This New Shooter Jennings’ “XXX” Genre
A while back it was brought to my attention that industrial rocker Shooter Jennings, along with No Depression blogger Adam Sheets had crafted the idea of starting a new genre of music, or more specifically, a radio format, called “XXX” after the nomenclature found on the front of moonshine bottles. The idea is to give a home to music that “is too rock for country, and too country for rock.”
I’ll start off by saying that I respect Adam Sheets as a writer, though I don’t always agree with him, and that I like what is at the heart of this idea. Finally, FINALLY, an artist is trying to show some kind of goddamn leadership, in some capacity, whatsoever. Back in the mid-2000’s artists like Shooter and Hank III and Dale Watson created this huge army of loyal fans of which this website grew out of, but then sometime in ’07-’08, the leadership when completely silent, and this massive army of supporters has been bivouacked, willing and ready to march but with absolutely no guidance whatsoever. I also appreciate that this idea is meant to bring disparate elements together under a big tent, to organize, which is another needful element I’ve been preaching about for years.
The problem is, is that there are many problems with XXX. The main one, and the one that is the deal killer for me, is that this focuses on radio. Why do we give a shit if radio is playing this music or not? I mean yes, it would be great if the “too country” and “too rock” crowd got more radio play, but radio is a dying industry that is fighting massive contraction while hemorrhaging money. Why are we coveting what they have? Why would we moor ourselves to that sinking ship?
Radio is the past, and they are fighting shrinking revenues by making the same mistakes that got them in this pickle–homogenizing formats and bleeding regionalism out of music. Shooter should know this, he’s a satellite guy, though satellite is having their own problems. And it also plays right into the hands of Shooter’s critics who say that he’s a whiny, spoiled rich kid who when he doesn’t get his way, throws a temper tantrum; that’s why he left his country label and put out an album which at times was filled with pretentious envy bordering on self-righteous rage. This idea seems to be born out of anger and envy instead of innovation.
Podcasts, virtual concerts, things like SCM LIVE, and the few independently-run radio stations like KOOK with robust online listenerships are the wave of the radio future. People will be listening on their computers and smart phones. Screw radio, we’re too good for them. And why set the ceiling so low as to say all we want is a place at the radio table? The problems with the infrastructure for good music of any genre is much more widespread. Swing for the fences.
And then there’s these lists of bands that have been populated for XXX. So you’re telling me Arson Anthem and the Avett Brothers are in the same genre? I love Black Joe Lewis, but he’s retro soul/funk. Hell, I can’t even get past the ‘B’s’ and I can tell this won’t work. And I also don’t like all this language about “southern bands.” The south is so choked by pop country these days, a lot of the great bands are coming from California, the Pacific Northwest, and the Upper Midwest. Whitey Morgan & The 78’s from Michigan are on the list, and so are The Devil Makes Three from California. I’m not really understanding this.
The band list looks like it was populated by a few select people asserting their own music tastes, instead of taking a step back and a broad look at the full musical spectrum that would create this genre or “format” by its own designated parameters. Where is the .357 String Band? They are the definition of “too rock for country.” Where is The Reverend Horton Heat? One could make the argument that he was vital to the formation of music that is too rock and too country. To know where you’re going, you have to know where you’ve been, and I see little homage paid to the mid-90’s scene on lower Broadway in Nashville where the vast majority of these band’s sound sprouted from. BR549 isn’t on here, but James McMurtry is, but Ray Wylie Hubbard isn’t? I’m totally confused.
And then on the list of bands that “Came Before Us” you have Pantera, but their side project with David Allan Coe “Rebel Meets Rebel” is on the current bands list. And Loretta Lynn and Merle Haggard are artists that bridged rock and country? These lists are all over the road like a drunk bloke who could blow a 2.0. And let’s not give up the fight for the term “country” so easily. What’s wrong with saying Whitey Morgan is country, and the crap they play on the radio is not?
With all respect to Shooter and Adam Sheets, this thing looks like it went off SO half cocked. Why not solicit for ideas from a spectrum of core thinkers before submitting it for public consumption? Not to sound like an arrogant bastard, but why not consult me? I talk about most of the bands on their lists all the time. When Shooter made the switch from country/southern rock to more industrial-style rock, what was the one outlet who covered that story, even in the face of whining fans who swore I was a liar? It wasn’t No Depression. Who was the first to review his new album Black Ribbons? I was the media outlet for Shooter, because I saw the importance in covering his transition, and because nobody else was. And what happened to Shooter now calling himself Black Country Rock?
And this isn’t my first time at the rodeo talking about creating new music formats. 10 months ago I proposed a very similar thing called Anti-country, but I did so not by asserting my reality-tunneled ideas without any outside help, I submitted it to my readership as a question, asking for their feedback. I have not written off the Anti-Country idea, I’m just waiting for the right time or the right angle. The principle difference between the two ideas is that XXX is mostly concerned about radio, while Anti-Country would focus on all aspects of supporting music.
But they both have a problem with the names themselves meaning different things to people. Yes, XXX is also the notation for pornography, just like Anti-Country could be misconstrued as being against country music, or even against the United States.
I don’t want to completely dismiss this idea. If you go to givememyxxx.com, and what you read speaks to you, then by all means sign the petition. (And that’s another thing, who are we petitioning exactly?) Give this idea at least a chance, because at its heart I do believe there is some good stuff. But I will not be signing it, at least for the moment. I see a LOT of work to be done here, tweaking the message, fixing confusing lists of artists, which at this point I don’t even know if such lists are important. So much more should have been done before putting this out for the public.
But people who are anti-Shooter (and there are a lot of them) should not just wholesale write off this idea just because Shooter is at the helm. I do think long-term Shooter’s involvement could hold the idea back, but XXX should be judged on its own merit. If it’s a good idea, it should be allowed to fly, and at least Shooter is trying to do something and show some bit of leadership.
My thoughts. What are yours?
IceColdCountry
January 10, 2011 @ 2:40 pm
Trigger, thanks for the information, I had heard nothing of this.
I am curious and perhaps confused- I do support your articles lashing out at pop country- but the first part of this article you are very clear that radio is a dying place, and why should we care about it.
“Why are we coveting what they have? Why would we moor ourselves to that sinking ship?”
So with that said, why should we be so concerned about “pop-country” on the radio?
If radio is a dead end, beyond calling out a shitty song that we hear on a major market radio station, why all the energy and anger directed at pop country, that feeds and lives off radio and video?
Sounds like, according to this article, radio isn’t worth our worry or time. The article about Colt Ford’s new song- why such angst toward it and artists teaming up with him? That song is going to be played on the radio. Which is where shitty country is going to die.
I don’t want it to seem as though I am disagreeing with anything in this or other articles, but as I was reading it, I kind of thought “isn’t part of what this site is upset about is they can’t get heard on radio to the masses because the corporate machine promotes pop-country? Yet hear is a group trying to get some lesser known artists on the radio, and you say that is a waste of time.”
The Triggerman
January 10, 2011 @ 3:20 pm
No, this is a good point Icecold, let me clarify:
I do think that fighting for what is on the radio is important. Creating a radio format with the intention of trying to better the future of artist I think is completely foolish because of where radio is headed. I think we have to fight for the present, and game plan for the future. And what I and many other’s see as the future of radio is an industry run by robots with formats controlled nearly 100% by corporations on a national level, and continuing the dramatic drops in listeners and revenue. Moving forward people will seek out what they listen to more specific to their tastes, and so formats that hone in on a specific scene or style are going to be the most successful. Think of them as “micro-formats” or “micro-genres” as the mainstream coagulates into a mono-genre. From what I’ve seen of the XXX idea so far, it doesn’t game plan for the future.
declared ungovernable
January 10, 2011 @ 3:29 pm
I like that there are ideas forming and people wanting to approach a real issue in music today. I have a problem with the XXX title. For a couple reasons.
To me, XXX are letters you use as a “blank filler”, and if it came from that stance, I may be more accepting of it. But not as moonshine reference for a genre. While alcohol seems to be a common thread in all music and with fans, I don’t like that it would be associated for a genre. Don’t musicians have enough problems with alcohol associations, let alone outlaw and alt. country artists?
When I read the title of the article on a Facebook link, I thought Shooter was making a “too raunchy” record, not trying to initiate a genre for music. I think the fact that for most people XXX symbolizes porn, potentially runs off listeners and industry executives that may subliminally associate the music genre with the adult industry.
As for the artists of the past that are listed, I believe that these artists have their genre slots. There was less diversity decades ago and while many are still relevant today, they are related to the music of today, not many are the music of today. While some are producing works, many are not. And isn’t that what radio and videos are for? To introduce new artists and satisfy the need to hear some of the favorites? Let’s face it, people have been hearing the stuff they will play on radio for years when it comes to the classics. DJs rarely venture away from the standard playlist on the mainstream channels. Thats a programming issue if you ask me.
I find that people everywhere classify their music differently, mainly based on when you were born. What is new wave to me may be old wave to others. What I consider hardcore may be punk to another. I prefer to label my music with what I classify it as, not what the label does.
The main problem outside of the radio/video issue is that many people know to look for the genre as a way to identify the music. As we can see, this is no longer working for people. If this could be figured out than I think we’d be well on the way to somewhat resolving the genre issue. I am clueless on how to do this however….
zach
January 16, 2011 @ 2:10 pm
didnt shelton do that already, i think its called hellbilly
Kyle
January 10, 2011 @ 2:41 pm
im always a bit hot and cold with shooter..but he’s doing something here
IceColdCountry
January 10, 2011 @ 2:44 pm
I like Shooter’s XM show. And he has a handful of really good country songs.
He lost me with the Black Ribbons deal. But he does try to do some innovative tricks, just a sound I like.
IceColdCountry
January 10, 2011 @ 2:46 pm
He lost me with the Black Ribbons deal. But he does try to do some innovative tricks, just a sound I like. “just NOT a sound I like.”
trying to work and read online a bit
BlueRibbonRadio
January 10, 2011 @ 2:53 pm
In theory I like the idea, but I don’t like the execution so far…and I hate the name “XXX” this isn’t a Vin Diesel movie.
Like you mentioned, It comes off half cocked. Why would I go to this when I have all the podcasts out there, SCM live, and even Pandora.
Big John Hamhock
January 11, 2011 @ 5:24 pm
Yup. Personally, I dig live365.com. There are some seriously great channels there regardless of what genre yer into. I particularly dig a channel called Moxie Radio.
Adam Sheets
January 10, 2011 @ 2:57 pm
Thanks for covering this, even if you don’t totally agree with it. I agree that there are still a few kinks to work out, but the reason for the varied artist list is to support all types of Southern AND rural sounds from throughout the country and a celebration of the places that have produced artists as varied as Sam Cooke and Pantera. It’s not necessarily a country or rock movement. These are the artists who are too country (or redneck) for the radio and the ones who don’t fit comfortably in the safety of any genre, even Americana. (And according to data, 85% of people still listen to the radio, so that is why we’re going after them).
Anyway, thanks for helping us get the word out about this. I’m sure you’ll agree, whether you sign the petition or not, that the artists on the lists deserve wider recognition. I ask everybody to also read my piece on No Depression for a more detailed description of why you should support the XXX movement.
The Triggerman
January 10, 2011 @ 4:40 pm
I hope you understand that the point of this article and the impending cluster of comments to follow is not to trash this idea. It was to inform people of what it is, and give my opinions in an attempt to be constructive. We need ideas like this, even if nothing comes of it, to get people thinking proactively.
KAK
January 11, 2011 @ 6:43 pm
I actually disagree about needing ideas like this. I think that all good things happen because of passion and love and “doing”…not because of someone commanding control of the helm of the ship and sticking their flag in some soil naming it one name or another.
If you are going to have a democracy, Trig, you need to include EVERYONE. Not just people who participate in this blog comment section. There are some people (Casey, Marc Littler, Keith Hillgrass, Jason Galaz, Chris Johnson, etc. etc….not to mention all of the artists who never comment on here or who don’t even have internet access regularly) who aren’t included in the voting process.
Otherwise, it is an Oligarchy…just like the US currently. I have no interest in participating in another thankyouverymuch…but then again, I doubt I would be asked to participate. I have no power, no musical talents, no clout…and I’m female…etc etc.
No one can agree on who belongs and who doesn’t…the only time folks will concur on who is in and who is out will be 20 years in the future.
God I’m old. I’ve been through this before….
Sandman
January 10, 2011 @ 3:07 pm
As I said in the forum, this comes across as a joke. Don’t get me wrong, I like the idea behind it but the website, the petition to no one, the list of artists, the name even seems half assed. Why is country radio going to suddenly get behind a brand called XXX? Mainstream rock radio may get behind it but conservative leaning pop country radio won’t. Another point, we don’t need another genre. Have you seen how bogged down heavy metal is with the tons of genres it has? I actually enjoy Shooter’s music, and I like that he’s trying SOMETHING to get this kind of music out there but as it is it comes across as a joke. The really funny thing though…I wouldn’t classify Shooter’s latest music as too country for rock or too rock for country. It’s industrial rock…nothing country about it except his lineage.
Adam Sheets
January 10, 2011 @ 3:10 pm
As for who we are petitioning, it’s anybody in the industry who will listen. Mostly, it is to band like-mined artists and fans together in support of the cause. Shooter has some other cool projects in the works- including a music festival- which will SHOW the XXX concept in action and prove to you that it works.
IceColdCountry
January 10, 2011 @ 3:29 pm
I am just a causal music fan, no ties to the industry, so I might be your target audience. I am sick of mainstream radio.
But you gotta re-think that name “XXX”, with all due respect. When asked by a family member, say parent or grandparent, “what type of music do you like?” or “what radio do you listen to.” I am not going to want to say “XXX”.
declared ungovernable
January 10, 2011 @ 3:35 pm
I concur ICC
The Triggerman
January 10, 2011 @ 3:39 pm
Country radio is not going to get behind this, and I will be extremely surprised if anyone in the industry does. Radio is not looking for new ideas, they’re looking for ways to save costs. And this has been going on for a long time, and is a solid, easily identifiable trend. So instead of trying to re-design old, tired infrastructure that is dying and can’t meet our needs, let’s use new technology to defeat the industry by being a step ahead. Radio and major labels used to have all the control. Now the control is starting to go back into the artists’ hands because technology has given them the ability to do it themselves. Let’s not covet what radio has, let’s start are own media networks where we call the shots. That is the idea behind SCM LIVE, even if it is a microcosm of what could happen on a grand scale. Let’s be a step ahead. While the industry and corporations try to figure out how to squeeze as much money as they can out of old models, let’s build new ones that are stronger, better, faster, and with more freedom.
Gillian
January 10, 2011 @ 10:09 pm
Here here! This might be my favoritest article yet. THIS is what I”™ve been waiting for and working on. I grew up on music that was not mine. I always thought I was born a generation too late. Why wasn”™t I one of the girls to give Jim Morrison a place to crash? A few years ago I discovered Hank III (who is 4 months younger than me) and his music introduced me to all this. I”™m into so many fantastic bands now, I don”™t even care that they”™re not on craptacular radio. We have you. Granted, a microcosm of what could/should/will be. As a fan of music and a New Yorker, I”™ve worked in many facets of the pop culture machine. My resume is a who”™s who of an industry that needs to die. I”™ve been there. I was in those meetings. I can be generic because they”™re all the same. Once you match a formula to your product, you mass produce it, blast it out through pr while the sales charges for the privilege of ingesting the slop.
As a fan, I enjoy all the music and camaraderie that our community is. As a businesswoman, I see a good product based on actual talent. We are a step ahead. You”™ve finger pecked your way into being one of our benevolent dictator/loveable huggable leaders. I”™m in.
Moonshine Country? I like it. As said above and below, there is no way I”™m telling anyone I listen to XXX music. Not happening.
KAK
January 11, 2011 @ 4:34 pm
Ah sweetie, I hear ya. But I don’t see why people have to pigeonhole anything. Why give any genre a new name if it doesn’t evolve naturally? I have nothing invested in a title if it excludes something I like.
I’m going out on a limb and saying something that no one wants to hear…it seems to me that “events” or “happenings” are the thing that make a real music movement occur. I draw mostly from punk and hardcore for this. If you watch American Hardcore (which has its problems of course) you see that something local and heartfelt was happening all over the US simultaneously…it evolved…it was grassroots…it had no internet presence…it had no official organizers. There were venues, bands, fans, and photographers. Eventually there were some authors that addressed some of the concerns of the “members” but it wasn’t organized with intention by a source like an online radio show or an internet blogsite.
Here’s what I see: I see Deep Blues Festival…I see Casey Weber’s deck…I see Muddy Roots…I see Austin and Nashville and other cities with vibrant “scenes”…where bands always try to hit when touring the US. I see a huge grassroots podcasting community and I see networking on sites like Facebook and Myspace and Saving Country Music where people learn about these podcasts.
If we try to make something something before it happens organically, it will end up being a wrestling match to see who makes a buck. That’s capitalism at play and I’ve been a spectator at that game too long to not see it a mile off.
Just a thought or two or three….
Keep it rocking Brooklyn girl!
KAK
January 11, 2011 @ 4:46 pm
I left a lot of people out of that comment…it was unintentional. I have XM radio in my car, but a lot of the folks I know can’t afford it. I wasn’t intending to slight Shooter or anyone else on Outlaw Country Radio.
Baron Lane
January 10, 2011 @ 3:26 pm
well said. My beef has never been garnering exposure to great music, hell that’s why I started a blog in the first place, but that pushing for some collective umbrella to place them under and the appeal to a known hostile environment (radio) comes off as a fools errand.
Just because Shooter Jennings bristles at the idea of categorization doesn’t mean labels don’t help those that want to discover new (but familiar) kinds of music.
The Triggerman
January 10, 2011 @ 3:42 pm
Yes Shooter Bristles at labels, but he’s created two in as many months “Black Country Rock” and “XXX.” I know XXX is supposed to be sort of an anti-genre, but then why give it a name at all?
Adam Sheets
January 10, 2011 @ 4:21 pm
Black Country Rock is a record label, not a genre label.
The Triggerman
January 10, 2011 @ 4:36 pm
It’s still a label, and for one not wanting to be labeled by names, he’s got more handles than a chester drawers.
Chris Lewis
January 10, 2011 @ 4:01 pm
Am I wrong but wasn’t this sorta why they created the “Americana” genre that has been picking up steam as a genre in the last couple years. From my understanding it’s a collection of all “roots music” that was based on the traditions of country music. Wasn’t this to encompass all folk, bluegrass, alt. country, blues under one format?
So why can’t all these artists be conglomerated into this one single format since it seems to already have a foothold and it’s own awards? This seems to be the same thing XXX is aiming for. I would love to have a radio station or awards show that has different segments/awards for bluegrass, country blues, traditional country, modern country, southern rock, hick-hop, pop country. I understand it’s hard to categorize a band as one certain genre, but each song they create could be categorized under one of these categories.
I understand radio is dead but so far there is not one source for everyone to go to. SavingCountryMusic.com is one of those sources but I feel there has to be one source that is widely known for everyone in world or how else would you bring people together through music.
Adam Sheets
January 10, 2011 @ 4:19 pm
The problem with Americana and the reason these artists do not fit into that format is that Americana is aimed at white, urban, middle-class liberals who listen to NPR.
The Triggerman
January 10, 2011 @ 6:49 pm
Agreed.
The Triggerman
January 10, 2011 @ 4:22 pm
Americana has been able to create tremendous infrastructure for its artists over the past few years with awards shows and conferences, and working with festivals, etc., and they don’t have their own widespread radio format, unless maybe you want to count NPR. So much of this seems to be derived from Shooter being pissed off that radio won’t play his songs. I’m pissed off that radio won’t play good music too, but instead of focusing on the problem, focus on proactive, realistic solutions. Technology has solved many problems for artists unwilling to compromise their ethics for success, and it will solve this one too, if we put our efforts in that direction.
Adam Sheets
January 10, 2011 @ 4:34 pm
For the record, Americana is definitely a radio format. http://www.americanaradio.org/ama/displaychart_beforetracks.asp?mode=lw&dtkey=
The Triggerman
January 11, 2011 @ 9:37 am
Unless its a radio format that Clear Channel recognizes as one with mass market appeal that can have a nationalized format, then it is not, or won’t be for long.
Tmac
January 10, 2011 @ 4:06 pm
To quote Dale Watson “to each his own but it ain’t country”. Shooter the flip flipper is worthless. If we got THIS Shooter from the get-go then it may have some merit. You’re talking about a guy who had a couple of country albums then wait…all of a sudden HE’S not country. Half that stuff that they play on Sirius Outlaw Country is southern rock that belongs in the 70s. We’re blessed to have Dale, Billy Joe, & James Hand etc. That’s country to me folks. I’m nobody, just my opinion.
Adam Sheets
January 10, 2011 @ 4:20 pm
I love it when people say Shooter isn’t country, yet give Hank 3 a pass for the AssJack thing. Not to mention that Hank was fronting a hardcore band before being forced to cash in on his family name with country music.
The Triggerman
January 10, 2011 @ 4:34 pm
Hank III makes a concerted effort to keep his country and rock projects separated. He has country albums, and rock albums, the country set, and the rock sets. With Shooter the lines are much more blurred. I’m not saying this is wrong, but comparing the two is not really fair.
Sans the ridiculous Stephen King stuff on Black Ribbons, I think it is a decent album. But nothing about it is country.
Adam Sheets
January 10, 2011 @ 4:38 pm
I see your point, but still Shooter is also keeping these projects separated. He didn’t release Black Ribbons with the .357s. He released it with Hierophant. And I would agree that there isn’t much country on the album, although there are some country and southern rock elements on certain tracks.
Jahshie P.
January 10, 2011 @ 6:37 pm
But, when Shooter performs live, it is Heirophant and he performs songs from the two genres. So, you can’t say Heirophant and the .357’s are two separate bands. The only difference is the addition of a keyboard player and a new guitarist (maybe the third player since Leroy?)
Chris Lewis
January 10, 2011 @ 4:36 pm
I consider Shooter to be country just as Hank III. The only thing that bothers me about Shooter is that I’ve read somewhere that he was trying to distance himself from country music altogether and will not play any of his old “country” songs that made him popular at his shows anymore and will only play his wierd rock music from now on. Maybe someone can verify this for me that this is true.
I’ll admit I hated Shooter’s new album. I just don’t get it. I like southern rock, rock, metal, but that all around sucked in my opinion. But I feel the same as Hank III for his metal side. I respect him to do his thing even though that side doesn’t appeal to me but at least his shows give you both genres.
I went to see Hank III years ago and I didn’t know anything about him at the time not even his music but thought I’d check him out because of his dad and granddad. I was blown away. I got what he was accomplishing by bringing together the rock/metal/punk kids with the country/redneck kids and it worked. I saw the whole thing as the same thing Willie and Waylon did in the 70’s with the hippies and cowboys.
That helps me understand why today alot alt. country bands seem to be coming from the metal/punk genre.
Adam Sheets
January 10, 2011 @ 4:39 pm
Definitely not true. I last saw Shooter live in September and he played a good mix of the “Black Ribbons” tracks, his older country stuff, and a few of his dad’s songs.
IceColdCountry
January 10, 2011 @ 4:53 pm
I know you can’t speak for Shooter, but do you have any thoughts on the short tour he did that was billed as “Waylon Live” on the heels of the Walon Forever album with the .357’s.
The album was good, but the show (told to me by good friends) – Shooter tore through the songs on the album as if he just popped in the CD. Then the remainder of the show was Black Ribbions music. Kind of a bait and switch, and he can say what he wants about it, but pretty hard to not see through that ploy.
Adam Sheets
January 10, 2011 @ 4:57 pm
IceColdCountry, I didn’t go to any of those shows and didn’t even know Shooter personally at that time. So I can’t comment on that.
Denise
January 10, 2011 @ 6:25 pm
Really? You can point out that, in essence, to someone who isn’t familiar with Hank III and his journey with music. Hank III couldn’t deny his family rank if he tried anyhow. Shooter plays Waylon’s music, but that’s not the same? Shooter took the high road, trying diligently to carve his own path, but so has III.
Adam Sheets
January 10, 2011 @ 7:40 pm
I agree, which is why I’m saying you can’t accuse Shooter of not being country simply because of Hierophant without making the same accusation about Hank III.
Owen
January 12, 2011 @ 12:06 am
Shelton has 5 country records out, vs. one Assjack record. He was making country music, and being one of the only people in the last twenty years to be a part of the Nashville system, and do shit his own way, and fight tooth and nail to do so. Shelton worked his dick off for years, and was very hands on in creating a lot of the ‘scene’ that we have today. He used his namesake, but he certainly used it for a great cause. While he was doing that, Shooter Jennings was failing at becoming a glam rocker out in L.A..
So Shooter came along, and put out two ho hum country rock records, which both relied real heavily on his namesake, and then after a couple of years, turned his back on the whole country thing.
The two guys are apples and oranges. There are a lot of folks in vans, clubs, and motel rooms around the globe right now who would gladly tell you how much of what they are is owed to Shelton. You’d be pretty hard pressed to find anything similar to say about Shooter.
Adam Sheets
January 12, 2011 @ 7:47 am
Owen, how exactly did Shooter “turn his back on country?” Did you feel the same way when the Assjack record came out? Did Waylon and Willie also turn their backs on country by refusing to fit in?
And, most importantly, have you heard Shooter’s two most recent songs, “Manifesto #3,” and his duet with Folk Uke called “I Miss My Boyfriend.” Both EASILY country.
IceColdCountry
January 12, 2011 @ 8:01 am
I am not a industry insider, but I am wondering about the comment Owen made stating Hank III fought tooth and nail?
Didn’t Hank (Shelton), sign a contract with Curb, and then at some point became disgruntled? I am not sure anyone can answer, but Shelton, on why he was disgruntled, but what exactly did he fight tooth and nail for and what exactly did he change in the music industry?
I am not arguing his sound and mixing of metal and country aren’t contributions, but for argument sake, on Shelton’s watch, if you will, pop country exploded!
And to my knowledge, Shelton played out his contract to Curb. He didn’t show anyone a new way to get out of a contract, did he? And to my knowledge, Curb produced/released records as they saw fit for Shelton. The music may have been unique and all Shelton, but Curb was still calling most of the shots.
Again, I am limited in my knowledge of the inside story on this, and that may be called out, with some missing facts.
I do like Shelton’s country stuff, it is top notch, and clearly his dedicated fans are going to defend him 100%. However, in different ways, I think Shelton and Shooter are true to country, but do have their own agendas too, so as Adam has been defending Shooter, you can’t give Shelton a free pass.
Denise
January 12, 2011 @ 8:14 am
The difference Adam is in the presentation. Go to Shelton’s shows, and it’s the country THEN AssJack, and he is distinct and right on in them both. That’s why it works so well. Shelton has always respected the music. Period.
The Triggerman
January 12, 2011 @ 11:01 am
All this Shooter vs. Shelton is a tired argument that will not get resolved here, and at this point is irrelevant. Last I heard Hank III said he was over all of it, and Shooter was never in it to begin with so let’s all focus on the bigger picture.
I do think that it illustrates that both Shooter and Hank III are polarizing figures, and if their mug is at the tip top of the XXX poster, it could hold it back.
Spens
January 10, 2011 @ 4:13 pm
I read the article and then checked out the website. I guess my biggest problem is the logo. What about Whitey Morgan is “too rock”? Or DAC for than matter.
Basically, I really like the idea. There are a couple of problems with it. One is the name. If someone asks me what I listen to am I going to say “XXX”? I automatically thought of porn when I saw this as well. I also think they need to just start something that plays what we all listen to, and not make it so narrow. I love the south, but it has nothing to do with real country today. I also don’t like that Pantera and Arson Anthem are included in there. Both great bands, but both are out of place.
Also, i’m drunk, so this probablly doesnt make any sense to the rest of y’all.
Spens
January 10, 2011 @ 4:20 pm
Also, here’s a picture of ol’ Shooter in his rock outfit, “Stargunn”
Spens
January 10, 2011 @ 4:21 pm
http://media.photobucket.com/image/stargunn/kylecor42/Free%2520Hank%2520III/1451012805_l.jpg
Big John Hamhock
January 11, 2011 @ 5:32 pm
EEK!!! 🙂
Ga. Outlaw
January 10, 2011 @ 4:20 pm
I first heard about this about a week ago on facebook. I was so happy somebody was doing something I signed the petition without much thought. It was at that point I started thinking…
1) While I like a lot of people on the artist list there are quite a few I don’t like & quite a few that need to be added.
2) Is Shooter serious or is this just his new project to stay in the news?
3) It’s been aparent for a while that a civil war is brewing in country music, but concidering most of the artist left off the list are the main artist talked about here, will that civil war change from pop contry vs. underground country to XXX Vs. savingcountrymusic.com?
4) If the civil war becomes XXX Vs. savingcountrymusic.com which side am I on? There are many artist on each side I like & don’t like, but what about the artist neither side are focused on? The artist who are too underground for pop country to care about & too well known for sites like this to care about. I’m talking about Robert Earl Keen, Guy Clark, Steve Earle, Charlie Robison…etc. Everyone says underground country needs leaders. I say why not the vetrerins of underground country. I’m sure some of them would be willing to lead if given the chance.
The Triggerman
January 10, 2011 @ 4:30 pm
Well first off I am not fighting against XXX right now, and I wouldn’t in the future. Whenever there is infighting, I try to do the best I can to stay out of it and focus on promoting the music.
And say what you want about Shooter and/or his music, I don’t think this is about his ego per se. I think he is truly pissed that his music, and the music he likes gets no love on radio, and I agree with him. The difference is where to focus our energy on what to do about it.
Ga. Outlaw
January 10, 2011 @ 5:27 pm
I don’t think you would instagte the infighting, but there are plenty of people on this site that seem like they try to every conversation plus you’ve got the Shooter fans who got mad at you for saying he was moving away from country. As fas as Shooter him self, I’m sure he’s taking it serious right now, but after after making a name for him self in rock music with Stargunn he gave up on that to try country music. After 3 albums he gave up on that to do the Hirophant thing. I just wonder how long he will take XXX serious before he moves on to something else. As far as the band includded, Do you included anyone who says there a country music outcast or do you come up with a board of directors of sorts to say okay will include him but not him & if you go with the board of directors who are the members?
Adam Sheets
January 10, 2011 @ 5:33 pm
To answer your question, I think Shooter said it best on his Twitter page earlier today: “I’m not the gatekeeper of XXX – we all are! Bands on list are only there to give an idea of what we’re talking about. If you feel like your band fits the bill, then it does! XXX is for us all!”
The Triggerman
January 10, 2011 @ 6:54 pm
Wow, well lets just open the barn doors wide and let everyone in! Here comes Josh Thompson, Eric Church, and Gretchen Wilson and all their douchebag fans to carpetbag off of XXX like they did with Outlaw country.
If someone who have asked me for my thoughts before this launched, the FIRST think I would have said is “NO LISTS. let’s make sure this puppy flies before we start making a passenger list.” A few core names so people got the flavor of what was going on is all that would have been needed. Nothing good could come from going into more detail at this point.
Ga. Outlaw
January 10, 2011 @ 7:07 pm
Thats the point I wanted to make Triggerman. If there is an open door policy & antone who says there XXX is then you will end up with the civil war I spoke of. If Jamey Johnson decides he’s XXX then half the people on this site will turn against XXX. If too many artist say we still want to be considerd country & don’t want to change what we’re known as then the fans will not be apart either.
IceColdCountry
January 10, 2011 @ 8:54 pm
I am a bit confused with all the Jamey Johnson comments on this page throughout articles. Those that don’t like him, seem to imply that Jamey Johnson claimed to be this or that (outlaw, savior, etc.)
But from the supporters, and information about him out there, which is limited, Jamey Johnson never has claimed to be anything but someone wanting to do his own music.
So this comment that “if Jamey Johnson says he is XXX” I don’t know that you would get an artist like him asking to be part of XXX. You might find that he gets support from XXX since Shooter and he appear to be friends.
I am not trying to turn this article into a Jamey Johnson spread as I have seen several from the past that seemed to get nowhere. Just a lot of replies seem to take a shot at the guy for unnecessary reasons. I applaud the guy for being successful with his style of music amongst the popular country stars.
I think someone mentioned that Jamey might not be the guy to change it all, but he might be the guy before the guy. Just to shake it up a bit before the big game changer. Perhaps this XXX isn’t the answer to change it all, but as many have pointed out, at least Shooter is trying to do something.
Ga. Outlaw
January 10, 2011 @ 10:43 pm
I’m using Jamey Johnson as an example. You could put any artist who has a polerizing efect on the underground country fans. Any artist like that, that becomes apart of XXX could start infighting over what is & what isin’t XXX. That’s all I’m saying.
ArkansasOutlaw
January 10, 2011 @ 9:18 pm
I know where you’re coming from on the whole “Not trying create wars inside our own group”. Thats completely understandable. Thats very productive on your part. That is one of the reasons why I look up to you Triggerman. You care more about the music than anything else.
But, I am not you, and I have to disagree with you. I stand behind on what I said on my first comment. You were the first, at least that I know of, and I stand behind your ambition and your intelligence on the subject. You should be pushing this thru.
Jahshie P.
January 10, 2011 @ 4:20 pm
never heard of it. Thanks for the heads up Mr. Trig. It seems very one-sided with the bands as you said, which is strange, cause Shooter has always supported the underground. I should send him some LFH. Haha.
Jahshie P.
January 10, 2011 @ 4:24 pm
Nevermind, there are a lot of underground bands here. Josephus? LLC? Not bad. I am glad his feud with III is over.
crook
January 11, 2011 @ 12:25 pm
if time shows it serves the underground bands then i’ll be with it,if it dont then its just more bullshit fuckin white noise distracting from music i give a fuck about. i cant really get my head around all this genre-naming stuff but if it helps lesser known bands get wider audience which in turn helps support them so they can continue to make good music and tour then its good. outlaw radio does this and so does this site. support artists you’re into, see them live and buy their shit. and for the record brother, i dig LFH helluva lot more than shooter.
IceColdCountry
January 10, 2011 @ 4:39 pm
Maybe they should have a “too country for country” section as well.
Sometimes a confused fan here, but I have seen discussions on here that say just because there is an additiona of a fiddle or dobro to a pop song doesn’t make it country.
I would like to say- with respects to all- just because you add a stand up bass or acoustic to metal doesn’t make it country.
Adam Sheets
January 10, 2011 @ 4:41 pm
That’s what it’s about. Too “country” for country and rock. Whether meaning country as a music genre or country as lifestyle. This is about the Southern and rural artists who are being ignored by the masses who would love them if they only had a chance to hear them.
Scott
January 10, 2011 @ 5:09 pm
I like the idea.
Carla
January 10, 2011 @ 9:40 pm
“Too rock for country, and too country for rock.” Erm, isn’t that already a genre? ‘Country Rock’ I believe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_rock
Sandman
January 10, 2011 @ 6:09 pm
Adam, I see your point behind it and I recognize that it is early in the concept and execution of it all so lets just say I’m on the fence and we’ll see where it goes before I judge further. If I could tweak anything it would be to not include the extreme southern metal acts like Pantera, Weedeater and even Arson Anthem…..there is no country/rock line straddling about these acts. These acts have their own thing in metal and wouldn’t benefit from being included in XXX. Plus you’re missing some GA based sludge bands like Kylesa, Baroness and Black Tusk that would fit with your current grouping.
Denise
January 10, 2011 @ 6:16 pm
The name is whack but it’s too late now. He’s got to go with it. It just seems to be grasping at straws. I say take Outlaw Radio all the way, with corporate funding and national exposure and you have what XXX is trying to do.
JahshieP
January 11, 2011 @ 2:21 pm
What a dream that would be Denise! If I had the backing of someone of Shooter’s status, I am sure we could. If only he enjoyed my show as much as his bassist does.
Denise
January 11, 2011 @ 7:55 pm
Well that dream should come true! Maybe Shooter and his bassist should get on the same page. 🙂
Axl Pabst
January 10, 2011 @ 6:28 pm
What’s in a name, right?
Well, I think what a lot of people here are trying to say, is that if you’re going through the trouble of trying to give something a name, then you are conceding to the fact that labels and names are in fact, important. Which is fine, but naming a music genre which consists of already existing artists isn’t like naming a child, fresh and bright eyed, entering the world. If it works, you have the unique opportunity to give it a name that really represents it as a whole, and if nothing else, provides a forum for fans to connect and discover like never before, but it really has to represent who these people already think they are. I don’t think “XXX” will do that.
Call me crazy, but why not just label the genre, “Moonshine.” Think about the connotations it expresses.
“Moonshine, a genre of music distilled from homegrown ingredients, with more personality than bulk barreled whiskey and a big “fuck you” to the tax-man. Not aged for mellow mass consumption or filtered through the Nashville corporate pipeline, it arrives in box full of rattling glass jars, and flows straight down your gullet into the speakeasy in your heart.”
Denise
January 10, 2011 @ 6:34 pm
You got the Shine?! Moonshine music would not appeal to the masses. But neither would XXX for that matter. What is the motivation? Real music for real people.
Axl Pabst
January 10, 2011 @ 6:44 pm
Are we trying to drag in the masses or unite those that support these artists already? I was under the impression that the goal was the latter. The masses are the masses, because they are the masses. They want things prepackaged and don’t want to invest emotion on anything but themselves. Fuck ’em.
I can’t speak for any region but my own, the midwest (northern Wisconsin, to be specific), but I think the Moonshine label would go over quite well here, judging from the people I meet at alt-country shows, both those that come around and the local boys.
Denise
January 10, 2011 @ 7:12 pm
Well there’s masses and then there’s masses. If you unite the ones that already support it, then that would be a mass. You can see where this XXX is going, like Triggeman said, opening the door and such. If you’re talking remote and underground, then yes moonshine music would fit the bill. Being from the midwest myself, always like to hear a good proposal!
Big John Hamhock
January 11, 2011 @ 5:40 pm
Gotta say, I dig the hell outta the Moonshine idea. Mmm… I’m thirsty all of a sudden… But I digress. I think a name (if one’s really needed, and I suppose it is) like Moonshine would work far better than XXX, mainly due to the porn and/or Vin Diesel connotations, especially with Axl’s kickass definition. Hat’s off to ya, sir. Hope ya don’t mind if I steal it. 🙂
The Triggerman
January 10, 2011 @ 6:57 pm
Great stuff Axl!
Axl Pabst
January 10, 2011 @ 7:14 pm
“Pop-Country is the prohibition of creativity, and the Gangsters in Nashville are the only one’s getting rich. Help repeal the 18th again and drink some musical moonshine.”
This shit could go on all day…
Denise
January 10, 2011 @ 7:22 pm
Not a far off depiction! Only I prefer sippin’ my moonshine, so’s I can enjoy the experience.
Axl Pabst
January 10, 2011 @ 7:25 pm
The only “white lightning” type moonshine I’ve had was from my tattoo artist, and I wouldn’t be too interested in sippin’ it on the rocks. I know a guy that distills some great homebrew bourbon though, and that’s some good tasting stuff!
the deserter
January 10, 2011 @ 10:11 pm
you are one literate motherfucker
ArkansasOutlaw
January 10, 2011 @ 8:55 pm
Excuse me Triggerman for not reading the 58 comments before me. So, if there is any repetition to what I say; I apologize.
I completely understand where you come from on your negativity on the movement. I particularly do not like the wide spectrum of artists and music that is covered under XXX. You are absolutely right; someone cannot put the Avett Brothers under the same tent as T Model Ford. There have to be more than three different genres of music in that list of musicians. Also, you’re 100 percent correct; who says Whitey Morgan and the 78s, or Wayne the Train aren’t REAL COUNTRY!? In fact, I just felt an overwhelming angry emotion come over me when I even thought of the idea that those two are not labeled as COUNTRY. I could not give two shits about this movement when it comes to putting artists like those two in his XXX genre.
Triggerman you are the person who came up with the first movement towards these underground artists. You were one of the first to step up and say “Hey these artists are not the same as what you normally hear”. You are the first person to explore that territory. In fact, if it were not for your website, and your presence in this world, I would not know a single artist on that XXX list.
So, my hat is tipped to you sir. You are the person I will stand behind until the finish Triggerman. You have put so much more effort into these outcast artists. I will not be signing this petition. It is a great idea, but too bad it was first thought of by the author of SAVINGCOUNTRYMUSIC.COM ! Oh yeah! Did we completely forget that you were saving country? Fuck no! Yeah you may not be a big artist. Yeah you may think that you do not have much momentum to push this movement forward. But you know what Triggerman? You’ve come a long way. You can made this happen yourself. We do not need to give Shooter (who I AM a fan of) credit for creating a genre for these artists. We must give you credit.
Triggerman, you create a petition. You create a list. Hell create several lists with several different genres, I don’t give a fuck how you set it up. You have showed that you have a wide knowledge of musical knowledge. And I look up to you, along with many others. You sir are my leader. And I hope you will be OUR leader until you die.
The Triggerman
January 10, 2011 @ 9:35 pm
Thanks so much for the kind words Arkansas, it means a lot man. I don’t have any intentions at the moment to start any new lists or genres. But I do know that if I did, the first thing I would do is petition my readership for suggestions, because that is where the real knowledge gets dropped around here (see Axl Pabst’s posts above) That’s what I did with Anti-Country, and found there would be too much confusion over the name. One of the reasons you might think I am so knowledgeable is because I know I’m stupid, and am not afraid to talk to people and solicit for outside help to make sure I get it right. Nobody can expect to know every band, every genre. That is what I think the biggest mistake with XXX was. Maybe they fight through it and it is successful, but more preparation and insight from others would have helped significantly in my opinion.
I also have to say, I may be the loudest voice, but Blake at the IBWIP podcast, and Darren from Farmageddon Records, who used to be a local promoter in Montana, were two people trying to promote this music before I was.
ArkansasOutlaw
January 10, 2011 @ 10:05 pm
Aha! Excuse me. I completely forgot about IBWIP, Farmageddon Records, and the viewers of savingcountrymusic. I apologize for not giving them any credit. My hat is tipped to all of you. And I hope one day all of this will be sorted out better than what it is.
Aran
January 11, 2011 @ 9:47 pm
Being from Montana I can say that it was Darren who first turned me on to this scene by bringing J.B. Beverley & the Wayward Drifters, .357 String Band, Rachel Brooke and others. Hats of to Darren and Farmageddon!
KAK
January 12, 2011 @ 8:05 am
I think a chart of influences would actually be a really interesting visual tool. One of those org charts or graphic images so easy to create in a word processing program? I’d love to see record labels, promoters, venues, artists, websites, podcasts, booking agents, festival organizers…all mapped out. Everyone could argue for about 10 years about who is not on there or who shouldn’t be on there…but it would be great to have a visual….even map it out geographically as well…to see where people live and how the geography plays into things.
Can you do that on here? A kind of Wiki flow chart?
Ryan roberts
January 10, 2011 @ 9:12 pm
I like the idea , but do believe to make this work you will need some of the mainstream involved. Get like a Jamey Johnson or Gary allan or dierks bentley artist that are country and have that big time following but may not always get played on radio.and fair is fair but I do believe colt ford Brantley Gilbert and the neotraditional artists should be branded under this deal . Keep my I do know that last sentence may not be favorites by others on this site but fair is fair if your gonna have genre that includes “rejects” so to speak that the big executives don’t wanna Play then you have to include the above to be fair with it
The Triggerman
January 11, 2011 @ 9:42 am
But why would they want to jump genres? They already have one and get the airplay XXX is coveting.
Ryan roberts
January 11, 2011 @ 3:32 pm
Thinking more cross genre from a marketing standPoint To get people to listen in ,but come to think of it isn’t that why this site is here and a new genre is being discussed .kind of a double edge sword in my view
Ga. Outlaw
January 10, 2011 @ 10:54 pm
I’ve been thinking about this name thing for awile & I’ve come up with something. All this music you want to put under one banner XXX all comes from the same originating genra that as far as the main stream is concerned is a dead genra. I say simply call it Folk Music.
IceColdCountry
January 11, 2011 @ 9:09 am
I was kind of thinking the same thing. Some on this site might disagree, but there is some good country coming out through a few mainstream artists that aren’t getting much big market radio play.
Dierks is a great example. His recent bluegrass album is good. “Up On the Ridge” was the only song that really got radio play. There are several other tunes on that album with McCoury, Kristofferson.
I would love to see him team up with an underground bluegrass/string band and put something together.
I agree that this XXX idea, to make any noise with the mainstream (as I assume that is the reason behind it, otherwise why do we care about it, everyone seems to be finding the music they like now days anyway) that XXX will need a few big name, mainstream artists.
Tweets that mention This New Shooter Jennings’ “XXX†Genre « Saving Country Music -- Topsy.com
January 11, 2011 @ 12:18 am
[…] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Holly Norman, The Triggerman. The Triggerman said: My Opinion on this new Shooter Jennings”™ “XXX” country-rock genre https://savingcountrymusic.com/this-new-shooter-jennings-xxx-genre […]
Rev.Nix
January 11, 2011 @ 6:23 am
I think Trigger has a point….we are all here to help save country music not rename it. We should really start pushing back to save what Country is to us. Renaming is kind of like giving up. Xxx don’t seem like it will work FCC is cool with calling it xxx I don’t buy that…they will not allow stations to promote xxx folks will not get it. Did we forget about all the prudes that run the fcc. I can see it now …”Your listening to K92 fm home of xxx music” Yeah that will work . I do understand why but a take back is what we really need.
jeremy
January 11, 2011 @ 6:24 am
I was waiting for your reaction to this Trig when I first saw about it on the twitter stuff between Shooter, Isbell and Rhett Miller—that’s how I first heard of it.
Labels are tough. If you don’t give one to yourself, someone is going to give one to you. The two record labels we’ve had both labeled us with a genre–it is their way of categorizing us for marketing purposes which is totally necessary.
In the past, I was offended to see what albums were listed in alt-country and which albums were listed in country on commercial websites such as e-music and itunes. Its weird.
At times, when playing shows people would come up and say “I don’t like country, but I sure do like you guys.”….can you feel my eyes roll back in my head when hearing that?? So, rather than having to explain to people what we were when we said “country” we started going with “honky tonk” as a genre. It was the genre we put on ourselves for a bit, and it sorta fit. I don’t really know how to define it now, the band is a constant evolution, as any band should be–and the “country” term still is a bit jaded by radio and marketing, so its still hard to use.
I totally appreciate Shooter and Adam’s work here, trying to go for something. Trying to make a stand.
I’ve said it before, the worse it gets, the closer we are to seeing things improve. For every person that hates something there’s someone who loves it for just that reason, and vice versa. Its not necessarily that one thing needs to be less popular, in some sense–the more popular that something becomes, the more likely its opposite will get a ton of attention as a straight up counterpoint.
Think of it like this—for every time a rap “country” song, or as one friend defines a lot of pop country as “cheerleader” music, that means that somebody goes out there and rails against it and finds something like Wayne Hancock to ease the pain in their ears.
I think the real problem I’ve had for a long time personally is the blurring of lines. The above theory doesn’t work when those lines become crossed and messages become mixed. If your looking for something different from what your hearing on the radio, but the artists and labels have blurred that line for the purpose of mass marketing it gets confusing for the random fan who doesn’t have a ton of time to research it. It becomes difficult for new potential fans to find what they don’t even know they are looking for, just that they are looking for something.
As a kid whose only responsibility was to pay for my gas and cigarettes and could afford to learn more about music financially, I used to go into Wherehouse Records in Ann Arbor, go to a section and buy a tape of a band I didn’t know—sometimes did it off artwork, sometimes did it off band or album name–but, always went for whatever genre I was feeling at that moment so I knew I’d give it a chance. Notice I said tape—this was long before you could preview songs on Itunes or youtube—or anything like that. Listening stations in stores hadn’t even really started yet. Sometimes I got lucky and found something I loved, when I did I shared it with all my friends. As I got more responsibilities such as rent and food, this was no longer possible.
Had I gone into country section one day hoping to hear something “real” and come out with some of the stuff you hear on the radio now—it woulda been years before I went back to the country genre.
That being said–there was barely a country genre/section there in those days. So, there’s something to be said for that as well. At least in these times, I would have had about 10% chance of finding something I like, rather than there being nothing available.
Lets see how this develops. The leadership you’ve been longing/asking for seems to be developing. Some are gonna dig it–some aren’t. Lets give it a chance and see what happens. Times are changing, you can taste it.
Kay
January 11, 2011 @ 7:31 am
Jeremy,
You’ve just explained why I pretty much gave up on all music for a few years, except for LIVE, mostly outdoor concerts.
Yesterday I was driving and scanning the stations for something listenable and came across what I thought was heavy metal, serious heavy metal! It was one of the local “country” stations. !!!
The blurring of genres has become so confusing. I think when Amer Id didn’t know what to do with certain people, they called them country and marketed it to the masses and continued with the Disney/Brittany Spears formula which was working well and then Nashville said, hell yah! Cha Ching!
If Shooter can make this work and attract good artists, then more power to him. Like you said: “Labels are tough. If you don”™t give one to yourself, someone is going to give one to you.”
Kay
January 11, 2011 @ 7:34 am
Replying here to clarify myself…….I think keeping the country label is important but it has become so watered down that maybe a new label with solid hard core real country would bring it back, so to speak, and other pop types would finally have to admit they are pop and get the heck out of “country.”
Rev.Nix
January 11, 2011 @ 10:23 am
Thats what I’m saying. This “IS” Saving Country Music right?
The Triggerman
January 11, 2011 @ 9:54 am
Can’t disagree with any of this Jeremy. My points of contention have to do with execution and implementation. LOVE the idea, but the whole thing seems so incongruent and sloppy. No offense intended to whoever made the website, but it looks like it was done by a high schooler. They have a “logo” which is simply a black and white illustration of a moonshine bottle, but I couldn’t even include the image here because its only offered in two image formats that are not compliant with most websites. You don’t make an album without soliciting for outside opinions from friends/other artists, but that is what they did here, and I fear it will doom any prospects. And Shooter is such a polarizing character, this is not going to help. Jason Isbell is pretty polarizing himself.
One thing I do like is that they are soliciting support from artists, which when I first proposed my Anti-Country idea, I saw as a necessary step. But we’ll see how far verbal commitments go when the rubber starts meeting the road.
After having slept on this another night, this idea looks a little more dangerous to me. Shooter saying anyone wants to be involved, can be involved, and the whole confusion by adding traditionally country and traditionally metal bands to their lists is not helping. Like someone said before, Shooter’s career has been all over the map, and I’m afraid he will take that same instability to this.
Duluke
January 11, 2011 @ 10:03 am
I thought I had gone to the wrong website at first. It immediately reminded me of a list I recently saw displaying some of the oldest sites on the internet. Maybe they’re going for the “so bad it’s good” design.
Duluke
January 11, 2011 @ 8:06 am
Why give up on Country Music? That’s what the XXX list looks like to me. Look at the “Those Who Came Before” section. I get pumped up just reading the names and thinking about their music, including some albums that came out last year! Came before us? Willie’s “Country Music” and Merle’s “I Am What I Am” were two of my favorite albums of 2010, and Dwight Yoakam has got to have something good coming soon.
But everyone on that list did or has been doing their thing for a long time, so I’ll give that to them. Where are the newer country music artists on the list? Where are Lucky Tubb, Joey Allcorn, Jason Boland and Caleb Klauder, just to name a few?
“XXX includes ALL southern artists that have fallen between the cracks of COUNTRY and ROCK” Why just southern and where’s the country? This is all fine though because country already is a bonafide music genre. I know what it is, you know what it is, Marty Stuart knows what it is, and it doesn’t matter what B105 FM tells you it is.
jeremy
January 11, 2011 @ 8:09 am
Inherit problem with making lists—someone always gets left off. Its unavoidable. And if you don’t make it exclusionary—then why is there a list?? Its a no-win situation.
Duluke
January 11, 2011 @ 8:19 am
It seems like more than just a few artists getting left off. With a couple of exceptions, it almost looks like an entire type of music was left off. Like I said though, this if fine. Country is country, it doesn’t need to be XXX.
The Triggerman
January 11, 2011 @ 9:55 am
Or someone reads a name on the list that they hate for one reason or another, and discount the whole thing. Like Shooter Jennings or Hank III, two EXTREMELY polarizing artists.
IceColdCountry
January 11, 2011 @ 9:27 am
to Duluke–
“I know what it is, you know what it is, Marty Stuart knows what it is, and it doesn”™t matter what B105 FM tells you it is.”
Best point I have read! Right now, for the past say 10+ years, B105 has said “country” is Kenny Chesney and Taylor Swift. Guess what, B105 might become a hiphop station in the next 10yrs. because that is what will bring in the advertising dollars. Or maybe in a few years you will here B105 say “That was Whitey Morgan, on your home for real country”
Whoever’s “mass” audience can bring in advertising dollars is going to get the radio.
Does the XXX idea think big time companies are going to roll in and drop bigtime ad dollars on “Listen to XXX in your new Chevy trucks.”
We know what country is. The country legends know what country is. Hell, Tim McGraw knows what country is and admits he strays from it. Shooters XM show is great and plays a lot of stuff that you don’t hear anywhere on mainstream or other satelite radio. But that is what it is… a show. It isn’t a genre. It’s a radio show or at best an entire XM station. Maybe he is gathering moment to get his own XM station. XXX on XM That seems to be something he would like and could do well. But this isn’t a genre.
IceColdCountry
January 11, 2011 @ 9:30 am
Shooter goes to XM with a few tens of thousands of signatures on that petition…think the XM executives might give him his own station?
That is my prediction for this movement.
3jg3
January 11, 2011 @ 9:49 am
Without getting to off track here, I think we all lose track of what we are talking about. In the end we are talking about music like it or not and each song will reach everbody diffrently. So with XXX Shooter wants to lump a whole lot of artist together, It wont work because from song to song the music will be to diffrent. Radio works/ or not because everthing on any given station is similar, with very few exeptions. I think most of the people on this site Scour the internet trying to find something new that peaks our intrest and that may be all this conversation does. Discussion of the “list” proves this point every person on this site will feel someone was left off. I am listning to an Itunes playlist right now that went
Vern Gosdin ”“ Set ”˜em up Joe
Waylon Jennings ”“ Ride me down easy
Shooter ”“ Everything Else is Illusion
George Strait ”“ Unwound
The Dead Weather ”“ Die by the drop
Chris Ledoux ”“ Fucking Jerk
Leroy Powell ”“ I aint human
Hank 3- Cocaine blues
In my lifetime I will never hear those songs in that order on any radio station. And am fine with that because I can make my own list. When I feel the itch for something “new” I search and add.
And one last note even if a new genre was created for radio who are we foolin to beleive it would be on the cusp of anything new, any genre on radio repeats the same thing for months on end with no discovery.
IceColdCountry
January 11, 2011 @ 10:45 am
After thinking about this last night, it popped in my head this morning-
Shooter goes to XM with a few tens of thousands of signatures on that petition”¦think the XM executives might give him his own station?
“Shooters XXX on XM music channel”
He would be good at it, his Sat. night Electric Rodeo show on XM is good, and it would give a voice to many bands that aren’t played much on XM let alone radio.
This is my prediction for this movement. It isn’t for clear channel radio markets, and it isn’t a new genre. It could become a genre out of an XM station.
Adam Sheets
January 11, 2011 @ 11:08 am
Good suggestion, but at the moment organizing a music festival in Nashville or Texas is the main goal.
jeremy
January 11, 2011 @ 12:57 pm
Adam, that would be great. I would love to be included.
Now lets talk about how polarizing it would be to have it Nashville as opposed to Texas, and vice versa.
Oh, what a slippery slope.
I love the chat though.
IceColdCountry
January 11, 2011 @ 1:28 pm
Dropping it in the middle of Nashville would be awesome!
You wanna keep with the “XXX” theme, but maybe move from the porn feel (triple X)
Should of called it- “CountXy MusXc” ???? Just a thought.
Shooter
January 11, 2011 @ 12:06 pm
Triggerman, I vary rarely reply on these types of things, but I felt, with this cause in mind that it was important that I do.
I must first state, that although I do view you as some what of a knowledgeable source, your biased and obviously angry reviews of me, my album and my concerts only come across as poor journalism. I never once have acted out of self-righteous rage, envy, anger orany other trite emotion in creating any of the works I’ve made. The only person putting out the term “Whiney, Spoiled etc” is you and YOU sound like the one who is angry, jealous and acting out of self-righteous rage. You don’t know me, you haven’t spent one minute with me, or conducted one hands on interview with me or anyone who knows me, so to judge me as such only makes for hateful rhetoric and slighted journalism. But I’m taking the high road on these issues, as I know if you asked anyone who knows me, they’d tell you otherwise.
The reason I’m writing is to first say, despite your extreme criticism, I appreciate you covering this. Our goal was never radio, it was just a facet of the entire thing we brought up because it is still the most common platform for music listening. Yes, satellite, the internet and all these are the new media, the future, but we are still in the beginning stages of the shift of power to the internet, so radio has to be part of the plan.
As far as the artists go, this was a makeshift list, we know that, and I’m happy to add and subtract any names that folks here, and folks like you feel needs to be done. It wasn’t the point. The point is that we never had a place to go in the first place, and we just want to bond under a common flag. Hell if you just take Scott Biram, Hank 3, Justin Townes Earle, Jason isbell, the drive-by Truckers and Black Angels and put them on a show, I guarantee it would be huge. Adam and I are only trying to brand a flag we can all live under, not push our personal agendas. I don’t care if I don’t get play on the radio or ever sell another record, I just love making music and I love trying new things, and while some people are happy doing whatever it takes to succeed, I find my joy in being experimental, doing different things, taking risks, and that’s what this was. I welcome your council, your reader’s council as well as anything or anyone who wants to help this movement along. We are not cocky, we are not trying to create a scene so we can be kings, we are just trying to offer some kind of solution for a light in the darkness. If you think its such a terrible idea, then don’t subscribe to it, but if you see a glimmer of a good idea, find ways to make it better and help us instead of finding all the cracks and exposing them.
Thanks for covering it either way,
Shooter
IceColdCountry
January 11, 2011 @ 1:41 pm
A country music fan here, two suggestions…
1. Change the “XXX”.
– with that said, I hate people who say something should be changed and have no offer of resolution, so my option for a name is “CountXy MusXc”. Playing off your idea of using an “X”.
2. Ask for an XM station. You deserve it. Your Electric Rodeo is awesome, and what your trying to put together with XXX would make a great 24hr. XM station. Your 2hr./once a week show isn’t enough time.
Shooter
January 11, 2011 @ 1:59 pm
Icecold, I appreciate the suggestions. XXX actually stuck with me because it was like the black to AAA’s white. We’ll see where it goes…
Thanks for the compliments regarding my radio show, I love doing it. I’d love to get my own station, I love playing the music that I do. The new 2011 shows start this saturday and are geared even more towards this format… We’ll see what happens!!
JahshieP
January 11, 2011 @ 2:32 pm
Shooter,
First off, I am a big fan of your music and am close with Ted. I tried numerous times to get an interview with you around the time of the release of Black Ribbons and was denied. To me, that is frustrating and can be seen as cocky. I’ve had the likes of Willie, Merle, Willie and Hank III on the show and the only person I could never lock down is you. No disrespect, but I promote the fuck out of you and even put Black Ribbons on my top 5 albums of 2010. I play your music even when listetners ask me not to. Trig and I have seen nothin in return.
Jahshie P.
January 11, 2011 @ 2:52 pm
And to note, I host Outlaw Radio Chicago. The last post was from my iPhone, so it didn’t show my link. We are an internet radio show dedicated to airing underground country, bluegrass, and roots music. I have been playing your music since “Put the O”, and have supported you throughout your career. My wife and I met you in Chicago when you performed acoustically with your mother opening for Tom Morello. You were beyond friendly and took the time to talk with us and take a picture with our son Tyler. I have had TRK on the show three times promoting his solo music, as well as your music. I tried relentlessly to get in touch with you before the release and after the release of Black Ribbons, the time when everyone would’ve loved to hear from you. I went through “My Rocket Science”. That may not be the correct name, it’s been a while and was giving the run around for about a month before I gave up. I am sure this is in no way your fault, but it was a bummer. I just wanted to re-write my last post as it may have come off as rude.
Shooter
January 11, 2011 @ 3:12 pm
Jahshie – Not rude at all, and thank you for your kind words, for supporting BR, and for supporting Ted and all of our music we’ve made together. I’m terribly sorry you were denied an interview, I’m happy to talk to ANYONE who wants to talk. We left Rocket Science in September because of their lack of support and vision. Sometimes you have to realize with a lot of artists, somebody on some level of some office, whether it be a label, or PR firm, or whatever can block an interview for some dumb reason and the artist never hears about it. This goes with staying close to the people who work your records etc, which I’ve always done, but even so, sometimes things slip through the cracks. If you ever want an interview or just wanna chat in the future you can email me directly at magicofscience@gmail.com . I’m always around. Thanks again for the support
Jahshie P.
January 11, 2011 @ 3:17 pm
thanks man, we’ll get you on within the next few shows. You are a real stand up guy. Talk to you soon!
Jahshie P.
January 11, 2011 @ 3:18 pm
thanks man, we’ll get you on within the next few shows. You are a real stand up guy. Talk to you soon! I think everyone on this forum respects you for coming on here and saying your peace. I will continue to support you and your music. Good luck with XXX.
Big A
January 11, 2011 @ 3:09 pm
Shooter,
Someone needs to put those guys (and others like them) together for a nationwide tour. Can you make this happen? Do you know someone who can?
Carla
January 11, 2011 @ 3:17 pm
Shooter
The Triggerman doesn’t need me (or anyone else for that matter) to come to his defense, however I would like to say I thoroughly disagree with your assertion that
his “biased and obviously angry reviews of me, my album and my concerts only come across as poor journalism”.
I’ve read every review he’s ever written about your albums – I even own one of them – and I’ve never gleaned from any of them that he’s “biased and angry”. When does having an opinion amount to poor journalism? Isn’t that exactly what a ‘review’ is: one person’s opinion?
Sorry, I am not trying to be rude here Shooter but to accuse The Triggerman of being jealous and rageful towards you comes across as a little arrogant to me. To say he is “some what of a knowledgeable source” I think is downright condescending, however I’m sure you know that and that’s why you said it. Call me old fashioned but I am a big fan of a little humility and the delicious aroma of humble-pie. I guess one way to perceive the reviews might be to have some gratitude he is reviewing you at all? It still amounts to publicity and promotion which must be ultimately good for you in moving a few units or getting people out to see you live.
I consider The Triggerman a wealth of information and and a real treasure to the underground music scene. He keeps me pretty broke as I end up adding 90% of what he introduces me to and reviews here, to my list. He’s articulate, witty and thorough.
End of the day, it’s really awesome to have someone like yourself commenting here, and I hope you do continue to keep abreast of what is posted and reviewed on the site. It’s fascinating hearing your opinions.
It sounds like yourself, The Triggerman and everyone contributing to this site has a very common purpose and mission. Something to celebrate from where I sit!
I hope the ultimate result of this will be an interview with The Triggerman? I’m sure that will be a spirited conversation. Oh to be a fly on the wall!
Best regards
Carla
The Triggerman
January 11, 2011 @ 3:41 pm
Honestly Carla, if I was Shooter, I would think my coverage of him was a bit confusing, if not at times condescending for a few reasons: 1) Because since I’m only one person here, I have to wear multiple hats, journalist and critic, sometimes at the same time. 2) Early on in my coverage of Shooter, I probably said things that were meant simply to be humorous, little jabs that were just meant to be fun that I do with many artists, and that is where the “condescending” remark comes from. But as time when on and I noticed that the country media had completely abandoned his beat, I began to take a much more journalistic approach to his coverage, because one of the foundations of this website is that EVERY good artist deserves press coverage. But if he read the first few stories, that might color his perspective on the future ones, and I personally can’t blame him too much for that.
Adam Sheets
January 11, 2011 @ 3:51 pm
I think a big problem when you’re writing about Shooter is tone. You start the article with “A while back it was brought to my attention that industrial rocker Shooter Jennings…” Sorry, but do you refer to Hank III as a metal singer?
Jahshie P.
January 11, 2011 @ 4:16 pm
With all do respect Adam, the promo package I received for Black Ribbons started “Forget about everything you’ve ever known about Shooter Jennings” or something along those lines, and included somewhere “Shooter puts his country roots behind him”. Again, not an exact quote because I no longer have the press pack. As stated by Shooter, this may have been written by Rock Science who he has since left.
The Triggerman
January 11, 2011 @ 4:31 pm
There’s a very specific reason that I started this out by calling him an “Industrial Rocker.” The name of this website is Saving Country Music, for better or worse, and any time I talk about something that people perceive to be out of my jurisdiction, I catch holy hell. If I had said “country rocker” you would’ve seen comments like “I listened to his last album, and there ain’t no country there.” Or if I has said “Waylon’s son” someone would have said “Waylon is rolling over in his grave!” I was simply establishing that the proceeding content was not 100% about country music to save all the stupid arguments.
I’ll also point out that as harsh as I have come across to Shooter, there are dozens of people that think I give him too much slack. Just before I read this comment, I was reading an email from someone disappointed that I have given in to “That glam rocker fa**ot.”
The Triggerman
January 11, 2011 @ 4:34 pm
Jashie, yes, that is exactly what the Rocket Science press release said. But like Shooter said above, Rocket Science wasn’t handling him well, and from a press standpoint, I would concur, so that might have been Rocket Science’s words, not Shooter’s wishes. Or maybe it was.
Carla
January 11, 2011 @ 8:20 pm
I get it Trigger, I also understand that if Shooter reads one of your reviews and takes offense to it that’s his right to do so, I mean it’s personal to him and he’s invested blood, sweat and tears in it. However as a reader, when I have read derogatory comments you’ve made about him (or others) I ALWAYS perceive it as humorous. Your writing leans towards the opiniated, colourful and witty and it’s what keeps me coming back for more. I personally run on sarcasm and irony and thoroughly enjoy that you have mastered both these mediums. I never think of it as spiteful, nasty or dark and it never discourages me from buying the music that you are reviewing. End of the day, the music must stand up on it’s own merits. And that’s a subjective thing anyway.
Keep doing what you are doing Triggerman. If you start dumbing it down or playing the game I shall have to come over there and bunch your lights out.
PS So great to have Adam and Shooter weighing in here. Interview please! Or even better, a wrestling match. I could run up some outfits for y’all on my Bernina if you like?
Carla
January 11, 2011 @ 8:22 pm
Okay if ‘bunching’ your lights out doesn’t work I might have to punch them out or bitch slap you with my handbag.
The Triggerman
January 11, 2011 @ 3:23 pm
Shooter,
First off, like I said up above I am impressed, excited, and relieved that someone is finally trying to take some initiative and leadership in trying to solve the problems I try to fight every day through this website, and that it is someone who I happen to respect as an artist, and who has country music royalty in their blood.
I have been critical of your music at times, but I also think I have been fair. People expect me to give my honest opinions, and I’d rather be honest and disliked by some, then be called a liar. I have also gone out of my way to make sure when covering you specifically, more so than any other artist, that I leave very stark lines between what is criticism and what is journalism, because I think it is a travesty that the country media abandoned you when word of the Black Ribbons project began to filter out. Just the other day I caught holy hell from many readers when I simply announced you had released a free album, without any snide remarks or criticism or anything, just simply stating the situation.
https://savingcountrymusic.com/shooter-jennings-offers-free-missed-the-boat-album
Also I don’t know where you get that I have criticized your live show. I saw you live once, and gave it a positive review:
https://savingcountrymusic.com/review-shooter-jennings-black-ribbons-live
Quote: “I”™m very glad that I can dot the period on a positive note, and I”™m not having to swallow hard and cross my fingers to do so. Shooter seemed genuinely happy with the new direction of his music. And though I will never be able to get behind elements of his new album, I can truly say his live performance was top notch. Grade it an A. “
The reason I am so vehement in my criticism about XXX is because this idea is good enough and important enough to be passionate about it. If you think me poking holes in it is harsh, wait until the music industry oligarchy gets wind of it and sends their legions of flying monkeys to shit on it at every turn. I’m harsh, because I care, and because it is worthy. If I thought it was stupid, I would have laughed at it, given a few snide remarks, and moved on. Instead I lost a night’s sleep wondering how I was going to answer all the people pleading with me to give my opinion. I wouldn’t have tried to do the same thing 10 months ago called “Anti-Country” if I didn’t think this was something we needed. You have no idea how much I have dreamed for the day when the disparate elements in the “too country, too rock” realm unite, and when a prominent artist starts speaking out more about what is going on in music.
Less than a week ago I wrote an article that spoke about that very thing:
https://savingcountrymusic.com/fowler-sells-out-for-cold-fords-hip-hop-in-a-honky-tonk
Quote:“I don”™t understand what is going on here. Why is this lowly little blog the only place where sheer mortification for this garbage lives? …Where”™s the outrage? Where are the voices of dissent?…Are they just unaware, or are they too afraid to put their own asses on the line for fear this is where all music is going and they don”™t want to be the ones at the party without a chair when the REAL music stops?…We need someone standing up to this that has a bigger megaphone than me.
And my criticism is in no way based in the fact that I was not a part of planning, however I think that if I was, 2/3 to 3/4 of the issues that have come up here and other places could have been resolved. For example, the way it is portrayed on the website, this is all about creating a radio format. Since then, there’s been talk of a festival, and the new media you listed up above. This makes me feel much more optimistic. I might concede that my criticism at times may have slightly crossed the line in the comments section (which I tend to do pretty often) but that doesn’t mean that I am not committed to this thing 100% if we can resolve some issues, NOT pertaining to my tastes of who should be involved or how it should go down according to my opinions, but on how it looks on paper, and if it make sense.
I want to see this work, I want it to be successful, I want to sign the petition. But to make it work, it is going to involve a lot of people working together, and putting differences aside for the greater good. It is also going to take better communication, and I know a few folks that are pretty good with words.
As a country music fan, as a rock fan, and as a music fan, thank you for finally being the one to take some initiative.
–The Triggerman
Jahshie P.
January 11, 2011 @ 3:38 pm
Nicely said. Now, we can all be friends!
Adam Sheets
January 11, 2011 @ 3:53 pm
We’ll take anybody’s ideas into consideration. Part of the reason the idea is out there is to hear what people think.
But the main thing you’re overlooking is that dozens of artists have signed on to the idea and think it’s a good thing. Another thing is that before the 1960s and ’70s, radio was rarely divided by genre. It was just good music. It’s worked before and can work again.
Shooter
January 11, 2011 @ 6:32 pm
Right on Triggerman. Sounds like we’re on the same page. I think that this “movement” or whatever we wanna call it could really take off if we had enough artists on board. I think the biggest goal would be to get a Festival together. Bring everyone together, bring down you and all the best of the writers who really know music, create our own place to go. That’s all I wanted to do. I’ve been talking about this for a long time and finally just through up a makeshift site so that I could get some people on board. I think the idea would work best if we had enough signatures on a page that we can take to all kinds of outlets to prove that there’s a demand for this kind of music. On top of that, just getting writers, like yourself, talking about it (I don’t care if I’m associated with it or not, I never wanted to take credit for it, I just wanted to get some balls rolling) and improving it, over time I think it’ll come together nicely. I must say all the good folks here have some GREAT ideas. Also when it comes to the artist list, it was kindof a pool of Adam and I’s idea of alot of artists we know that tend to stay in the cracks. In rock and roll, or hip hop, the edgiest, hookiest stuff is what is considered the “hit”. To me, “Pills I Took” by Hank III or “Hallelujah” by Ryan Bingham or “Sinkin’ Down” by Scott H Biram (the list could go on forever) could have been huge “hits” in their fields, which could keep these fantastic artists above water by selling albums, but instead they’re all broke, and barely hanging on with the money they make doing gigs in clubs. It’s a crying shame, and that’s what hurts me the most. And to comment on the lack of Ray Wylie Hubbard, who i LOVE and whose latest album is GREAT, I didn’t include alot of the Texas guys, because that’s where this, in theory, gets a little sticky. The red dirt movement and the Texas music charts, etc, is a self-maintaining machine. Not that they shouldnt be included here, the definitely should, but once you crack the Red Dirt nut, whose to say everyone can’t get in. I put Reckless Kelly on the list because theres some things they’ve done that I really feel are great and progressive, but as I said, I’m not the one who should be deciding these things solely. There are TONS of worthy artists, Ray Wylie included, that deserve to be on this list. I guess I wanted to just paint a general picture of what we’re talking about. It’s tough to be selective and picky too when you’re trying to help everybody out… We can rap more about this later. I welcome all your advice, and truly, truly appreciate all the support you’ve given by covering all the aspects of what I (and we) have been doing…
I think we’re alot alike in our tastes, so it’s good to actually talk to ya.
Shooter
KAK
January 11, 2011 @ 6:57 pm
There is a festival. It’s called “Muddy Roots” and it is scheduled to take place in September right in the middle of Tennessee! The guy who did it last year lost 10k on the event and this year he is hoping to break even. Maybe you should show up and join in!
Aran
January 11, 2011 @ 7:02 pm
Thanks KAK you read my mind. I was gonna mention Muddy Roots. It is a festival that fits this mold completely: too rock for country and too country for rock, which is how I like it.
The Triggerman
January 11, 2011 @ 7:48 pm
The ball is already rolling with Muddy Roots. This would be different. I don’t want to get into a big discussion about it here, but I can see how the two would be different.
KAK
January 11, 2011 @ 8:23 pm
Sure. Maybe Aaron Lewis could get a gig at the new fest…
He and Kid Rock could headline?
Spens
January 11, 2011 @ 12:40 pm
I’ve always liked “hillbilly” as a genre name.
Big A
January 11, 2011 @ 1:26 pm
I think this issue gets at the heart of my mission. Which, to me, is to see that artists with creative control over their own music get to make a decent living with, minimally, food on the table and the ability to afford health insurance. To me “Country,” the subjective definition, and the corresponding lists come in a distant second. Who gives a shit which FM station plays which music? There are plenty of musicians that have made a long, decent living playing music that I don’t hear on the radio. I’m thinking artists like Slayer or Willie Nelson, for example.
Like Trigger said, radio is dead. The money is made from touring and merchandise sales. That friends, is accomplished almost exclusively by marketing. Are the highest grossing pop country stars the ones with the most talent? No, they are the ones that date each other, appear in movies, go to red carpets, and have songs appear in movies. Basically, all of the shit that I don’t care about.
Which brings me around to XXX. Is it great that someone is trying to shine a light on lesser known artists? Yes. Do I believe that this idea, and the eighth-grade webpage that goes along with it, is the change we are looking for? No. Unfortunately, it will take an extremely organized top-down approach (i.e., XXX, satellite radio) or an extremely consistent, growing bottom-up approach (i.e., SCM.com, IBWIP, Muddy Roots). The irony is that the marketing that we detest for pop country is the same kind marketing that we will need to regain creative control and keep food on the table. I think a grassroots nationwide tour with some established, but legitimate artists could bust this thing wide open.
The Triggerman
January 11, 2011 @ 4:37 pm
Good thoughts Big A.
KAK
January 11, 2011 @ 8:24 pm
Agreed. Right on A.
olds
January 11, 2011 @ 4:45 pm
i think the answer is simple,…Rev Nix’s Stinkfinger radio is by far the best hour of radio i hear….now i might be biased cause he is kind to my tunes, but its true…i always hear something new that i want to check out…and the small community that joins in and participates in idle, perverted, and sometimes poignant chatter is what makes it feel like a family of sorts……i will never listen to some radio-conglomerate giantoid freakstation….i dont care what they play…unless of course, its STINKfinGER conglomerate radio broadcasting the revolution to all corners of the earth, and the chat room is full of the same divergent ideas….
you ve got what i need right here…and i think that given enough time, it could be revolutionary…
ps. this was all typed sober.
olds
KAK
January 11, 2011 @ 4:47 pm
Better said by you than me.
we love you Olds!
Rev.Nix
January 11, 2011 @ 5:54 pm
I’m honored and privileged to play the music i play on my show. As far as me being kind to your tunes…ha your tunes are kind to us. I play music i feel period. If i dont feel it i dont play it. Thanks for your sober kind words Olds. You are one of the greats always will be! .
KAK
January 11, 2011 @ 6:47 pm
Nix…you rock…
The chat on your show is the closest thing to extended family I’ve had in a long, long time. The community that comes from that is far more powerful than any programmed pay-for-use radio show. Bless you (if I believed in God) for doing what you do.
IceColdCountry
January 11, 2011 @ 5:24 pm
I am kind of surprised that I am the only one that has mentioned Shooter’s XM show??? I am not saying to get praise for myself, but since there are a few other shows mentioned throughout this thread, and no one here really likes maintstream radio, I guess I was assuming more listened to XM Outlaw Country channel.
I know there is a lot of internet radio shows, but I am just surprised no one else has discussed Shooter’s show and how well or not well it is done, and I have to think how much freedom he has on that show played into this XXX idea on some level.
KAK
January 11, 2011 @ 5:31 pm
I mentioned it…but here is the thing…XM costs money…and I fail to see the universal appeal of a music outlet/station/format/platform that is as elitist as XM can be understood to be.
I like his show actually…and as I said, my car has XM in it so when I am in it, I do often tune in.
IceColdCountry
January 11, 2011 @ 5:37 pm
Sorry, it may have been mentioned, I was just surprised it wasn’t a bit more.
I am not sure how you see XM as elitist? Is having cable TV elitist? TV used to be free too.
I have XM as it is very very affordable to subscribe, and I don’t watch much TV in the summer since I am out in the garage or yard and use XM to get my news, sports and music as background noise.
Gillian
January 11, 2011 @ 7:07 pm
I’m with Karen on this one. I was a bit freaked out when pay-for-radio came out. One of things I enjoy most about radio is you can turn it on and be immediately informed about the world for free. In an era of hyper-consumerism I rebelled by not buying radio as my mini protest.
David Lee the State Line Warrior
January 13, 2011 @ 2:51 am
I used to listen to Knoxville’s show and a lot of Willie’s Place. I miss them since they were taken off Direct TV
The Triggerman
January 11, 2011 @ 5:35 pm
I think you’re making good points about it man, but I don’t have Satellite radio, satellite TV, cable, none of it. Just my computer and rabbit ears on a small tv for the occasional sports event.
IceColdCountry
January 11, 2011 @ 5:40 pm
I would love to roll with jsut a computer (maybe XM too) but “others” in the house don’t find that as entertaining as having all the bells and whistles we can.
KAK
January 11, 2011 @ 5:44 pm
I’m with you on that Trig…I don’t have the cash for all the bells and whistles…and I think a lot of folks nowadays are in the same boat.
SCM and other internet platforms are far more “democratic” than cable, XM or other resources that take require additional monthly fees.
IceColdCountry
January 11, 2011 @ 5:54 pm
don’t you pay a monthly fee for internet access?
I am not arguing the cost of fees, they suck, and sure, internet you get access to anything and everything no matter who your provider is, but XM is like $12/month. Not exactly a bank breaker when compared to internet or cable. And they offer all types of programs/stations. Far left, far right, middle, everything.
I sound like an XM ad, but it is one of the better $12/month I spend. Plus sitting on a computer at work, at home, etc… gets to me.
KAK
January 11, 2011 @ 6:54 pm
I’d have to pay extra for use at home and not in my car…I don’t have cable…I have old pcs and an older mac in my home that my children and I share. We have only internet and cell phones as resources.
I do take my children to as many shows as I can (if they are all ages). And I have traveled I-75 more times than I can count to support bands playing in MI, OH, KY, IN, and TN. I am flying to Seattle to see Biram next month with friends out there. I’d rather spend my money supporting live music than renew my XM subscription.
Plus, I have great friends, (many of whom I’ve made via connections on here or FB) who do podcasts where I learn about new music.
Back to old’s comment…it is the community that fuels it for me.
Ga. Outlaw
January 11, 2011 @ 6:21 pm
First I’d like to say I’m as happy as I am shocked that Shooter commented hear. Also I feel a lot better about XXX after what he said. I think there’s still a lot of work ahead before it will work, but it’s sounding better & better. My sugestion for XXX is this. You need a spokesman someone who can say this is what we’re about & why, but it shouldn’t be someone like shooter because ture or not it will look like he’s pulling all the strings. I sugest fellow Outlaw Country DJ Mojo Nixon.
The Triggerman
January 11, 2011 @ 6:28 pm
I’ll only approve of Mojo if he ties his pecker to his leg.
🙂
Shooter
January 11, 2011 @ 6:35 pm
Hahahahaha I love the idea of getting Mojo on board, and I totally agree with you guys. The one reason i’ve always been a little hesitant to push something like this forward was because I don’t want it to be a situation where I’m in charge of something like this. I’m as important as every single other artist in this thing. I think we do need a spokesperson for sure that is like a happy medium ground. Let’s pool our thoughts and try and elect one! Like a real democracy. Someone who knows the entire catagory (and can tie their pecker to their leg when needed).
Adam Sheets
January 11, 2011 @ 6:41 pm
As I suggested earlier, Kris or Willie.
Jahshie P.
January 11, 2011 @ 7:05 pm
No offense to Kris or Willie, but they are both a bit out of the current loop. Sure, they both of course know of Shelton and Shooter, but beyond that, they are not familiar with most of the artists in the current “underground movement”. I’ve spoke to them both about this in the past and gathered that information personally. It would need to be someone younger and more in touch with the newer artists. Someone that knows the roots of the music as well as the future of the music.
Carla
January 11, 2011 @ 8:28 pm
Agreed Jahshie, highlighted perfectly by the fact they are dubbing their new project ‘The Musketeers’. Cringe. Both absolute legends however I think it needs to be someone young, progressive, hip (sorry I hate that word) and relevant. Like the Kanye West of underground country/roots. Okay maybe not.
PS When is Outlaw Radio Comp. 2 coming out? Can’t wait!
Ga. Outlaw
January 11, 2011 @ 7:30 pm
My case for Mojo Nixon as spokesman – Exzibit A (none of you want to see Exzibit B)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVxSKV5mHzk
KAK
January 11, 2011 @ 8:30 pm
LMAO!!! Hilarious. I love the tight 80s jeans too…
IceColdCountry
January 12, 2011 @ 8:18 am
Shooter,
No need to comment on this board, since this subject seem to stir a lot of feelings up for folks, but how does a guy like Jamey Johnson fit into this or could be a spokesman out front? From what I gather from your XM show, your good buddies with him, and from what I gather on him, he likes a wide range of music. Although he isn’t exactly an out front rally the troops spokesperson, but he is someone that is in the Nashville circles, but does his own thing.
There are a lot more insiders on here that might have an opinion on that, but from a casual fan reading these comments, and the call for someone to lead the charge with some popularity and pull, someone above mentioned artists like Jamey, Dierks Bentley, and Gary Allan.
I only bring up Jamey first, since I know your friends with him and not sure if you know the other two, or who you feel is a “mainstreamer” (I use that loosely) but also a bit outside the music row machine.
Thanks for your time on here.
Chris Lewis
January 12, 2011 @ 8:22 am
Shooter,
First of all, I really appreciate you commenting on this page. It really helps me respect you more as an artist than ever before not only because of this but the fact that you understand the underground country movement and realize that there needs to be some direction and outlet for it. I love your show on XM but I don’t get to listen to it anymore. Since the economy hit and housing market went down in flames my paychecks started getting shorter and XM was the first to go. Like you mentioned I’m also a big red dirt/texas country fan as well as an alt. country/insurgent country whatever you wanna call it. I wouldn’t be a fan of any of these red dirt or alt. country artists if it wasn’t for your XM show, SavingCountryMusic, Triggerman, a few friends, and just going to concerts for artists I’ve never heard of. So I wanna say thanks to both you, Triggerman, and Jashie P for that.
I’m with you on this XXX but I agree with everyone else on here about the name having to be changed. I understand this is gonna be one hell of a hill to climb for this to work. I’ll be there standing with you and the rest of these great people on this site congratulating and haivng beers together when it has been accomplished.
I agree that there needs to be a spokesman to spearhead this. But I don’t think it will require just one spokesman about this. I would like to see these current popular personalities to spearhead this in my opinion…Johnny Knoxville and the Jackass crew, Jamey Johnson, yourself, Hank III, Cody Canada and Jason Boland, Willie and Merle, and maybe a couple other movie/tv personalities. The reason for this each each one of these I list I feel are at the top of their area of popularity to get this idea noticed, such as Cody Canada/Jason Boland since they are at the top of the red dirt food chain, Yourself and Hank III since you are at the top of the alt. country food chain, Jamey Johnson who appears to be a the top in Nashville at the moment, etc.
By the way I live here in Champaign, IL and I’m going to see Dale Watson on Thursday and Cody Canada and the Departed on Monday. Can’t Wait!!! You need to come back to these parts soon.
IceColdCountry
January 12, 2011 @ 8:28 am
I know you want to hear from Shooter, but your group of people to lead this I couldn’t agree with more! I tried to convey that above but didn’t expand past some Nashville folks, as I think they are huge pieces to get the attention of labels.
Adam Sheets
January 12, 2011 @ 8:35 am
Guys how about a spokesWOMAN? Rosanne Cash is one who will be underground enough to know about a lot of these artists, yet well-known enough to gain some attention.
I’ve also suggested Jesco White and Unknown Hinson, although Mojo may ultimately be the best choice.
IceColdCountry
January 12, 2011 @ 8:56 am
Woman or man I don’t think really matters if they have the credibility and attention that is needed to move something like this along.
I am not sure I completely understand the ultimate goal with this, or that the goal has been targeted yet, example- is one goal to get an “underground” band on a clear channel radio mix regularly? Or on a CMA/ACM awards show? And how underground does that band have to be for everyone to be happy?
I think beyond a “spokesperson”, you need big time acts bringing underground acts on tour with them. Example- Kid Rock and Jamey Johnson don’t need to tour together. I know there are other acts people would recommend as examples, but I am talking BIGTIME/current, say the name and 99.9% of people know them.
Maybe Kid Rock and Jamey Johnson are touring together because they are buddies, but if they were to look at what is for the greater good, they each should pull an act from underground with them out on tour.
I would kill to see Whitey Morgan and Jamey Johnson in a bar room. Or Hank III and Jamey Johnson. I have no idea how they feel about one another, but as a fan, that would be awesome and it would be good exposure for all artists to wider audience.
The Mojo and Shooter shows on XM, and Johnny Knoxville to some extent, do playlists that offer these parings, but we have to get these parings together on tour. Maybe the big music fest lights that fire for artists to pair up. If it just becomes once a year music fest…well we have plenty of those. It won’t break the machine that we all seem to be hoping for.
Chris Lewis
January 12, 2011 @ 9:58 am
Yeah I do think there would be room for a spokeswoman and I would have listed one but no one really came to mind other than Elizabeth Cook, Lee Ann Womack, or Rachel Brooke, but honestly they don’t seem popular enough at this point to get noticed like the acts I mentioned above. No certain female artist so far that is not mainstream really stands out to me.
As for the others you mentioned I like them all but I just don’t think they would appeal to listeners who have never heard of these acts before. You need artists who are somewhat popular already just to get the ball rolling.
I agree with IceColdCountry that there needs to be somewhat mainstream artists to take these lesser known acts on the road with them to get noticed.
What I haven’t understood from the alt. country community is that they don’t seem to promote each other like the red-dirt grassroots movement has done. I think that’s why red dirt/texas country has been gaining more popularity.
jeremy
January 12, 2011 @ 10:23 am
Anyone mention Emmylou??
The Triggerman
January 12, 2011 @ 11:05 am
All of this just proves to me there is a lot of work to do. I’m not sure how fruitful it is to focus on specifics, until we make sure the generalities fit together in a cohesive manner.
And as far as Jamey Johnson, I don’t think he fits the mold because he gets support from mainstream country, and he would be even more polarizing than Shooter or Hank III as spokesman.
This is not fantasy football where you can plug names in and out. The focus needs to be on practical stuff, in my opinion.
IceColdCountry
January 12, 2011 @ 11:14 am
I think Mojo would be a good peice, but wouldn’t he kind of be preaching to the chior? He hosts an Outlaw Country show, so he already appeals to the crowd.
Would he be able to appeal to a larger/mainstream audience? I don’t know his history prior to XM, but to drive this movement to become more than just another offshoot of underground, I really think it takes some current mainstream artists to bring along some lesser known artists.
I don’t mean to keep going back to Jamey Johnson, but when he debuted the song “Macon” on some awards show a year ago, he had Jeremy Popoff (formaly of the rock band “Lit”) on guitar. I didn’t know that Popoff did any type of country music. I wasn’t a Lit fan. I looked it up, and there he was on myspace with some country (maybe not to everyones liking), but Jamey having him with him for that small piece, introduced me to Popoff’s country side.
Simply an example, not an endorsement or end all be all for the artist example.
IceColdCountry
January 12, 2011 @ 11:19 am
I agree with your Trigger. It is ultimately up to the artist to want to lead this. Not the XXX group going out “drafting” someone in the hopes.
If an big name artist showed interest, then I think it would be great. But as we saw with this article, one of the first things many did was get on Shooter for doing this out of selfishness. So a question would be, could any current big name actually get the support of the “underground” mass if they aren’t “underground” anymore?
David Lee
January 13, 2011 @ 3:19 am
This is getting pretty humorous…looks like you got what you’ve been lookin for Triggerman.
declared ungovernable
January 13, 2011 @ 10:19 pm
Regarding choosing a spokesperson: “I”™ve also suggested Jesco White and Unknown Hinson, although Mojo may ultimately be the best choice.”
Did Adam Sheets really list Jesco White as a spokesperson for this? Seriously? You have lost your mind? I don’t think Ineed to list all the reasons why that is ridiculous…
Adam Sheets
January 11, 2011 @ 6:48 pm
Triggerman, as promised I’ll now explain why I feel Merle and Loretta bridged the gap between rock and country.
Merle did so by being a part of the Bakersfield sound which predated the outlaw movement and was one of the first country movements to employ standard rock instrumentation as one of it’s major features.
With Loretta, it is more of a lyrical connection than a musical one. She sang songs about issues that were taboo at the time, especially for ladies. Songs like “Rated X” and “The Pill” that made her just as accessible to feminists as she was to rural housewives.
Carla
January 11, 2011 @ 8:38 pm
Brilliant point Adam! I love seeing progressive, strong, influential women in music. Think about how low that glass ceiling would have been in those days too? Dolly is another one. Back in the day she was a total fox. I love the fact she’s endured, is still making beautiful music with that gorgeous voice and those big acrylic nails. She’s self-deprecating and has a big heart too. Aside from her songwriting and musical talent she’s such a savvy and smart businesswoman. Damn anyone that has their own freakin’ theme park is pretty much a hero to me.
Ga. Outlaw
January 12, 2011 @ 10:42 am
Exzibit B (why Mojo Nixon should be spokesman)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auFz6AYB0h4
KAK
January 12, 2011 @ 12:08 pm
I had a conversation with Scott H. Biram once about this very subject. I told him I’d love to do some sort of a project tracing the roots of this new roots music back in all directions. He pointed out that one group that routinely gets left out is the bluesmen who continue to play today.
Your article:https://savingcountrymusic.com/brothers-that-bring-the-roots
is a great expression of his concern. He told me to go check out Kenny Brown and not to forget to talk to Chris Johnson from Deep Blues.
He made it clear to me that he didn’t abide by one organization or group having complete control of naming, cataloging or controlling this thing. Actually, his exact words were: “I don’t think it should belong to any one organization. That would simply make the whole thing into an over generalized genre of music and water down the beauty of it all.”
I tend to agree with him on this…
What about asking other artists? What would they have to say?
The Triggerman
January 12, 2011 @ 2:18 pm
Apparently Scott has signed up to this thing.
And no KAK, there will be no bar graphs, sorry to disappoint.
KAK
January 12, 2011 @ 3:17 pm
I want to do it still. I want you to help me. Like a family tree. I’ve been wanting to do that for a long time. I think those types of charts are so cool to look at as visual tools.
Well well well…I guess SHB’s convictions changed, eh?
Sean
January 12, 2011 @ 12:46 pm
This is nothing more than a plea for attention. Do these people really think an online petition signed by a few people is going to make corporate radio create new stations all over this country to please the minority of people who enjoy this “genre”? Plus, I love Arson Anthem plus the bands like eyehategod and crowbar who’s members compose it with Hank III. However to think that belongs on FM radio is just preposterous. FM radio is a money maker, it is aimed at the majority demographic not the fringe groups because that is who the advertisers want to target. To think FM radio is about anything more than that is just foolish.
Shooter has to get behind creating a genre because he doesn’t know where he fits in. IMHO, anyone caught too much up in defining genres has completely missed the point of music entirely.
Plus the XXX thing, if there is a genre called XXX I damn well expect bow chica wow wow type porn soundtracks, not country rock crossover.
Denise
January 12, 2011 @ 2:02 pm
I’ll admit I wear that fringe. Music is music, and now, music is business. I agree with you to a point Sean. You can’t go mainstream and then wish you were underground again.
KAK
January 12, 2011 @ 2:10 pm
A plea for attention and perhaps money?
The Triggerman
January 12, 2011 @ 2:19 pm
A country music roundtable has been called over this matter. Expect it posted in the next 24 hours.
jeremy
January 12, 2011 @ 3:26 pm
Interesting for sure…
The Triggerman
January 12, 2011 @ 4:44 pm
I should have put “saving” country music roundtable, which might make this much less interesting, kind of like the difference between the assistant vice president, and the vice president’s assistant.
Dave the Webmaster
January 12, 2011 @ 3:51 pm
I am not, nor will I ever be a fan of songs that rely totally on strumming a G chord through a huge amplifier. I also do not enjoy vocals with excessive guttural inflections combined with breath noise.
Neither of these techniques is something that I would consider country, and I would guess that’s what is behind the “glam rock” comments and less than favorable reviews.
There, I’ve said it.
Pillsbury
January 16, 2011 @ 7:01 am
What band(s) are you referring too?
steviedal
January 12, 2011 @ 4:17 pm
Had a great time reading all these comments but i’m a little sad that there’s so much squabbling over the music that we all have in common . Jeez , you guys should have a big summit meeting and all get round a table and get on the same page cos you have more in common than you have differences …
lotta love . Stevie .
The Triggerman
January 12, 2011 @ 4:47 pm
All this squabbling has already resulted in some positive results, better understanding, and mended bridges. Conflict breeds resolution, though it is not always pretty.
BlueRibbonRadio
January 12, 2011 @ 5:17 pm
I just want to hear people sing songs. And once a week push buttons to make those songs play on my show. All this bickering makes me dizzy.
KAK
January 12, 2011 @ 5:28 pm
Well, BlueRibbon, you did clarify something for me earlier when you pointed out that this is merely a radio show and NOT a definitive genre that others will be forced to submit to in order to gain entrance into some sort of club.
If it is nothing but a radio show, let them call it whatever the hell they want. I don’t care. If I don’t have XM or if I don’t want to, I don’t have to listen to it.
Shooter
January 14, 2011 @ 4:46 pm
There’s no club man. No one is gatekeeper either. It’s an idea… We’re trying to help not hurt… Just did a great interview with Outlaw Radio, and we talked about this. Really looking forward to the Roundtable discussion.
Hillgrass Keith
January 14, 2011 @ 4:50 pm
there is a club…. and you ain’t in it…
Jahshie P.
January 14, 2011 @ 10:00 pm
Shooter’s interview will air MONDAY at 7:30PM Central time. Listen in.
Ojaioan
January 15, 2011 @ 1:13 pm
List’nin forward to it!
IceColdCountry
January 15, 2011 @ 9:52 am
What’s the club Keith??? Do tell.
Hillgrass Keith
January 15, 2011 @ 4:06 pm
i was simply just talking out of my ass. I just think XXX is hokeyness at full fluff, and never cared for Shooter. Although, I respect Whitey, and SHB will carry anything he’s involved with, but I think the music should be respected and not further confused, I am fighting EVERYDAY for community. I sum all of ours up very easily, Hillgrass Bluebilly. I will challenge XXX with HB vision any day of the week on the stage, with my hands in my pocket and my backed turned. just sayin….
There is too much exclusion with this. Although Shooter grabs the late 20’s crowd, a lot of them working in their educated field (as well), would make for very nice blends all in all… . Shooter and Biram has toured together 5 or so years back… (always splitting apart in Phoenix back in those days mind you, and per our request/demand of “No Shooter”)… just theme a tour and make that work… maybe even xxx tour… but it ends… and is remembered…. and can be keepsaked
But XXX will be one more thing I feel I have to contend with, rather than join hands with… unite with… present with…. create with. But then again, I am a rootsy mother fucker by ear, even snobbish. As far as the blend with rock, ok. Go sign Glambilly out of San Antonio (decieving, almost, with near hit with band 10 City Run in 06′ 07) and go do your thang…… on THAT side of the fucking yard. I am actually enforcing liveby’s to da da daaaaa save country music.
IceColdCountry
January 20, 2011 @ 8:19 am
Keith,
I had never heard of Hillgrass Bluebilly prior to this site. Given your comments and attitude, I don’t want to know any more about it. So you have accomplised keeping your little circle, little.
Ever think about maybe the attitude you have is why your movement doesn’t get anywhere?
KAK
January 15, 2011 @ 2:09 pm
Me? Oh well, that doesn’t shock me. 🙂
Artists Back XXX Genre / Roundtable Discussion « Saving Country Music
January 14, 2011 @ 6:34 pm
[…] is a bigger issue facing the music we all love than this proposed XXX genre. I have already made my initial thoughts known, and had many critical things to say, some of which have been resolved with further dialogue […]
Roscoe
January 15, 2011 @ 11:51 am
Man this had more comments than anything you’ve written about Jamey Johnson or Justin Townes Earle lets hope they don’t decide to try and start a radio station or genre your site would explode Triggerman I think it’s an ok idea just has alot of kinks to workout.
Nathan38401
January 19, 2011 @ 9:56 pm
Guys im new here (my first comment).
I love what this site promotes, Artist ive never heard of. most that ive heard monday night and tonight are great. I love music. What this site is for is for me. XXX (some dont like the name) but the idea is a great idea. put all these great unheard artists under an umbrella so that people like me that know some of the artist will be compelled to hear and support others that i wouldve never had the chance to before.
That being said.
I have found an assclown amongst the ranks of the many commenters on here.
hellbilly keith
here is a link to his blog, with a Shooter reply and a very fragile response from him.
http://hillgrassbluebilly.blogspot.com/2011/01/hillgrass-bluebilly-on-xxx.html
If you are an artist on his label get the hell off. I think much like Nashville he wants no progression of his talent. Keep em stuck where they are at.
The_Outlaw_Artist
January 19, 2011 @ 11:11 pm
Couldn’t agree with you more Nathan38401, Shooters been nothing but generous, and civil. Keith has showed that he is a rude individual with his post and even further with his reply to Shooter’s comment.
The Triggerman
January 20, 2011 @ 12:17 pm
Nathan & Outlaw Artist,
I am very glad to see some Shooter fans on this site defending him, FINALLY. But unfortunately you are about a week, 2 call outs by me personally, 3 articles, and 500 comments too late. We need more Shooter fans here to create a healthy discussion. Instead what has happened is Adam Sheets has gotten dogpiled and people are accusing me of being “star struck” over Shooter and saying I have lost my credibility.
Good points nonetheless, but you and other Shooter faithful need to understand that this is where the outreach is needed. He already reigns supreme over his own message board and internet properties.
The_Outlaw_Artist
January 20, 2011 @ 1:43 pm
Yea, I see what you’re saying. I would have commented earlier but college life is a bitch and finding time between tests and commissions to comment is sometimes hard. And in all honesty I haven’t seen a need to defend shooter, for the most part you’re articles have been fair and filled with constructive criticism (as oppose to the random bashing some people tend to write) But I do plan on commenting more often as well as trying to get some of the fans from the shooter forum over here to throw in there 2 cents. Because as you said SCM needs more Shooter fans to create a healthy discussion. And while I’m a tad late to the party (a bit of an understatement I know) I’m more than happy to oblige.
Also I don’t find you to be star struck, I think people who would accuse you of such, are most likely people who hate shooter. IMHO I think you’ve just been thorough in covering the XXX subject. It’d be next to impossible to fairly cover it without speaking to Shooter or Adam. So what they deem as being starstruck is only good/fair journalism or blogging….or whatever you call it.
BlueRibbonRadio
January 20, 2011 @ 2:23 am
I’m going to be perfectly honest, and this comment may get deleted, but I think Keith is out of his fucking mind. I’ve not understood half the shit he’s said, and he goes from being for it, to against every other post.
I could give a shit if he likes the idea or not, but to do a personal attack on somebody who has been very involved in coming on here and discussing things is WAY out of line.
IceColdCountry
January 20, 2011 @ 8:15 am
I have never met anyone on this site, and for the most part find the debate/discussions good and enlightening.
But there is a very small percentage of people on here, Keith being one, that are not open to anything outside of their little circle. That is probably why the circle stays so little.
They look at “standing their ground” on every single little thing as some badge of honor. There is no way that anything can become bigger and better unless there is some compromise and give and take. And to be clear, that doesn’t mean your selling out or giving up your true self.
But what does a guy like Keith expect to contribute to the cause of saving country music, with his comments and attitude?
Berry
January 20, 2011 @ 4:23 pm
i feel the XXX movement is the first positive step taken in a long time .
through this i found this site & got turned onto a lot of great music i haven’t heard before .
think about this , if you love this music don’t you want more people to have a chance to hear it ? i know i do .
that’s why i think XXX is something to get behind .
that’s my 2 cents …Berry
The Disposition of Hank III & Shooter Jennings By XXX « Saving Country Music
March 1, 2011 @ 1:38 pm
[…] where it is, and just how far it has gone, but for certain it is not going away. As I said in my first comments about XXX, comments in which Shooter himself said I was being “extremely critical”: Finally, […]