Death Threats & Stifling Dissent: Stan Culture Run Amuck

The term “Stan” was never supposed to be a term of endearment, or something to be proud of. Taken from the Eminem song “Stan” released in 2000 about an obsessed Eminem fan who ends up killing himself and his pregnant girlfriend after going off the rails, it doesn’t exactly paint an enviable picture of next-level fan loyalty.
But in this unusual time in society and social media, Stanning a celebrity has become considered by many as a virtue and admirable—akin to “allyship” for marginalized groups—with some Stans winning incredible amounts of attention and pseudo celebrity status themselves, while Stans for certain artists are now commonly embedded throughout the media and press corps.
In fact this is how viral star Lil Nas X and “Old Town Road” came to prominence. By running a Nicki Minaj Stan account called Nas Minaj (and later Nas Marai), Lil Nas X racked up a six figure followership on Twitter, mostly by stealing the content of smaller Twitter accounts and re-purposing it in a practice called Tweetdecking—an activity his Stan account was ultimately banned for, but not before he was able to use the platform to launch “Old Town Road” to a massive and engaged audience.
New York Mag ran an entire investigation on it, concluding, “Regardless of the quality of “Old Town Road” and its viral success on platforms like TikTok and its shrewd manipulation of streaming charts, its real launchpad is rooted in the mildly seedy, artificially inflated world of tweetdecking.”
But Lil Nas X was fine when his subterfuge was revealed. Why? Because he had his own Stans in the media to run interference for him. He emphatically denied having any involvement with Nicki Minaj Stan accounts, and nobody challenged him on the overwhelming evidence in interviews. Stanning for Lil Nas X was seen as virtuous since the narrative became how he had been kicked out of country music due to racism, when in truth Billboard had concluded exclusively Lil Nas X had manipulated the metadata of “Old Town Road” to be included in country charts to game the system. In June of 2020, Lil Nas X finally admitted to using Nicki Minaj Stan accounts to launch his career—over a year and $4 million in net worth later.
Nicki Minaj Stans are notorious for being some of the most aggressive in music, sending death threats to journalists, bullying individuals from rival Stan armies, and often engaging in practices that fit into various forms of bigotry (Lil Nas X’s Stan accounts included), which has all been well-documented over the years.
But we never thought we would see this dubious and disturbing practice coming from the otherwise docile, suburban-dwelling Stans of Taylor Swift. Nonetheless, this is what happened last week after the release of her surprise new album, Folklore when the Senior Editor of Pitchfork, Jillian Mapes, received a barrage of death threats after the outlet posted their review of the record. Angry Taylor Swift fans doxxed the editor, sending out her personal information, phone numbers, emails and address. Soon her inboxes and mentions on Twitter filled up with death threats and other aggressive missives, including threats to burn down her house. She received threatening calls on her personal cell phone at 2 a.m.—mere hours after the review had been posted.
Even more alarming is that the Pitchfork review wasn’t even negative in nature. The periodical gave it an 8.0/10 score and praised the record, even though the (apparently) low score of 8/10 was the specific rallying cry of the Stans attacking Jill Mapes. When the review was posted, it resulted in a slight downtick in the overall grade on the review aggregator site Metacritic, which is specifically what made many Stans incensed. Also important to point out, 8.0 wasn’t the personal score of editor Jill Mapes. As Pitchfork readers know, multiple critics may chime in on an album, resulting in their famous aggregate scores often ending in decimal points.
Jill Mapes was forced to turn her Twitter account private after the incident. “I’ve gotten too many emails saying some version of, ‘you are an ugly fat bitch who is clearly jealous of Taylor, plz die,’ which is not the first time I’ve heard that from pop stans… It sucks to be scared of every person milling about outside or feel like you can’t answer the phone.”
The situation is similar to when pop star Lana Del Rey attacked NPR critic Ann K. Powers for a mostly positive review for her 2019 record Norman F— Rockwell. Lana Del Rey was specifically triggered by Ann K. Powers’ insinuation that she had a “persona,” and tweeted out an angry response to her some 6 million followers, resulting in many Stans attacking Powers. In that case (and the Jill Mapes incident), fellow journalists and fans of the writers rushed to their defense.
The Lana Del Rey incident was much less aggressive than the incidents involving Nicki Minaj or Taylor Swift, but it’s part of an increasing trend where Stans seem to have lost all touch with reality (which is sort of the definition of Stanning), and even scarier, appear to be proud of it. Stanning aggressively for artists is a way to increase social capital for individuals who often have very little of it outside of social media. That is why Stanning becomes so attractive to them, especially in the era of social media where fans can interact directly with the artists, which platforms such as Twitter facilitate.
Often it’s the most aggressive Stan accounts that receive the most attention and social media engagements, incentivizing even more aggressive behavior and blind loyalty to artists who are often unwilling to reign in their Stan armies because they benefit via the built-in loyalty, and from having enforcers on the internet willing to challenge and stifle dissent, including from journalists and critics. Taylor Swift, Nicki Minaj, and other artists have never addressed the death threats and other abuse being perpetrated in their name.
This is how the Stan culture is actively stifling dissent in music journalism, and eroding the important medium of criticism in the music marketplace. This is one of the reasons you see so little actual criticism in music today, while movie, television, food, art, and other disciplines still experience and value constructive criticism. If you will receive death threats for publishing positive reviews, imagine the backlash that can be stirred by neutral or negative ones.
After Shooter Jennings released the song “The Gunslinger” on his 2013 record The Other Life, Saving Country Music was sent multiple death threats by Shooter Stans believing the song was payback for previous reviews posted on the site. When Saving Country Music posted a respectiful obituary for the death of Shooter’s manager, Jon Hensley, it resulted in the doxxing of personal information—including address and personal phone number—and an onslaught of death threats and death promises to myself and my family, and further harassment and purposeful spreading of falsehoods that continues to this day.
The Stan issue has become so toxic, it has resulted in the outlet Junkee choosing to now post coverage of certain high profile pop stars and coverage of the Stan culture itself anonymously as opposed to using writer’s bylines.
“In my three years at Junkee Media, I can think of at least a dozen times our staff have been the targets or orchestrated harassment campaigns that range from childish memes to very specific threats,” says editor Rob Stott. “Staff have had their locations revealed online, their families and universities bombarded with emails and calls, and their social media profiles flooded with hate and threats. All because of stan culture.”
And the concern shouldn’t just be compartmentalized to music. In June when President Trump planned a rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, K-Pop Stans launched a campaign to sign up for tickets en masse to the event to both dry up availability for would-be attendees, and to inflate expectations for organizers on how many people may attend. Though some have written off the effort as a non factor, this move is given credit by many for the famously low attendance the rally drew.
If you’re not a fan of President Trump, you may cheer the effort of the K-Pop Stans. However, this can work against one’s favorite politician or party as well. With the blind loyalty and the large numbers Stan armies boast, they could definitely influence politics and the results of elections in the future, not from personally-held beliefs, but via blind loyalty and bloc voting based off of the edicts of pop stars. That’s possibly one of the factors of how Trump—who enjoyed his own blind loyalty from his reality TV career—got elected in the first place. Stan armies could very well become a major political force in the years to come. The on again, off again flirtation to run for President by Kanye West is a perfect example.
Many approach Stanning similar to a video game, or a pastime. But it’s not a question of if, but when the practice goes far beyond online bullying, and parallels the story portrayed in Eminem’s song where people die, and there is no happy ending, only confusion of why someone would ever take their fandom for a performer so far.
August 4, 2020 @ 12:00 pm
The Stan culture is toxic and I wish law enforcement would take these threats and harassments more seriously than they do. It’s getting worse. Even on a blog like this one where most commenters aren’t so called stans, the comment section on any article featuring Swift or Carrie Underwood or Blake Shelton or (the absolute worst case) Miranda Lambert gets totally bombarded by these “super fans.”
It honestly makes me not want to comment on ANYTHING. I don’t need the hassle. I can’t even imagine how Trigger and other industry writers must feel.
It’s like the music doesn’t matter anymore. It’s all about cults of personalities. And honestly, the artists themselves need to be doing more to keep their fans in line. They should be adamant that anyone caught threatening or stalking on behalf of the artist be banned from their little online corner of the the fanclub.
August 4, 2020 @ 12:05 pm
Dee Manning on here is a huge stan… Whenever I mention BS, she slides into my conversation.
August 4, 2020 @ 12:14 pm
…says a self-professed Jon Pardi Stan who commonly mentions Blake Shelton off-topic.
August 4, 2020 @ 12:27 pm
I’m a peaceful Stan of Pardi though.
And I enjoy most of Blake’s stuff
August 4, 2020 @ 12:33 pm
Actually I’m a Gwen Stefani stan, have been since I reviewed her show at the Troubadour in LA in the 90s. But I support the guy who makes her happy (and who got me interested in country music beyond Johnny Cash.)
August 4, 2020 @ 1:10 pm
What exactly do either of you get out of calling yourselves Stans?
August 4, 2020 @ 1:29 pm
For me, I spent much of my life as a music reporter so I never really got to fangirl. Had to appear professional and objective as much as possible. Got really burned out on it, switched careers, and when I came back to music as a fan, I really got into it. It’s fun, just like it’s fun to be a fan of a sportsball team.
Also, like I mentioned there is a sense of community. You befriend people online you would never have crossed paths with otherwise. For instance, one of my fellow Gwen stans is an ER nurse in Missouri. 100% different background. We have really informative discussions about covid19 and politics in general. Gonna meet her IRL if tourism ever comes back to Vegas.
August 4, 2020 @ 1:33 pm
So are you a fan or are you Stan? Do you understand the word, as Trigger described in this article?
August 4, 2020 @ 2:31 pm
Jake, I have seen Gwen’s Vegas show twice and road tripped to LA to see Friends and Heroes tour; I vote repeatedly for videos and awards etc. and stand up for G&B when others are trolling them on Twitter (though I eventually just blocked all the insane Miranda fans, I really enjoy her music and don’t want her awful fans to make me dislike her). Do I go troll other people’s fandoms? Absolutely not. So I dunno does that make me a fan or a stan?
August 4, 2020 @ 2:35 pm
Jake Cutter acts as the “moderator” for this site…
His comments are literally everywhere.
I used to be the #1 most annoying commenter, but Jake has taken over.
Hopefully I’m still a solid #2 fool of a stool.
August 4, 2020 @ 2:36 pm
You’re the one referring to yourself that way… I was just wondering if you knew what it meant.
August 4, 2020 @ 2:53 pm
Stans are literally fans that “stand” behind their artist.
United we Stan…
“Stan” can be a toxic term tho. Stans never refer to themselves as stans…
I’m not really a Stan of Pardi…. I just use the term in a foolish way.
August 4, 2020 @ 12:30 pm
The stan culture doesn’t have to be toxic, but it can be. I think particularly now with people being so isolated, online communities are really important, you make friends within them. So people rally around sports, hobbies, political beliefs, pets, it’s natural they would rally around music also.
In a way, everyone on this site is a stan, just of traditional sounding country music as opposed to a particular artist. You love something passionately and you stand up for it and protect it. And get pissed off at/make fun of those who don’t agree with you.
But, some people are crazy and go too far in whatever they do. It’s like in the middle of thousands of football fans who own tons of merch, watch every game, consider Super Bowl Sunday a national holiday etc. there’s that one guy who sets someone’s car on fire when their team actually wins the Super Bowl. (Or, in the case of Miranda stans, trolls the TikTok account of Gwen’s 14 year old son.)
Maybe cause everyone is extra stressed out, there are more stan firestarters, so to speak. Doesn’t make it right, but it’s 2020. Everything is running amok and turning into shit, why should this be any different?
August 4, 2020 @ 12:44 pm
Ànd that’s why I think artists should speak out more. Miranda should have made a statement telling her fans to knock it off after the tik Tok thing Last week, when Carrie Underwood’s fan engaged in their brutal attack over Miranda’s #1, Carrie should have made a statement (besides the short congratulations). Taylor should be all up in the face of her fans right now over these death threats. If the stans are so loyal to these artists, it makes sense they would behave if their hero expressed some outrage and disappointment in their behavior.
August 4, 2020 @ 1:19 pm
I would consider myself a Carrie Underwood stan in a non toxic manner and am apart of the twitter fandom so to speak and genuinely saw no one saying anything negative about Miranda’s number one out of the 1000 plus people I follow so idk where you’re coming up with that because it definitely isn’t the vast majority.
August 4, 2020 @ 1:40 pm
Every single social media post that I saw from press organizations writing about “Bluebird” hitting #1 had a pure clown show in the comments. It wasn’t JUST Underwood fans, there was a fair share of BS/GS stans and Turnpike Troubador stans there venting as well, but the the Underwood people were the majority.
And Lambert is a polarizing figure. I get that. But really, how childish. And it’s the same when Lambert’s Stan’s go after other artists.
But to say “I didn’t see it, so it’s not a problem” is a little naive. Underwood’s stans call themselves to arms every time ANY other female artist has success (Miranda only gets hit so hard because she’s the most successful – but they also have gone after Morris and Musgraves after they won major awards). And let’s not forget the vicious social media attacks they unleashed on Garth Brooks and Eric Church after the CMAs last year. I mean I thought Underwood should have won EoTY and I was upset they crowned Brooks again, but the amount of vitriol they spewed at Brooks and Church was unbelievable.
It’s not a MAJORITY. It’s enough to be a problem though. And it sucks because Carrie Underwood is such a decent and supportive artist (especially of the very female acts her stans attack).
August 4, 2020 @ 1:20 pm
The media can write all the think pieces they want. The people who are the problem are not going to read them. It really is dependent on the artists to take some responsibility in this matter, but they’re disincintivized from doing so because these Stans help spread the word about their music, and act as social media enforcers quashing dissent.
August 4, 2020 @ 5:27 pm
Stan’s also tend to be people who put money in artists pockets. Fan clubs, merch, concert tickets, free publicity on social media, etc. For the fame whores of the world Stan’s are the ultimate Johns.
August 4, 2020 @ 7:12 pm
Taylor admonishing her fans? Right.
August 10, 2020 @ 5:39 pm
Not to start anything but you said Miranda Lambert is more successful than Carrie Underwood and they are both wonderful at what they do especially in their own lane but that is false❗️❗️❗️ Carrie has more number ones on the chart and out sold Miranda by millions❗️She even have more awards overall if we are counting the Grammys and American music awards. But again I love them both but no need to lie
August 10, 2020 @ 6:32 pm
Whoa, calm dow, there, stannie!
I clearly meant Miranda was more successful than McBryde or Morris or Musgraves – not Underwood. I was taking about Underwood stans attacking those other female artists. Notice the words “ANY other female artist” in that sentence?
It’s a well known fact Underworked is the most successful female mainstream country artist of the last 10-15 years.
Chill. No one is “lying” about your hero.
August 5, 2020 @ 11:42 am
So Dee Manning let me ask you a question: if someone reviewed BS or GS song, another fan or journalist, and it was a fair assessment but a negative assessment would you be able to respect that review or would you call it amazing because it was sung from one of them? Can you be objective when it comes to reviewing the work? i think that is the difference between a fan and a stan.
August 5, 2020 @ 2:39 pm
I was really objective about music when I was a reporter. Now, I don’t have to be objective cause that’s no longer my job. But I could definitely go through their catalog of work and rank it favorite to least favorite, I don’t think every single thing they released is great.
On the other hand when it was announced yesterday Gwen is on Dua Lipa’s remix album I was one of the people being super happy and retweeting everything about it. So yeah, I’m a stan. Just not a psychotic one. [Smiley face here].
August 5, 2020 @ 5:57 pm
Anyone earnestly self-identifying as a “Stan” creeps me out.
I joke about (and my friends make fun of me for) being a Jade Bird superfan (I’ve seen her live several times, including traveling a few hours to catch a show, will tell my friends to go see her, when she’s playing a show in their town, and have a “Top Fans” badge on Facebook)…but all of those things are also true about William Clark Green and the band Dispatch, haha.
I’m not gonna get into protracted flame wars over this stuff, or threaten someone on Twitter for giving either of them a bad review. That shit’s insane.
August 4, 2020 @ 12:00 pm
Nicki Minaj stans also went after Tracy Chapman of all people for her daring to have to temerity to deny Minaj’s thieving ass the sample of her music.
Basically, twitter and most social media is a toxic hellscape right now. Social media can be positive but it’s overwhelmingly horrible right now.
I mean really, going after Tracy Chapman on behalf of Nicki Minaj. We need a plague that targets young people on twitter or something.
August 4, 2020 @ 12:47 pm
The specific actions toward Tracy Chapman were unwarranted, but the core of the frustration doesn’t bother me as much as it does getting mad at critics for giving criticism.
“Fast Car” is one of the most frequently covered songs, and she even seemingly approved that travesty of a Jonas Blue version. So, without having access to the full backstory, it’s understandable why some viewed the Nicki Minaj rejection as personal.
August 5, 2020 @ 9:28 am
British singer Gabrielle had permission denied to use a sample from ‘Fast Car’ on the song ‘Dreams’, back in the early 90s. She had to rework it without the sample, but you can still really tell where it was supposed to go.
So it seems Tracy is rather particular about people sampling her stuff, and it might not be anything personal against Nicki. Cover versions are a different matter. You can’t stop people covering your catalogue,; they don’t need permission, they just have to pay you.
August 5, 2020 @ 9:38 am
I meant to say they have to pay whoever owns the rights to the song. It won’t necessarily be the artist, but it can be. Sampling has different, stricter rules, though, and you need the permission of both the artist and whoever owns the copyright of the song itself (if they are different people).
August 5, 2020 @ 11:14 am
Tracy Chapman is super extra picky and particular about everything. I had a gig writing artist bios for Elektra when she was on the label and she was the record holder for most teeny tiny rewrites back and forth of, well, I don’t like that word. Well, decided I don’t like this sentence after all. Usually you interview artist, do a draft, artist/publicist gives you notes, you make changes, the end. Hers went back and forth like 8 times…
August 6, 2020 @ 4:54 pm
The only allowable sample of “Fast Car” should be Nice and Smooth’s “Sometimes I Rhyme Slow, Sometimes I Rhyme Quick.”
August 4, 2020 @ 12:01 pm
Great article Trigger!
August 4, 2020 @ 12:01 pm
the donald trump example is not an example of stans. it’s an example of people having enough of donald trump’s “leadership”. it’s not like he didn’t review the latest BTS album favorably and they reacted.
“it is what it is.”
August 4, 2020 @ 12:09 pm
No, it’s a very specific example of Stans acting in unison to affect matters expressly outside of the music environment, meaning the concerns of Stan culture are effusive and could begin to influence society in ways well beyond popular music culture. You can root on one side or another. But as soon as Kanye West Stans swing a Presidential election, you might see how troublesome the practice is for everyone.
August 4, 2020 @ 1:19 pm
There’s now a few more comments about this. It’s concerning that this would be people’s takeaway from your article. I didn’t vote for the guy, but far more important to us should be people’s right to attend a political event without sabotage, or in other cases intimidation and physical violence. If you don’t believe in people’s right to vote for who they want to, without harassment – because you don’t like who they vote for – then you don’t really believe in the right to vote. In the same way, if you’re for ok with doxxxing and death threats against people you don’t like, then be ready for it to eventually turn on you.
August 4, 2020 @ 1:33 pm
Exactly. We all must be looking at the bigger picture here. Pop fans who self-identify as being so unhinged with their obsession over a music artist that calling themselves simply “fans” does not do their degree of obsession justice should not be holding sway over political doings. That seems inherently dangerous. Today it might be screwing with a Trump rally. Tomorrow it might be Kanye West (who leans very right) sending out an edict on Twitter, and swaying an election.
August 4, 2020 @ 2:01 pm
He shouldn’t have been having an in-person rally at that time for public health reasons as well.
August 5, 2020 @ 5:33 pm
There was no “sabotage,” haha – anyone was allowed to sign up, which is why they were able to inflate the numbers so much.
Everyone who wanted to go to a rally full of maskless people in the middle of a pandemic was able to do so – the TikTok kids just made his campaign look like idiots, by inflating their projections.
August 4, 2020 @ 2:17 pm
Blaming “stanning” for Trump’s Tulsa debacle is missing a whole bunch of nuance.
Yes, they were K-Pop stans, and that fans of a certain type of music may lean the same political direction is not news.
Ask Lee Greenwood or Toby Keith.
These were just kids doing something that was 100% predictable. I was shaking my head every time Brad Parscale posted a brag about ticket requests in the weeks leading up to Tulsa, because it was obvious what was happening.
I didn’t know it was K-Pop stans, I thought it was Trump supporters signing up as a show of support but never intending to attend.
But I knew 1,000,000 people were not going to show up in person during a potentially deadly pandemic.
There just aren’t that many brave idiots.
I can’t believe I’m defending K-Pop stans, but please don’t lump what they did in with the cowardly little s***’s that make threats or commit violence.
Making anonymous threats of violence is terrorism.
Since my guitar career is still pending, my day job includes me understanding how these things work.
K-Pop stans pranking Brad Parscale (who is considered a grifter in IT circles) is not the same as making death threats to critics of Taylor Swift.
The interwebs are a big messy place, fun in some places, useful in others, more disturbing than you can imagine way in the back, but K-Pop stans are not the same as internet terrorists.
August 4, 2020 @ 2:34 pm
Death threats are almost exclusively empty threats made by basement dwelling cowards that are rarely acted on. They definitely have a chilling effect though and shouldn’t be tolerated. AND actually disrupting a political group’s right of assembly isn’t just some prank against an un-popular-in-the-IT world person.
August 4, 2020 @ 2:41 pm
yeah, how dare those k-pop fans request tickets they had no intention of using. they should have ordered in federal dhs troops to escalate and break up the situation.
August 4, 2020 @ 2:58 pm
Perhaps there’s somewhere in between your mock hyperbole and condoning it.
August 4, 2020 @ 3:40 pm
Jake, no one’s right of assembly was disrupted.
There were never enough people planning on attending to begin with.
My issue is mixing what the stans did, which is not a crime, with actual serious crimes.
I’m done beating this poor horse, but I do appreciate your comments.
August 4, 2020 @ 3:57 pm
Whether or not there was the demand is not the point…the attempt was made to disrupt the event. Something doesn’t have to be illegal to criticize it. Trigger isn’t equating the two “mixed” issues. He’s using that as an example of the power of online groups of stans. Finally, doxing isn’t even necessarily illegal unless the target is an employee of the govt, a juror or witness. So your argument of mixing crimes isn’t necessarily correct. Either way, we can (hopefully) agree that doxing is wrong and attempting to meddle with political assembly is wrong. In some cases, laws might not be broken, but I have no problem standing in opposition to either of those things anyway.
August 4, 2020 @ 2:43 pm
Riff,
Once again, my intent with mentioning the Trump rally in connection to Stanning is that it’s a very specific and verifiable example of Stans influencing society distinctly outside the musical realm, and the concern that it could happen in even more significant ways in the future.
But since you bring up the behavior of K-Pop Stans, I feel compelled to share that when I was researching for this article, I read numerous stories about how K-Pop artists are committing suicide at an alarming rate, and how it’s being specifically tried to the bullying that regularly occurs among K-pop fans bases. There have been MANY suicides in that scene recently, some partially or fully due to toxic fan culture. The safety of artists, the safety of fans, the safety of journalists and industry professionals is all important to this matter. John Lennon, Dimebag Darrell, and others were killed by obsessed fans. Being an obsessed fan with a skewed sense of reality should not be celebrated.
August 4, 2020 @ 3:27 pm
My issue is you’re mixing issues. And I’m not being clear, that’s on me.
Online bullying is a huge problem. Be Best, right? It’s a crime.
Doxxing people and making threats, and in some cases carrying out those threats, is a crime.
What the stans did in Tulsa was apply for free tickets and then not show up.
Unethical, sure, but not a crime.
People get angry because they think it makes Trump look bad. It does not.
It makes Parscale look bad, because anyone else who works with data would have known there was an issue and instead of bragging about how great they are on Twitter would have quietly gone about fixing the issue.
You can make the case the Trump hired Parscale, but since then Parscale has been demoted, which is still a pretty light punishment but punishment all the same, and rightly so.
I appreciate you letting me comment, and thanks for all the great music recommendations.
But in this case, you’re mixing things that are not crimes with crimes.
August 4, 2020 @ 4:33 pm
Stans for musicians banded together to doxx and threaten journalists that wrote reviews.
Stans for musicians banded together to disrupt a political rally.
That’s why it was mentioned. There is no mixing of any issues. They both involve Stans. I never said what the K-Pop fans did in Tulsa was illegal. I never said it was tantamount to death threats and terrorism. It was simply a real world example of Stans banding together to affect life outside of the musical realm, which as I said, COULD at some point in the future rise to a disturbing trend. That’s all that was said.
If you think Trump rally is peripheral to this discussion, I respect that, but respectfully disagree. If you think it’s entirely irrelevant, you are incorrect. This was a discussion about Stans in action.
August 4, 2020 @ 9:47 pm
I remember when Fox News said we needed to fear “The Knockout Game”.
Which no one was playing.
Then it was ISIS training camps on the border!
Which do not exist.
Then it was drug cartels, and here in Arizona our drunken governor Jan “Had Did” said there were “headless bodies in the desert”.
But there were no headless bodies. Brainless living bodies in the Capital, sure, but no beheadings in the Sonoran Desert.
Then it was The Caravan! And there were surely ISIS fighters in The Caravan because of numbers?
But “numbers” do not work that way.
Now I’m supposed to be ascairt’ of K-Pop stans.
Okay. I’m scairt’.
Love the blog when you talk music.
BTW, look it up, Kanye’s “campaign” is being led by some GOP operatives, I assume to siphon off Black voters.
They run fake candidates like that to siphon votes all the time here in Arizona, where we have no headless bodies in the desert.
Just beautiful sunsets and cactus flowers.
August 4, 2020 @ 10:41 pm
Nobody is suggesting that you be afraid of K-pop stans. They were used as an example. Alone, they aren’t much of a threat to anything and I agree… the incompetence of opening that up to the online world like that was staggering. That’s the kind of thing 4Chan trolls have been exploiting for years, just for fun. But why are you so focused on Trump and Fox News? The “stifling of dissent” is an issue far beyond sensationalist Fox News BS and even beyond music stans. Just a few weeks ago prominent centrist, liberal and leftist academics including Noam fucking Chomsky signed a letter protesting the stifling of academic freedom and speech on college campuses, because a similar type of thing is happening there. You can downplay this as something like a Fox News conspiracy all you want, but if you’ve been paying any attention to what’s going on, and if you appreciate living in a society where a journalist, music critic, or a college professor can express their opinion without facing mob intimidation, then maybe Trigger actually has a point in all this. Or maybe not, because Fox News.
August 4, 2020 @ 7:03 pm
Don’t you see? Trigger had to mention how wronged Trump was because a group of like-minded people influenced politics in a tiny way.
But really, I agree with you. “Swaying elections”? I can’t think of a single artist who has enough stans to do that. Artists pretty regularly endorse Democrats, but that doesn’t really affect anything, it seems. It could partially be because stans tend to be young.
Also, let’s not forget that you can make an endless number of accounts on any website, just like any person could sign up for as many “tickets” for Trump’s rally as they could make dummy emails for. It’s highly likely that radical stans are very heavily overrepresented online. Bringing up the Trump rally was Nothing more than a lame attempt at sharing a political opinion while claiming objectivity.
August 4, 2020 @ 7:18 pm
Excellent analysis. Now do why I mentioned the Kanye West run for President on a right wing agenda.
August 4, 2020 @ 2:25 pm
The sitting US president routinely bullies & threatens people (including witnesses during trials)on Twitter,so what’s the big deal???
August 5, 2020 @ 7:32 am
Thank you. I love the Kpop and TikTok kids, they are so smart and ingenious. They give me hope for the future. BTW the Kpop kids also routinely destroy every racist hashtag that tries to go viral on Twitter.
August 7, 2020 @ 5:03 am
Yeah, really smart hahaha. I don’t think there has ever been a generation of kids who has aspired so much to be as dumb as they can be.
August 7, 2020 @ 7:16 am
They screwed up trump’s rally so, he is taking away their TikTok. Except all the kids already got Canadian addresses so it won’t matter. And they will laugh at him. A lot. They are 10 steps ahead of every other generation.
When #whitelivesmatter was supposed to be a viral hashtag, do you know what they got? Endless, and I do mean endless, memes and gifs featuring members of BTS and saying racism is wrong. Totally wrecked it.
Millennials have their hearts in the right place but they are too gentle and sensitive. Zoomers go for the throat and I am so there to watch them destroy all the right wing idiots.
August 7, 2020 @ 1:41 pm
Knowing how to operate a smart phone doesn’t make you smart and to give trump the middle finger these ‘clever’ kids support a silly app that is essentially malware operated by the chinese communist party. The same communist party that has put around a million Uighurs in reeducation camps. The same communist scumbags who have cracked down extremely hard on young HK pro-democracy activists. But hey, that’s ok, we can’t pin that on trump.
White lives matter is not more racist than black lives matter. I would say all lives matter, but I don’t care about the lives of bad people, black/white/red/brown or yellow. People that for instance abuse and throw paint over an elderly woman in Portland or that block roads because they feel they’re entitled to do that.
And when the police finally deals with these clowns, these tough revolutionaries are all up in arms about the ‘fascist state’. I have seen the riot police come in harder at soccer matches and we didn’t complain about it. Politicians thought we deserved to get our heads smashed in anyway, we were no protected class of protesters.
August 7, 2020 @ 2:11 pm
Steven, if you don’t understand why white lives matter is racist I am not gonna explain it to you on a music site.
So, back to music! Have I mentioned how grateful I am to Saving Country Music for turning me on to Jason Isbell? He is awesome! [Smiley face here]
July 10, 2021 @ 6:50 am
“Right wing idiots”
More tolerance from so-called tolerant people.
Leftism is just another word for hypocrisy.
August 4, 2020 @ 12:06 pm
“Society can and does execute its own mandates: and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
Their only power lies in people caving so easily. I know it’s easier said than done, but unless people start standing up to this shit, it’s only going to get worse. Also, fuck the artists who turn a blind eye.
August 4, 2020 @ 12:41 pm
Good lord I didn’t even know this was a thing
August 4, 2020 @ 12:43 pm
— The K-pop reference doesn’t really fit the context of the article. In the Trump situation, you’re talking more about a “demographic” than you are “stans.” It’s not like Donald Trump said, “Vote for me, and I’ll ban those BTS losers from the radio” and then a bunch of BTS fans messed with his rally. Who they support musically may have united them, but it wasn’t the motivation behind their effort.
Yes, it reflects the extent to which certain music fandoms can coordinate their efforts, but that seems unrelated to the real point of your rant here. Because if you want to talk about coordination, then you’d have to get into the fact that these coordinated efforts directly impact sales and streaming performance (which is true, but also opens up a can of worms, because many would say the goal of a commercial artist is to be so resonant that you inspire fans to buy and stream your music like crazy). And that feels like a much bigger/different argument than saying stans are manipulating narratives and silencing criticism.
— As for the core of the article, I see this kind of stan behavior as very unnecessary and self-defeating. For starters, reviews don’t really mean all that much anymore anyway. There are too many factors killing the objectivity of reviews, from the desire to get featured on the artist’s social media, to the desire to get more traffic, to the individual taste of the author. Plus, there aren’t many good music writers out there anyway (the “analysis” you see on sites like Billboard is embarrassing these days) – so getting worked up seems like a particular waste.
But on top of that, if you essentially pressure everyone to give your favorite artist a good review, then you further invalidate these reviews. Making them even LESS worthy of a massive protest or doxxing effort.
August 4, 2020 @ 1:01 pm
Good article Trigger! But the Trump rally example is a stretch. Plus Trump is such a massive criminal he deserves whatever he gets. I am shocked to live in a world where “Nicki Minaj Stans” and ” Shooter Jennings Stans” are a thing. How empty some peoples’ lives must be.
August 4, 2020 @ 1:48 pm
The point of mentioning the Trump rally and Kanye West’s Presidential aspirations is to warn about where this behavior could lead to in a way that isn’t just a bunch of back and forths on Twitter, and empty death threats. Another example could be Kid Rock’s faux run for Congress a few years ago. These kinds of gaming of the American mind could have serious ramifications beyond music. You may think Trump is a “massive criminal,” but with Kanye West’s previous endorsements of him, mobilizing Stan armies could very well work in Trump’s favor the next time, if it hasn’t already.
August 4, 2020 @ 2:23 pm
well I did like your article and thanks for responding
(realized I responded to someone else)
August 4, 2020 @ 3:12 pm
Are you one of those kpop fans I have been reading about?
August 4, 2020 @ 1:12 pm
I think the biggest issue with curbing is behavior is the lack of any accountability, and the issues that can come with determining who should hold them accountable:
The social media platforms? For all of their rhetoric about eliminating “hate speech” this stuff seems to happen awfully frequently. And then you get into some arguments about free speech even though that should be more straightforward where someone’s safety is directly concerned.
Law enforcement? It’s always been determine the credibility of every internet death threat, and with a lot of people using anonymous accounts it becomes even more difficult to identify the source.
The artists? Personally don’t think it’s fair to hold them responsible for other people’s actions, but I think it’s problematic some artists seem to enable this behavior. The unfortunate reality is it’s in artists’ best interests to let this behavior go unchecked so they aren’t going to do anything unless they feel they have to.
Maybe a combination? Hard to imagine anyone taking charge.
August 4, 2020 @ 1:16 pm
Maybe I missed it in the article but are the artists doing anything to try and shut this down or at the very least denouncing it?
August 4, 2020 @ 1:50 pm
Taylor Swift has not said anything publicly about the death threats her Stans sent to Jillian Mapes. In the case of Lana Del Rey, she was the one directing the abuse. So in short, no.
August 4, 2020 @ 1:30 pm
It’s hot and I’m trying to find a lemonade stan nearby.
August 4, 2020 @ 1:35 pm
It would seem that artists could and should step in.
But thats also not easy, when you’re dealing with volatile people, something always goes wrong.
But it also suprises me that anyone uses their real name online. If i was in any way famous, it would be in a fake name, with my address obfuscated and multiple places listed online. Have fun guys.
August 4, 2020 @ 1:55 pm
If you follow the actual narrative of Eminem’s “Stan,” the guy starts out as a superfan, but then turns on Eminem when Eminem doesn’t respond his fan mail. That’s what results in Stan driving his car into a river with his pregnant girlfriend tied up in the trunk. You’re right, artists addressing it could make it messy in some cases. Another concern here is Stans hurting themselves, and others in the process.
August 4, 2020 @ 2:01 pm
Am I totally off base, or is it fair to say that Swift often used her stans to go after and be abusive towards anyone she feels has “wronged” her?
I mean, didn’t they gave to shut down the office for safet of the staff at Big Machine after Swift unleashed her trolls on them?
August 4, 2020 @ 2:53 pm
Good point. Taylor Swift Stans did go after Big Machine, Scott Borchetta, Scooter Braun, et al. Both Borchetta and Braun got doxxed. It’s basically a mafia tactic, with Stan armies as the enforcers. Granted, Swift had a legitimate beef with wanting control of her masters. But instead of negotiating in good faith, she sicked the dogs on these guys. These pop stars wield so much power on social media, it could have massive repercussions on people’s lives, livelihoods, and personal safety. It’s just a matter of time before someone gets killed.
August 4, 2020 @ 1:36 pm
A very simple solution. Ban all these social media outlets. All these outlets have done is make some very obnoxious people very very rich. How did the music stars of the past become successful. Simply through talent. If they did not have talent they got no exposure on radio, tv etc. Somebody like Lil Nas X would never have been heard of. What I have said here is beyond simplistic. A lot of very powerful people have invested heavily in these social media outlets. But ban them. Or send them all into space on the same rocket.
August 4, 2020 @ 1:44 pm
Sounds good Paddy!
Let’s get back to actual talent.
Everyone thinks they deserve a place in the spotlight as a superstar, because they unwrapped a portable karaoke machine one Christmas, when they were 4 or 5 years old
August 4, 2020 @ 2:27 pm
Anyone who lets social media influence their decisions or thought process is no the brightest bulb in the closet- no matter who you vote for.
August 4, 2020 @ 2:42 pm
will admit to being a stan laurel stan and a ralph stanley stan, not necessarily in that order.
August 4, 2020 @ 2:55 pm
You are a stan of Stan?
Bold claim
August 4, 2020 @ 2:46 pm
Stan Culture vs. Cancel Culture
Maren Morris stans wanted to cancel Chris Janson via Twitter last month.
Carrie Underwood stans want to cancel Garth Brooks’ awards….
Most stans are for female artists I’ve noticed. (Carrie, Maren, Miranda, Taylor, etc)
Most Blake stans are TODAY show loyal Karen viewers….
August 4, 2020 @ 2:56 pm
Probably a good idea not to mention Isbell in your article, as he has some of the worst stans known to man.
August 4, 2020 @ 4:03 pm
it’s weird how it’s someone else that brings it up first tho, huh.
August 4, 2020 @ 4:32 pm
Yes we need look no further than any article Trigger writes on The Holy Isbell for an example of stannery.
I remember a positive article that still aroused the anger of the mob because it wasn’t completely glowing.
August 4, 2020 @ 3:11 pm
Today I learned that there is such thing as a “Shooter Jennings stan”.
August 5, 2020 @ 9:55 am
He just posted a joke about trump mispronouncing “Yosemite” yesterday and Lydia Loveless made a sarcastic joke as a comment and his fans ganged up on her over it. He posted a follow up tweet about it. Glad he’s finally figured out that his stans are a bunch of a-holes
August 5, 2020 @ 1:53 pm
This was meant to be a reply to ChrisP above, regarding Jason Isbell, not Shooter
August 5, 2020 @ 5:38 pm
I mean…Jason Isbell has always called assholes assholes, regardless of their preferences.
His willingness to say “Fuck you, you’re being an asshole” to literally anyone is why so many folks get all worked up into a lather about him.
August 4, 2020 @ 3:56 pm
I have never had a Facebook account. I have never had a Twitter account. Likewise for Instagram or any other “social media.”
“Social media” has made the average idiot one meets on the street (and, yes, MOST PEOPLE one meets on the street are idiots) think he’s qualified to opine on any subject he chooses, which, of course, are subjects only idiots choose.
Here’s a news flash for a lot of you: You don’t need social media. Your life will be better without them.
August 4, 2020 @ 6:00 pm
Some of us DO need it, especially now. I personally need it for my work (I write local political commentary). I can’t do my job if I don’t feel know what our County Commissioners, state house and senate reps, local board of education, etc. are saying on social medial. It has become the primary way elected officials communicate with their constituents.
I also have an autoimmune disease and have been in doctor recommended self isolation since mid-March. Without social media, I would be unable to stay connected to my family and friends in the outside world.
Social media is an important and necessary part of MANY people’s life.
Having said that, investing your life so completely into a “standom” is unhealthy.
There’s nothing wrong with social media when it’s used properly. But one thing’s for sure – it causes a lot of heartache and problems.
There’s good and bad with anything. Social media is like all other forms of communication. What it is depends on how it’s used.
August 5, 2020 @ 5:58 am
CeeCeeBee:
I, too, stay connected to my family, friends and business associates, and I do all that without the curse of “social media.” Any elected official who chooses to communicate important matters with his constituents via “social media,” is probably not intelligent enough to hold that elective office in the first place. There are alternative ways to do that, one notable one being having an official website for such communications.
For every good thing you can name concerning social media, I can name at least three bad things about it.
August 5, 2020 @ 7:29 am
“Any elected official who chooses to communicate important matters with his constituents via “social media,” is probably not intelligent enough to hold that elective office in the first place.”
Yeah, that’s a pretty gross generalization. Many municipalities, businesses, organizations, etc. hire people specifically to manage their social media. As much as I hate Twitter, it’s the easiest way to communicate with the public, if only because all the media is obsessed with it. If you need to evacuate a town, you can’t send everyone a fax, or assume they’ll check a website.
August 5, 2020 @ 8:03 am
Trigger:
If one needs to evacuate a town, all that needs to be done is to make an announcement one time on the radio. That announcement should state, “The Dixie Chicks will be performing here tonight.” That announcement and the ensuing, urgent word-of-mouth transmission of the news will lead to a very speedy evacuation of the town by the vast majority of its citizen, leaving only undesirables behind.
August 4, 2020 @ 8:29 pm
this is social media
August 4, 2020 @ 4:09 pm
Dude! That is fucking terrifying. I am so sorry to hear you have been the victim of it yourself. Please tell me these low-lives are being reported to the police?
I would imagine many people being in global lockdown has contributed to people living vicariously online, however it’s no excuse for shitty behaviour.
The super dumb thing about Stans, is someone like Taylor Swift doesn’t need anyone sticking up for her. She has a voice, she has fame and she has a kazillion dollars in her bank account. I’m sure her cats are getting her through the trauma of excellent (but not exemplary) reviews.
August 4, 2020 @ 5:55 pm
I don’t dispute that her “cats” are getting Taylor through the trauma; it’s the way they’re doing it that I have a problem with. And that goes for fans of other artists out who do the same thing . Threatening and demeaning others with whom you disagree is not exactly a great way to defend your “fave”, whether it’s Taylor, or Carrie, or Miranda, or whoever else.
In the case of Taylor’s fans, I can understand their frustrations, even if i don’t agree with some of the methods they’re using to express those frustrations. She has been clobbered on all sides for most of the fourteen years she’s been recording for one thing or another, particularly for her voice (which, in my opinion, is still very problematic, although a bit less so on “Betty”). But as I’ve said, having “Stans” going on the attack as a form of defense is at best wildly counterproductive, and at worst it invites the attacks she’s been getting to escalate. Instead of doing that, maybe they could convince Taylor herself to get better as an artist. To me, it beats the hell out of beating the hell out of one’s critics..
August 4, 2020 @ 6:03 pm
Hey Erik, I wasn’t being cryptic about the ‘cats’ … Taylor posts a lot about her actual pussies on social media! I don’t think her cats have opposable thumbs to post on her behalf but, hey the way 2020 is going so far nothing would surprise me!
August 4, 2020 @ 6:37 pm
One can hope that they don’t. Any kind of bullying, viral or physical, would look, how shall we say, rather ugly (IMHO).
August 4, 2020 @ 7:41 pm
Agree wholeheartedly, Erik. Bullying, violence and threats are never okay under any circumstance. And the fact people get their knickers in a twist over bloody music reviews … jeez. First world problems, people! Peace.
August 4, 2020 @ 5:24 pm
Kyle you do great things on here man. Whether or not I agree with the content you always cover the work you do here is important. Sorry for always freaking the hell out on here a couple years back over certain articles. I got over the super fanning thing I used to do and being an ass on here at times. I try to stay in the background unless I have something important to say. But just want to say your a thoughtful human being and you being real with the ratings is what makes this site different And always leaves me intrested in what you say cause you dont shy away from the stand in the world. Btw If you ever need us to harass someone who’s harassing you just let us know. I’m sure you could raise an internet army if you need it.
August 4, 2020 @ 5:41 pm
Thanks Wes.
August 4, 2020 @ 6:31 pm
Wait “Gunslinger” is a diss track to Trigger? I’m so confused because of the “better keep your eye on my MF trigger finger” line?
August 4, 2020 @ 7:22 pm
Nope it’s not
August 4, 2020 @ 7:23 pm
I don’t know if it is or not, but the people who told me they were going to kill me in my sleep sure believed it was.
August 4, 2020 @ 7:46 pm
That is incredibly effed up. I’ve been reading your site for a long time, post very rarely. I just went back through the archives and saw the references to this. I never really read the stuff about Shooter because I don’t feel too strongly one way or the other about his music. Just damn, social media and the internet allows people to say things they would never say to someone’s face. I have always loved your site to find new music that appeals to me and that whole story is messed up. Thanks for what you do and it’s bs you would ever have to deal with that.
August 4, 2020 @ 8:17 pm
I just went and read that too, as it all happened just before I started reading this site. That was some intense shit, and damn Trigger… that’s what not backing down looks like. Respect.
August 4, 2020 @ 7:05 pm
The internet is un-ravelling the world like a snowball from hell coming down Mt Everest. In fact
the first nuclear war will probably be caused by warring factions on the web.
August 4, 2020 @ 7:18 pm
Really, most social media should just be banned. And a good part of the internet. And I am not being facetious.
August 4, 2020 @ 7:37 pm
The article explained the whole ‘stan culture’ for me.
I had to Google ‘K-pop’.
I’m too old for this sh*t.
“Music was my refuge. I could crawl into the space between the notes and curl my back to loneliness.”
—Maya Angelou
August 4, 2020 @ 9:02 pm
I did too.
August 4, 2020 @ 7:44 pm
Thanks for this article Trig. I’ve never paid attention to this culture but the article and the comments are super interesting; and I don’t know how far this can go but you point out some serious ramifications. It would be cool to see someone do a documentary on this where they can interview self proclaimed Stans and people who have been victims of stan culture. It would be interesting to see how far people are willing to take internet threats or how much they would blindly follow the suggestions of the celebrities they love.
August 4, 2020 @ 9:41 pm
Lol I guess I’m a “Stan” for this website. Keep it up trigger
August 4, 2020 @ 10:35 pm
Just looked up the lyrics to The Gunslinger.
What a lame ass song
August 4, 2020 @ 11:41 pm
i’ve seen this happen many times and it always fascinates me that people can get so worked up over things, that they take to the internet and write long, crazy rants threatening with death, rape & violence over something that’s essentially trivial.
but i disagree with you on one point trig: these loonies are not stan’s, they’re plain old trolls.
every troll has a favorite cause that also works as a catalyst that throws them into a blind rage, spewing out profanities & threats. the best one can do is to remember “don’t feed the trolls”, because you can’t argue with crazy.
August 5, 2020 @ 1:12 am
I can’t stand stan culture. I enjoy singers who have fan bases who seems to be at each other throats. Stans don’t like for you to criticize even as fan. They are very toxic. Taylor gets treated well by critics. Everyone gets hate from all sides when having mainstream career. . Being anonymous over internet helps with the crazy behavior.
August 5, 2020 @ 5:53 am
Strange times, these
August 5, 2020 @ 12:04 pm
The funniest thing about these Stans is the commentary when the artist puts out a new song or album. Every song is going to SLAY, every performance the artist SLAYED, the album is LEGENDARY and is going to break ALL the records and it has only been out for two days lol.
They can not discern between the artist as a celebrity and the integrity of the music. They are too wrapped up in the musicians personal life because more and more is being unveiled on social media to keep relevant. They know extended family names, pets names and with TS they know her flight path. WHAT???
Taylor knew what she was doing asking her fans to ‘support’ her in the BM debacle, she knew what they are capable of. She is well aware of what they are doing. shame on her. They see her bullying other artists (Katy Perry) and now they do the same thing.
Carrie stans are mean and vindictive. I have seen it on multiple social media platforms. Christ, anytime Faith Hill is mentioned they bring up the ‘incident’ against Carrie that happened over 10 years ago…..10 years….how does one even REMEMBER that shit???
If an artist puts out a shit song most of us can admit its a shit song. That’s how you know your not a STAN!
August 5, 2020 @ 12:33 pm
And all the EPIC SLAYING will be done by QUEENS and sometimes KINGS, most commonly prefaced by a YASS!! I’ve spent as minimal time as possible looking at this but it only took a minute to notice the “sound“ of mindless drones all repeating the same talking points and hyperbolic vernacular.
All that is fine, it’s still sort of a free country…it’s when they venture out into the real world and try to infect us with their hive mind bullshit that we should all have a problem. Unfortunately, as illustrated in many comments here, there’s enough people to downplay it or take a tribal position, that it’s just going to get worse.
August 5, 2020 @ 12:22 pm
Thanks for this, Trigger. A great, insightful article, and another example of why this site is one of the best going, not just in country music but all of music. Hope that’s not too “Stan” of me to say.
Side note about Pitchfork. Those guys have wielded huge power in music since the early 00’s (probably a lot less so now, though) and have always played with fire, behaving as “Stans” for and against artists – essentially making and breaking artists with a single review.
For example, from the mid-90’s to the early-00’s, my hometown of DC had a great indie rock band called The Dismemberment Plan. I saw ’em dozens of times live. Good group of guys too. They put out four classic albums, acclaimed and beloved by critics and fans alike. Until in 2003 the band decided to split up, amicably. Pitchfork staff, who’d previously given the band consistently glowing coverage, took it hard and turned on them.
When the band’s lead singer and founder, Travis Morrison, decided to release his debut solo album a year later in 2004, Pitchfork tore the album to shreds in a snarky pre-release review, giving it a rare “0.0” score. Upon reading the scathing review, record store buyers everywhere apparently cancelled their orders of the album, essentially tanking it before it hit the shelves, ending the artist’s solo career overnight.
There have been a bunch of interesting postmortems and analysis written about what happened. Just Google “Travistan” and “Pitchfork”.
Pitchfork did that sort of spiteful shit sixteen years ago, then they did a 180 and bought into the whole “poptimism/monogenre” thing, putting most of their glowing coverage behind top-40 pop stars like Minaj, Swift, Beyonce etc. They made their bed, so they’ll lie in it. Fuck them.
August 5, 2020 @ 1:31 pm
Damn. I was actually thinking about this. Not Travistan specifically, but about their general bullshit and embrace of the pop star crowd.(Dismemberment were great, as a side note).
While I think it’s still worth addressing an attack on a journalist, because it’s not just going to be isolated against Pitchfork, in a way I also agree with you. I definitely noticed their transition from hipster snobs to mainstream pop kowtowing sensationalist activist Condé Nast hucksters. I never liked them to begin with but now they’re insufferable. Kind of like my view of mainstream country… it’s tempting to say let them wallow in their own shit.
August 5, 2020 @ 2:04 pm
Don’t get me wrong, this doxing phenomenon (along with cancel culture), is insane and nobody deserves that. I do commiserate with that journalist, and it’s clear none of what happened was warranted or deserved. We’re living in weird, frankly very frightening, times.
August 5, 2020 @ 2:09 pm
Be a fan, not a fanatic. Social media has made too many people assholes.
August 5, 2020 @ 6:42 pm
Back in the day, we were dealing with healthier forms of social interaction, like cholera.
I guess whatever can be monetized will sooner or later be weaponized.
Glad I’m not in it.
August 6, 2020 @ 8:30 am
Biden has Stans but since he thinks it is 1920, as such, his stans are burning up the telegraph lines.
August 7, 2020 @ 1:52 pm
His stans are more diverse than the black community, but not so much the hispanic community.
August 7, 2020 @ 2:12 pm
Steven,
Let’s please not veer into politics here. It just results in back and forths that are unhelpful and ugly. Thanks!
August 7, 2020 @ 2:25 pm
Ok, then I’m sorry for my previous post, which was exactly the back and forth you mention.
August 15, 2020 @ 1:36 pm
It’s a disturbing age we live in, and I think in some ways, stanning is another example of self-appointed thought police trying to disallow freedom of speech, in this case a music reviewer’s freedom to write an opinion piece that reflects — Shock! Horror! — their own personal opinion. I think, too, there’s a degree of “The Emperor has no clothes” to this situation in that a lot of this music is just plain bad, but we’re not meant to say so.