Ryan Adams FBI Investigation Closed with No Charges
Alt-country turned rock artist Ryan Adams has been cleared of wrongdoing in an FBI probe for his alleged inappropriate texts to an underage girl. The allegations were first reported in The New York Times as part of an extensive probe into the performer’s personal life, and his interactions with women over his career.
In February of 2019, The New York Times detailed how Ryan Adams would allegedly dangle music industry success in front of aspiring women as a way to pursue them sexually. As part of the allegations were the revelations of an aspiring bass player named “Ava” who said she exchanged private Twitter messages, text messages, and engaged in numerous Skype calls of a sexual nature with Adams when she was between the ages of 14 and 16, including the exchange of explicit photographs.
Throughout the exchanges, Ryan Adams had asked Ava if she was above 18, at one point asking her to prove it, saying, “Do me a paranoid favor, show me you are 18.” Ava, who is now believed to be 21, never did show Adams any proof of her age, but did verbally assure him she was over 18. The lawyer for Ryan Adams at the time said that Adams “never engaged in inappropriate online sexual communications with someone he knew was underage.”
Due to the allegations, the FBI opened a probe into Ryan’s behavior with Ava, according to The New York Times. However, no charges were ever filed, and no update was ever given by the FBI about the investigations. On July 13th, 2020, Saving Country Music reached out to the FBI to obtain an update on the status of the investigation. Spokesperson Tina Jagerson at the FBI said at the time, “We do not have a comment for you. Adhering to Department of Justice policy, the FBI neither confirms nor denies any investigation.”
But according to a recent report by Page Six, an individual inside the FBI confirmed, “Ultimately, the FBI found no evidence that would support charging Ryan with a crime, and closed its investigation, without charges, in the fall of 2019.”
Along with the accusations from Ava, numerous other women accused Ryan Adams of harassment and other inappropriate behavior, including ex-wife and actress Mandy Moore who says Adams was psychologically abusive during their relationship. At the time of the initial report from The New York Times, Ryan Adams admitted to some wrongdoing, but said, “the picture that this article paints is upsettingly inaccurate. Some of its details are misrepresented; some are exaggerated; some are outright false.”
The article came at the height of the #MeToo movement, and inspired alt-country artist Lydia Loveless to come out publicly about harassment she had experienced at the hands of the partner of Bloodshot Records co-owner Nan Warshaw, which resulted in Warshaw leaving the label. Bloodshot Records was one of the early labels for Ryan Adams.
Since The New York Times report, Ryan Adams has offered numerous apologies, including one in July of 2020 where he said in part, “There are no words to express how bad I feel about the ways I’ve mistreated people through my life and career. All I can say is that I’m sorry.” But many characterized the apology as self-serving and empty, while Mandy Moore said she should have received an apology in private, which Ryan Adams reportedly later did.
The fallout from The New York Times story resorted in Ryan Adams canceling a scheduled tour in 2019, and delaying the release of a new album. Adams did release the album called Wednesdays on December 11th, 2020, to little recognition from the press or industry.
January 19, 2021 @ 11:56 am
play summer of ’69, Ryan
January 19, 2021 @ 12:33 pm
That joke never gets old.
February 22, 2023 @ 11:48 am
No it doesn’t—if you don’t mind tired, unoriginal, lazy jokes.
January 19, 2021 @ 12:08 pm
Such a good song writer, it’s really too bad. It’s good that he didn’t turn out to be quite as big a scumbag as feared. I think it leaves room for rehabilitation. But I have thus far found his attempts to be unconvincing as well.
January 19, 2021 @ 9:54 pm
One of the downfalls of the MeToo era, for all the good it has done shining a light on instances of abuse… there’s a real tendency to flatten out perception of misbehavior.
Adams is accused by an ex-wife of being “emotionally abusive” which is a really friggin broad term. He’s also accused of “harassment” and “inappropriate behavior.” The specifics aren’t great, but also… really super normal scumbaggery. The sort of thing people are are mentally and emotionally unhealthy do to others.
The one thing he was accused of that was truly despicable? The relationship with an underage girl. And it seems clear, and seems he’s been vindicated in the fact that he thought she was over 18.
I hope he is learning from these things, and that he’s changing. People who behave in scuzzy ways often wind up in situations like the one he found himself in with the girl–even if through no intent of his own, his behavioral patterns left him open to that.
But also it’s a reminder to everyone else that there are layers and levels of predatory and perverted behavior, and it behooves us to make the distinction between scumbaggery and true evil.
January 20, 2021 @ 1:40 am
Show me one divorce where “emotional abuse” doesn’t come up
January 23, 2021 @ 10:44 am
Uhm there are countless examples of that. In my personal life I know at least 7 couples that divorced amicably and none had experienced emotional abuse.
May 17, 2021 @ 6:23 pm
Yeah, it is like how nearly every women will say her previous relationship was “toxic.”
January 19, 2021 @ 12:17 pm
Like the Redesigning Women video story, the silence by the music “news” industry seems to be as much of of a story as the actual news itself. Regardless of what anyone thinks of him or the allegations, one would think that this would be news (kudos to SCM for covering it). Pitchfork, as an example, posted over a dozen stories relating to the original story, including the fact that the FBI was investigating him. Yet, silence on this? If he was charged, for damn sure this would be headline news across many sites. But there seems to be a blackout on this news. Why? Not a shock to many people here, but once again the “news” proves itself to be more ideological and sensational propaganda than a reporting of events or actual news.
January 19, 2021 @ 12:23 pm
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
January 19, 2021 @ 1:25 pm
Unfortunately it’s all too common nowadays. The correction is a mere footnote or reply tweet, not worthy of its own story.
At the core I’m of it all, activist media types don’t care about being accurate. They care about being a bullhorn for their readership.
There’s no penalty for being wrong, unless you go too far and hit defamation/libel territory. If the story sells eyes, it gets published, regardless of how unfair or unsubstantiated the subject.
“Hey Ryan Adams probably didn’t do that thing we crushed him for in bad faith” is not an article that’s going to draw eyes at Pitchfork.
January 21, 2021 @ 1:40 pm
Meanwhile, Chris Brown, who actually beat a woman, gets routinely covered by Pitchfork and was nominated for a Grammy last year.
January 19, 2021 @ 1:30 pm
Generally speaking I agree with you Jake. But just to play a little devil’s advocate, when Ryan Adams released his last apology in July, 2020, I reached out to the FBI to check the status of the investigation, and was turned away. Other media members might have experienced the same thing. I’m not sure who the source is for “Page Six,”and I have no reason to believe it’s not credible. But I didn’t see this news until you pointed it out in a comment, and generally speaking, I’ve got my ear to the pavement pretty good. This is one of the reasons I operate a comments section. Lots of good info can be found here (believe it or not).
I have no doubt that some, if not many are reluctant to report this news, but most certainly would have if he’d been arrested or charged. But part of it too might be that the news came out through a non music outlet, so it may have just been missed by some.
January 19, 2021 @ 1:42 pm
Always good to play devils advocate. It’s possible they just didn’t know. But I think there’s something much larger at play here. I saw somewhere else that one of your regular commenters was shutout of even trying to post this information. I’ll leave it to him to mention it if he wants to.
I’d love to give the benefit of the doubt, but having spent quite a bit of time digging a little deeper on some of the bigger more sensational stories over the last few years, a very distinct pattern emerges. This should be concerning to us all, regardless of our politics. I try to lay blame as directly as I can, but the increasing biased and often fraudulent news industry doesn’t help the growing pervasiveness of “conspiracy theories.”
January 20, 2021 @ 9:28 am
Would dozens of articles about how Ryan got away with child porn be a good thing? It seems that would get as much of the intended outrage the media is looking for as the original story did.
To me, this is a case of Trigger doing his due diligence rather than an indictment of the “media”.
January 20, 2021 @ 10:45 pm
There’s a lot of confusion here. The weight of the evidence suggests that Ryan Adams engaged in vicious domestic violence and was serial leverager of his power to manipulate/coerce sex from women and a girl, Ava.
What the FBI appears to have done is conduct a probe into one very specific allegation contained in the NYT piece amidst a slew of others and determined that charges can’t be brought for soliciting sexual contact from Ava because he didn’t know she was a child at the time. Of course, that doesn’t mean he didn’t do exactly that; instead, as his lawyer said, the FBI just can’t prove he knew it. His fit of “paranoia” at the time notwithstanding.
He wasn’t “cleared of wrongdoing” as claimed by the opening sentence of this article; they just can’t meet the bar for charges on one very specific allegation due to the thinnest reed of plausible deniability.
People do horrific things and then evade legal repercussions; that’s the case of Ryan Adams. He was a wrongdoer, even in the case of Ava.
It’s Ryan Adams who needs to do his work and take accountability, not the “mainstream media”. Second chances are good, but gotta do the work first.
January 20, 2021 @ 11:25 pm
You’re right, the nature of the accusations stay the same. But Ryan Adams was “cleared of wrongdoing” in the FBI probe, meaning they did not believe he engaged in any illegal acts since “Ava” was purposely misleading him about her age. Yes, the acts still remain, but that is different from willfully engaging in sexual conduct with a minor.
January 21, 2021 @ 10:41 am
My understanding of criminal investigating bodies is that they say things like “we wont be charging” versus “he did nothing wrong”. And that distinction strikes me as important.
January 20, 2021 @ 11:52 pm
A) Lookup the definition of a child.
B) Read the actual allegations. “Vicious domestic violence?” Even the worst of the allegations don’t claim that. Literally none of them.
C) Try to wrap your head around the concept of who needs to “do the work” in a society, (in theory at least), founded on the presumption of innocence.
Then, finally, come back and tell me again about the “confusion” in MY comment, and try a little harder to convince me that a share price driven, corporate business, whose sole mission is to sell your short attention span to the pharmaceutical industry and other major corporations, doesn’t engage in unscrupulous sensationalism. It’ll be even funnier the next time. ????
January 21, 2021 @ 10:32 am
You’re saying Ava wasn’t a child at the time?
What in Mandy Moore’s description of his treatment of her didn’t strike you as domestic violence?
You’re of the opinion that Ryan Adams doesn’t really have work to do to change how he does relationships with women? Having the FBI say “we can’t charge him cause the child he was doing sexual activity with he didn’t know was a child” absolves him of responsibility to change his behavior?
January 21, 2021 @ 11:12 am
And… you didn’t disappoint. My final comment on this: I’m not here to defend the guy’s actions. As many have pointed out, he can be an “asshole.” I don’t agree with his alleged behavior, if we take the allegations at face value. I also disagree with the overuse of hyperbole, inaccurate language, and painting this guy as a monster, as a way to drive a talking point narrative. “Psychological abuse,” – even if we call it that, which is debatable, is not the same thing as “vicious domestic violence”, nor was Ava a “child,” by definition. Criticize him all you want, I don’t disagree with much of it, but this broad stroke, over exaggeration isn’t helping anything, and it sounds pretty ignorant, especially when you’re here to tell us about “confusion.”
January 21, 2021 @ 11:42 am
I work with families impacted by domestic violence and I can assure you that the manifold ramifications of the kind of DV that Ryan Adams perpetrated are heinous. Both on the ground data and rock-solid research findings affirm it.
I’m similarly troubled by concept creep for phenomena like “violence” generally and “trauma”. This isn’t that.
https://www.amazon.com/No-Visible-Bruises-Domestic-Violence/dp/1635570980/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=bruises+domestic+violence&qid=1611253365&sr=8-4
I expect that you’d abhorred to learn one of your loved ones was treated like Mandy Moore was. It’d be time well spent to sit with that feeling and consider expanding your sphere of moral consideration.
January 21, 2021 @ 3:16 pm
I hope you’re not walking around in this world thinking there’s a meaningful distinction between “child” and a 14 year-old in the context of sexual abuse, as your comment suggests. That’s what’s
going on here when you claim Ava wasn’t “technically” a child. What could possibly be the moral import of being pedantic about that? Gross.
I work with men who are domestic abusers so that they can stop doing it. I’m on their team, not demonizing. I hear this idea from men with toxicity all the time where psychological and emotional emotional abuse are put into quotes all the time. But in my experience, you know who never has trouble with the concept: POW’s.
January 21, 2021 @ 4:25 pm
“It’d be time well spent to sit with that feeling and consider expanding your sphere of moral consideration.”
Respectfully state that you spend time delving into the meanings of the words, horrific and heinous.
That you are a social worker, who work with men who have a propensity towards violence is concerning, after reading your texts.
January 21, 2021 @ 5:56 pm
Di, Harris, gonna go out on a limb and suggest you’d benefit from the “men’s group” offered at my agency. I wish I was kidding.
January 21, 2021 @ 6:14 pm
Benefit in what way Ryan?
This is a sincere and respectful question to you
January 21, 2021 @ 6:29 pm
Hoards of you acting as soft apologists for Ryan Fucking Adam’s and his odious values, beliefs, and behaviors so long as it supports the narrative that really what’s going on here is that men are being unfairly maligned by the out-of-control allies of “Me Too” and the movement’s “overreach” and the “MSM” needs a good calling out on it. Looks at this unfairness to Ryan Fucking Adams. Men as victims of a political agenda amplified by the MSM; as though fighting that isn’t some countervailing political agenda itself.
If you find yourself making the point that Ava wasn’t “technically” a child or that Ryan Adams wasn’t “heinous” in the service trying to dunk on the MSM it could be the case that your self-nurtured victim status and its hunger for affirmation might be leading you astray.
January 21, 2021 @ 6:39 pm
Di Harris—if you take in what Ryan Adams has done and find yourself rejecting or quibbling over whether it can be defined as “heinous” or “horrific” then you’re, at minimum, harboring confused ideas about DV. We’d start there. I bet you’d come around. You asking that question is reason to hope. Sincerely, cause you’re being sincere.
Many men have been victims of DV themselves as children. They remember the pain and feel it even as they love their Dads, and even perpetrate themselves, in the case of some. That’s true for men everywhere, including on this site.
This book isn’t perfect but it’s good enough to recommend.
https://www.amazon.com/No-Visible-Bruises-Domestic-Violence/dp/1635570980/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=dv+bruises&qid=1611279395&sr=8-1
January 21, 2021 @ 6:43 pm
“If you find yourself making the point that Ava wasn’t “technically” a child or that Ryan Adams wasn’t “heinous” in the service trying to dunk on the MSM it could be the case that your self-nurtured victim status and its hunger for affirmation might be leading you astray.”
You made my point beautifully.
You have no business being in social work. Or “helping men.”
“your self-nurtured victim status and its hunger for affirmation might be leading you astray.”
I don’t play the victim card sweetheart.
Something happens that needs corrected, i damn well take care of it.
It is not i who have been led astray.
Interested to know where “Ava’s” parents, or guardians were during the time that she was sexting with Ryan.
A 14 to 16 year old with an unsupervised cell phone?
Yeah, Uh No
January 23, 2021 @ 1:49 am
“ A 14 to 16 year old with an unsupervised cell phone?”
This is about the most normal thing in the world. But sure let’s blame the parents and a 14 year old for the predatory behavior of a 46 year old man.
January 19, 2021 @ 12:21 pm
Girl said she was 18. So how’s that considered underage?
January 20, 2021 @ 6:40 am
Because she was 14. Simple. He got off because he had evidence she lied to him. Let’s be careful, if a girl is too young for you, so young that you repeatedly ask for some proof, you should probably move on, don’t you think?
January 20, 2021 @ 8:32 am
He’s 46 and even engaging with an 18 year-old is scummy. The fact that people on this board are defending this scumbag is so gross.
Also Ryan Adams is hipster trash.
January 20, 2021 @ 11:23 am
Scummy but not illegal.
January 19, 2021 @ 12:25 pm
So he’s an asshole but can’t be proven to have committed a crime?
As someone who is a huge fan of Adam’s music (whiskeytown was amazing, I love several of his solo albums heartbreaker, cold roses, Jacksonville city nights) I can’t help but notice how weird the attitude towards him by some folks here is.
He’s in many ways a favorite punching bag for the fans of this site since he’s viewed as insufficiently country and he had those comments about not liking country music. But despite how much he epitomizes everything this site hates, the one thing that makes people defend him in the comments is being accused of abusive behavior.
Old 97s wrote Crush On the Barrelhead about what an asshole Adams is in like 1998 I think? He’s been accused of abusive behavior by multiple people and not even denied it. He’s certainly a massive asshole. But for some reason this is the only thing some people like about him.
I would get it if you were a Stan for him cause he makes great music. But the people who hate his music but will Stan for anybody who has been “cancelled” baffle me.
But yes it should be noted as this article says that’s it cannot be proven he knowingly broke the law.
January 19, 2021 @ 12:36 pm
Mainstream media won’t mention this story cause they don’t want to upset the new “It” girl Phoebe Bridgers.
The Mandy Moore allegations were ridiculous. She in a public forum trashed him snd then got upset when he apologized in a public forum. If he didn’t apologize publicly people would have been all over him for not doing so.
January 20, 2021 @ 4:09 am
I also find it weird how Phoebe got REALLY famous last year with an average album. O got to know her when all this Ryan Adams thing exploded and I bet many people knew her through this as well. ( Not cool also to have a first single ever as a diss song)
January 23, 2021 @ 1:46 am
Wow… so now Adams is the victim and Bridgers is the bad ‘guy’ somehow?
You guys really are taking victim blaming to a whole new leveel…
January 19, 2021 @ 12:56 pm
If her were guilty, the press would be all over it. Now that he is innocent, legally speaking, it does not fit the woke agenda of the laughable media, therefore it is dropped. I sure do hope Americans see through their scumbag of an industry. They are, for the most part, an emabrassment to rational thinking.
January 19, 2021 @ 2:18 pm
It’s funny who this kind of shit only happens to habitually bad people.
January 19, 2021 @ 8:58 pm
Yep. Good for him being legally cleared, but if she was 17 or 18 or even 28… doesn’t change how immoral / unethical he was acting. Legality only matters in a law court. Here in the court of public opinion…guilty.
January 19, 2021 @ 9:56 pm
Well, guilty of being a scumbag. Not guilty of intentionally going after underage girls.
There’s a pretty wide gulf between the two.
January 20, 2021 @ 8:39 am
There’s not a “wide gulf” between underage and 18. There’s also not a “wide gulf” to his repeated actions and those not caught.
January 19, 2021 @ 2:22 pm
Trying to hook up over the internet makes no sence to me anyway. I hope he learned his lesson. on a note of a different subject, not really suprised trigger has not posted about Garth Brooks performing at Biden’s inaugeration. the right wingers heads would explode. cussing at Garth and calling him a communist. So i do not blame trigger. look at what happened to Garth when he wore a Sanders jacket and the trump bots thought it was Bernie Sanders , But it was Barry Sanders . they threw a fit. I DO NOT CARE EITHER WAY.
I am a green party person . I do not care what party affiliation my favorite singers belong to. I follow Tami Neilson on twitter. She is a progressive Democrat. Travis Tritt is a conservative Republican. even if I can disagree with their Politics, I can still love their music. I wish every one would think like it. do not let politics get in the way of great music.
January 19, 2021 @ 3:30 pm
Garth Brooks is a shameless opportunist and a huckster. Had Trump won a second term and asked Brooks to perform, he would have been there with bells on. Garth worships at the Alter of Garth and is a member of the party of G. I will not deny he released some solid albums, Scarecrow being the last good one in my opinion, but he comes across as a megalomaniac and a phoney.
January 19, 2021 @ 2:42 pm
I also think it is sad when Willie Nelson gets a Covid Shot, Conservatives yell and complain . because he is a democrat. well gop, LORETTA LYNN got a covid shot. staying alive during a pandemic should not be political. wearing a mask, getting a vaccine. that is not political. It is just plain smart. not doing it, during a pandemic is just plain stupid. and to those who think the pandemic is a hoax, try telling that to the 400,000 people who DIED FROM THIS VIRUS. I am sure their families would disagree with you.
January 19, 2021 @ 3:34 pm
I wonder if he’ll still play Sweet Li’l Gal…
January 19, 2021 @ 3:42 pm
As many others have said, RA has proven himself capable of being an asshole many times over. I’ve seen that behaviour at his gigs. (I appreciate being an asshole is clearly very different from being accused of a serious criminal offence).
Now that we know no charges are being filed, I wonder if his biggest problem, other than dealing with the assholery, will be finding his place once more as a relevant artist? I’m an unabashed fan and have seen him live more times than any other artist, but even I can’t help but think his moment was almost 20 years ago now.
January 19, 2021 @ 4:45 pm
This must have been the same FBI field office that spent a couple weeks investigating a garage door pull in Alabama.
January 19, 2021 @ 6:10 pm
This is how misinformation spreads. Page Six is a celebrity gossip site that has an anonymous informant in the FBI, of all places? I don’t buy it.
I get that truly everyone is choosing which sources to believe and cite but this is about as close to the bottom of the barrel as you can get.
January 19, 2021 @ 8:18 pm
I had the same thought myself for a minute. It is hard to know who to believe, honestly…so I think that’s a fair point. But it’s been 2 years since the investigation started and he hasn’t been arrested, so there’s that. There also hasn’t been anyone in the long line of detractors to shoot it down, so there’s also that. Finally, when the New York Times calls an anonymous source a “senior White House official,” but it turns out he was a low level aid at the DHS, would you call that top or bottom of the barrel? They’re all shit, which is why people shouldn’t have put so much faith in a sensationalist story to begin with.
January 20, 2021 @ 1:07 am
Hopefully the people who were cancelling him will take a look in the mirror.
January 19, 2021 @ 8:42 pm
Anyone have an opinion on the new album?
January 19, 2021 @ 11:05 pm
10/10
January 20, 2021 @ 1:39 am
Possibly his very best
January 29, 2021 @ 1:29 pm
Really good, probably his best since the 2005 run.
March 10, 2021 @ 6:32 pm
I think it’s awful. And I was hoping it would be good. Amateurish and trite for the most part. Anyone saying it’s possibly his best must not have listened to anything he put out before Cardinology.
January 20, 2021 @ 5:17 am
Nothing country about alt-country.
January 20, 2021 @ 7:43 am
great song writer, even better douchebag. I’m ok with him not being arrested. In the court of public opinion he’s done.
January 20, 2021 @ 8:33 am
He’s 46 and even engaging with an 18 year-old is scummy. The fact that people on this board are defending this scumbag is so gross.
Also Ryan Adams is hipster trash.
January 21, 2021 @ 12:08 pm
Top of the barrel. Pretty sure the guy, Miles Taylor, was chief of staff for the DHS at one point. I don’t see the problem with the nytimes there or with Ryan Adams. And just like you doubt the media, many other people doubt the justice system. No arrest =\= no wrongdoing.
January 21, 2021 @ 12:09 pm
Sorry, my comment was directed at Jake
January 21, 2021 @ 4:39 pm
He was an aide at the time of the story, promoted later. It was a lie, which we only know about because he outed himself.
January 21, 2021 @ 6:49 pm
He served as deputy chief of staff when he wrote the piece in 2018 and was then promoted to chief of staff in 2019. It was not a lie.
January 21, 2021 @ 7:38 pm
Also known as an aide, and called exactly that by both the LA times and Boston Globe, just to name a couple of other outlets. Here’s a good quote from WAPO on the story: “I would not describe him as a senior administration official,” said Joe Lockhart, who served as press secretary in the Clinton administration.”
This has strayed a bit off topic. My final comment is that The NYT has proven itself to be shit, time and time again. Be it the cover story for the Iraq invasion, this Taylor nonsense, or even something as trivial as the Kidd G story. Sure, they have hard partisans and activists that will gleefully eat up anything that agrees with their worldview, but to anyone with half a brain, they continue to erode whatever credibility they ever had.
January 21, 2021 @ 8:27 pm
And also not a junior or low-level position, as you stated. There are senior aides that work in the White House.
I brought this up because you’re trying to discredit an entire news organization based on some unclear wording (not even the information provided) in a completely different story. Is there any evidence that the very detailed reporting the times did about Ryan Adams is inaccurate? More than debating whether or not Ava is a child?
January 21, 2021 @ 8:57 pm
First, learn how to reply to a comment. Second, I’m trying to discredit a newspaper infamous for “it’s denial of, and thereby exasperation of widespread famine in the USSR,” that published the aluminum tube story that was used to justify the Iraq war, and that turned their back on the genocide in East Timor? I have to TRY to discredit them? There dozens and dozens more examples but this isn’t the place.
No, I don’t have any evidence, do you? What I do have is a little bit of healthy skepticism of a business that is implicated in a lot of death and corruption, not to mention its use of sensationalism to sell ad revenue. You clearly don’t, and that’s your choice. Truly my last comment. Apologies, Trigger, for the back and forth.
January 21, 2021 @ 9:33 pm
Since we’ve entered into the petty part of this convo, learn some grammar, especially when quoting. ‘Its’ not ‘it’s.’ Yes, there is a difference.
Again, what do your examples have to do with Joe Coscarelli and Melena Ryzik, music and culture writers who weren’t even employed for half the scandals you’re rambling about? Melena won a Pulitzer for her reporting on sexual assault cases. But maybe she just made it all up. And maybe the Pulitzer people didn’t care because they’re a biased organization, too.
Typically skepticism is backed up by reason, not just a perma-frown at a news organization. The times provided its evidence and you provided some feelings on how people shouldn’t trust them about Ryan Adams because of Miles Taylor and Timor but you’re not defending him but also Ava isn’t a child (at 14) and Page Six is reliable even though they’re all shit. Yeah, there’s nothing ‘healthy’ about that.
January 21, 2021 @ 11:11 pm
I wonder if his disdain for the NYT has anything to do with just not liking it because it’s associated with “liberalism”. The biased masquerading as the unbiased, being led around by the nose. The masquerade so thorough he’s tricked himself. Yet another who is what he decries.
Jake Cutter’s takes can and always will be reflex, predictable and partisan. Even if the reflex requires him to publicly hold the grotesque and bizarre view that in the context of discussing sexual abuse that a 14 year-old girl isn’t a “child”, they still overwhelm and win. But he’ll assure you he’s just an independent thinker, weighing the “evidence”; a crusader for truth who always seems to end up advancing a conservative position.
And “Learn how to reply to comments” is his trump card; asserting and proving his superior position.
January 22, 2021 @ 12:11 am
Good to wonder, and I myself am open to self reflection (I think), hidden psychological motivation, and to exposing my own biases in the name of knowing myself (to the extent it’s possible). Your comment, however, misrepresents every one of my intentions and what I’ve said, in such a way as to only confirm my earlier impression of your weak and goalpost shifting arguments. So, I’m not sure of the point exactly. The only thing I find interesting in all of this, is how I seem to have struck a nerve by highlighting the dark side of a business enterprise with a pathetic (and bloody) track record. You two can discuss further all you want though, along with your moral indignation of my attempt to use more accurate language. If that’s what makes you happy, really, have at it guys. Or, maybe like me, you too feel this topic has run its course, and you can come get me on my Eric Church post. Advance warning though, it’s pretty dumb, and without this much meat for you to chew on. ????
January 22, 2021 @ 1:42 am
I’m gonna take your advice, follow my joy, and hit reply. That’s what the comment section is for. 🙂
For me, it’s less about believing/disbelieving the times and more about ‘healthy’ skepticism, as you put it. You’re aware of the news over the past few years, yes? Wherever you fall on the political spectrum, it’s clear misinformation is a big problem. So when I see someone trying to take down an established, respected news entity (which isn’t to say they’re 100% perfect and shouldn’t be questioned) over literal semantics and admitting to having NO evidence to back up their heartfelt disbelief, it’s time to bust out the keyboard. Turns out I’m fight instead flight, inasmuch as that can apply to an Internet chat with a stranger. (I think you’ll like that image. My gift to you!)
January 22, 2021 @ 8:22 am
As I stated, I have dozens upon dozens of other examples. I provided 5. 1 trivial one from a few days ago about music, also criticized by Trigger, one from a couple months ago, and 3 historical. These were just the tip of the iceberg. I also listened to the podcast about the behind the scenes of the Ryan Adams story, in which your Pulitzer winning journalist revealed that their smoking gun was that Ryan must have seen a YouTube video that described her age at the time. They had no evidence of that, but confidently accused him of it anyway. And now, despite their “evidence,” the FBI cleared him? Could he really still be guilty and could the FBI be wrong? Of course….but come on. A history of fabrication and lies, that leads up to this day, no charges filed….I’ll not only ask why an honest, rational person wouldn’t be skeptical….I’ll ask, what’s wrong with people that aren’t? You want to complain about the last 4 years, about a politician talking about fake news, usually to satisfy his ego? Now everyone’s all worried about conspiracy theories? How about we hold our news accountable, so that we can start trusting them again, instead of cultishly picking sides and believing everything like sheep.
January 22, 2021 @ 8:48 am
I think at the least, the New York Times needs to report that the Ryan Adams investigation by the FBI has closed, since they were the first to report it was opened.
There was actually a massive scandal with one of their award-winning podcasts recently as well, that didn’t receive a lot of attention, but was seen in the media as one of the biggest media scandals in recent years.
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/18/944594193/new-york-times-retracts-hit-podcast-series-caliphate-on-isis-executioner
January 22, 2021 @ 10:23 am
@Trigger… yeah that’s interesting. I hadn’t heard of that, but it’s par for the course. The hit and run, bury the retractions (or follow up) playbook rolls on. And they get away with it, because they are all too aware that their readers don’t care about the truth… they just want to hear things that agree with their worldview, and are happy to, for example call a lie a “copy edit.” Then they turn around and complain about people not trusting the liars.
Your response is, as usual, is more level headed and grounded than mine. Indeed, they should at least report on the follow up. Anyone holding their breath?
January 22, 2021 @ 10:38 am
Trigger, Joe Coscarelli responded to the alleged closing (which the times likely couldn’t independently verify, just as you couldn’t) on Twitter and stated he stood by his reporting. I’m fine with that response.
That scandal and response is an error being corrected as it should be. They were called out (as virtually every newspaper has been in their history) and issued a retraction. That is how you hold a newspaper accountable, not posting vague doubt about entirely unrelated articles and writers from a different department. It’s important to remember that organizations are made up of people.
January 22, 2021 @ 10:48 am
“That is how you hold a newspaper accountable, not posting vague doubt about entirely unrelated articles and writers from a different department.”
I was just adding to the discussion here in a comments section. I’m not calling anyone out. But there most certainly has been a pattern of behavior across the New York Times leading to fair concern about a lack of editorial accountability under the current regime.
January 22, 2021 @ 11:42 am
And if evidence arises that legitimately contradicts the Ryan Adams piece we can have an actually fruitful discussion about what he did or didn’t do instead of the reaching concerns present in this comments section.
January 22, 2021 @ 8:52 am
Ryan,
You have now crossed into the territory of sounding like a pedophile.
January 22, 2021 @ 9:45 am
Dozens and dozens of other examples, which likely have nothing to do with Joe Coscarelli, Melena Ryzik, or even music journalism. If your protestations are as weak as the Miles Taylor example, then we’re going to be arguing about copy editing instead of actual events. And it turns out, they are! Do you know what was also said on that podcast and put in print?
“Several legal experts said that decisions on whether to prosecute such cases could hinge on whether the adult reasonably believed the minor was of legal age, taking into account context from their conversations.”
And:
“Sometimes, in response to Adams’s prodding, Ava said she was older than she was. More than once Adams asked to see her identification, although she never provided any in the messages reviewed by The Times, and their sexual conversations continued.”
It’s not even between the lines, it’s right there. Ava, a child, lied. And no matter how awful and gross Ryan Adams was that’s a massive hurdle that has nothing to do with how credible the times is or isn’t — they’re the ones reporting this.
I agree with you. Be skeptical about the news. Ask some questions. Post about it on social media. But when the results come back and you’re debating word choice as well as logical conclusions that YOU entirely misrepresented as a fake ‘smoking gun,’ then you know the problem isn’t the media you hate so much, it’s yourself.
January 23, 2021 @ 10:50 am
Is this really the kind of reply you want on your pages, Trig?
People calling others paedophiles because they disagree with them?
January 23, 2021 @ 11:14 am
No, it’s not. But many of the comments here are probably things I don’t want on my pages. But that’s not really for me to decide. It’s an open forum, and as soon as I start curating things, I bring my own bias to the situation. That’s the beef many have with Twitter and big tech. So I run an open forum, and unless people clearly break a rule by making threats or using extremely problematic language, it’s allowed to be challenged in the realm of ideas, just like Sandman did, whose comment would have also been deleted if I deleted the previous comment.
January 24, 2021 @ 3:38 am
Telling someone they “sound like a pedophile” just because you are having a hard time debating them is not “using extremely problematic language”?
Okay….
January 23, 2021 @ 10:59 am
The post above says “someone within the FBI” confirmed no investigation, but the Page 6 article says “a source with knowledge of the investigation.” That’s a noteable difference that should be corrected. The FBI rarely comments on such matters. The source was probably someone on Adams’s side (e.g., his lawyer). That doesn’t render it inaccurate, but it’s different for the FBI versus someone else to claim an FBI investigation is over.
January 23, 2021 @ 11:45 am
Danny,
“A 14 to 16 year old with an unsupervised cell phone?”
“This is about the most normal thing in the world. But sure let’s blame the parents and a 14 year old for the predatory behavior of a 46 year old man.”
One of a parents or guardians most important concern in raising children is to see that the child is safe.
Children should have electronics monitored.
A child is 18 & out of the house? Then that young person needs to be somewhat self regulating in their activities on their cell phones, etc.
Hopefully that child has been taught that sexting is not an ideal activity on their phones.
IF (qualifier) a 14, 16, 10, 9, 8, year old is sexting (pick an age) then there is a problem. A huge problem.
And if you think a young female literally exhibiting these behaviours is headed toward being a responsible adult, think again.
There are 8 & 10 year olds out there doing unspeakable things for their “boyfriends.” Already competing in trying to hold on to their “man.”
Damn Straight the parents need to be supervising the kids
January 23, 2021 @ 9:27 pm
Ryan Adams Cleared!
According to *checks notes* ahh yes, Page 6.
January 26, 2021 @ 6:33 am
As I read through these comments I couldn’t help thinking of the lyrics of the Rolling Stones song “Stray Cat Blues.” How times have changed.
January 30, 2021 @ 11:09 am
We seem to be so much guilty until proven innocent these days. Not condoning anything he has ( or may) have done, But a comment or two over last couple of years against may actors, singers etc and it’s pitchfork time.
How many still rate Steve Earle or Chuck Berry as wonderful artists despite their shall we say chequered past?
February 10, 2021 @ 12:16 pm
I’ve always said, murders and arson and rivalries aside, that Steve Earle is the Euronymous of country music…and Ryan Adams is its Varg Vikernes.
April 4, 2022 @ 5:22 am
If a 46 year old woman slept with an 18, 19 or even 20 something year old man she be lifted up in the press with a round of “YOU GO GIRL!” by most of the feminists in the world. For most of human history it would have been considered normal for an older man to marry a younger woman. It still is considered normal amongst many parts, if not the majority of the world. The only reason you and people like you don’t see that is because we live in a society that has been brainwashed into the ideals of feminism. Also be aware that single older women don’t like it when single older men date younger women because the older women see the younger ones as competition. I believe this to be one of the reasons older men are shamed for doing it.