Dolly Parton or Loretta Lynn? Who’s gonna take them serious? Or maybe Kacey Musgraves or Maddie and Tae? Like that wouldn’t be self suicide. We’ve gone from Johnny “because you’re mine I walk the line” Cash to Luke “country girl shake it for me” Bryan. If it’s ok to say “it’s 2 a.m. you just dose off, time for me to take your country girl clothes off” straight to the ladies’ faces… It’s not hard to imagine what goes on behind closed doors. Nashville’s broken. Lets just admit it. The only way it’s going to get fixed is for people to demand a change. Think about it from a political point of view (and I’m not getting political here Trigger… just using this as an example). If a politician doesn’t deliver… the people vote him out and elect someone capable of delivering. Same goes for Nashville… if a record company back burners an artist that actually has talent or we find out who’s behind this harassment… we call them out. A lot of the responsibility rests upon our shoulders… the listeners, music buyers, and concert go-ers. But in order to demand a change we have to come out of our comfort zones. Something that unfortunately isn’t going to happen.
Trigger
January 19, 2018 @ 10:34 am
Also would like to point out that Austin Rick agrees with me on the importance of naming names:
https://twitter.com/austin_c_rick/status/954097219325620225
Whiskey_Pete
January 19, 2018 @ 11:42 am
I don’t get that case. I would not go full gay on some promise or job security.
Incognito
January 19, 2018 @ 9:05 pm
Austin didn’t *go* gay, he *is* gay.
HTS
January 21, 2018 @ 2:13 pm
If I were a young woman with a promising career, or one who is currently highly successful, who, what, when, where and how would I start this ball rolling? Who would I go to and with what, and is there any reasonable hope of protection or support?
HTS
January 21, 2018 @ 2:16 pm
….and if the senior women started to name names, what are they risking. There has to be some blowback for them too.
DJ
January 21, 2018 @ 4:54 pm
The law. That’s what it’s for.
CountryKicksAss
January 23, 2018 @ 11:59 am
Real nuts & bolts of current situations is one word MONEY. Every company ever in history of harassment knows information about those harassing and the harrassed. “Weinerstein” got caught because his brother of same company squealed, they got tired of paying out $$$ for his xtracurriculars. Only reason floodgates kept opening is because women and others of power and clout banded together. So if we hear more in music industry it will come down to who wants to stop paying money to cover up something
Countrygirl
January 24, 2018 @ 11:02 am
It’s not just radio. Nashville itself and the whole country scene is rife with abusers. If you’re twenty and willing to put out you get somewhere. Absolutely disgusting.