There Should Be No Shame For Musicians Who Took PPP Loans
This story has been updated.
We live in the age of shame. Fueled by social media, everybody wants to point an ugly finger at others for being morally inferior to themselves, often to hide from their own mistakes and shortcomings. If there’s someone out there that’s worse than you, then you can’t be all that bad. But by focusing on the inequities of others, you avoid addressing your own.
There should be no shame in major music outfits taking money through the government’s Paycheck Protection Program, or PPP, to keep their road crew and support staff financially stable, despite it being characterized as the cash grab of millionaires by some, aided by certain embellished and misleading headlines in the media.
On Monday, July 6th, the Small Business Administration and Treasury Department released the names of the entities that have received small business loans under the $2 trillion CARES Act passed by the United States Congress in April, which included the Paycheck Protection Program.
In the list of names published by Rolling Stone, Pitchfork, and others, there were many major music franchises, including The Eagles, Green Day, Guns N’ Roses, Tool, Nickelback, Pearl Jam, Weezer, Imagine Dragons, Incubus, Slipknot, My Chemical Romance, Cheap Trick, The Chainsmokers, Wiz Khalifa, French Montana, and Papa Roach.
In the country and roots world, numerous artists applied for and received PPP loans as well, including Luke Combs, Tim McGraw, Rascal Flatts, Chris Stapleton, Kip Moore, Chase Rice, Gary Allan, Cody Johnson, Wilco, Gary Clark Jr., and Jason Isbell.
Though each loan varies in size, the loans range from at least $150,000, to around $350,000 on average, with some loans reaching as much as $2 to $5 million. But this is not money going directly to the pockets of the respective musicians named in media reports. It is going to their road crews and support staff. In most cases, even though it’s the names of the artists themselves being reported, it’s actually their touring companies who are receiving the loans.
These are loans, not grants. However under the PPP program, if the loan recipient can prove the money was used to support employees during the COVID-19 shutdown, portions or the entirety of the loan can be forgiven. The philosophy behind the PPP program is simple: instead of companies (or in this case bands) being forced to lay off employees who will end up on unemployment rolls and taking government assistance anyway, it’s better to keep them under the umbrella of their current employer, so when the economy is able to open back up in full, they are able to restart business without having to go through the hiring process again, while employees can also continue to receive health benefits and remain financially stable.
However that has not kept some from criticizing the loans taken out by more wealthier entities. When it was revealed that companies like Shake Shack and The Los Angeles Lakers had taken out loans through PPP, public pressure mounted for them to give the money back, which they did. At that time, the amount of funds appropriated by Congress for the program was finite, and it did run out for a short period before more money was allocated.
The ethical argument is whether entities applying for PPP loans are wealthy and stable enough to sustain payroll through the shutdown without government assistance. But what makes the music business unique is it was one of the very first industries to be shut down, and it will be one of the last to open back up. Shake Shack can still offer drive-thru service and limited seating in some locations. The NBA is set to resume their season on July 30th, though under limited conditions, and with no crowds.
Meanwhile music acts have little to no options at all, aside from streaming concerts whose best application is to raise money for charity. And even if a well-known artist plays a ticketed streaming event, this does nothing to help their road crew. The music industry professionals who’ve been left out in the cold the most have been the side players and tour personnel, of which most of these PPP loans will go to support. The Eagles alone were able to support a crew of 50 people through their particular loan. Cody Johnson was able to retain 17 employees through his loan.
The real concern should be if there were smaller acts who applied for these loans, and did not receive support because it had already been siphoned to massive stadium acts like The Eagles and Green Day. However due to the refilling of the PPP program, if a band did not receive a loan, it’s likely because they either did not apply, did not apply quickly enough, or did not have their paperwork together.
Yes, it perhaps would have been more cool if some of the artists listed as PPP beneficiaries could have reached into their own pockets to backstop payroll in a sign of solidarity with their workers. Some did this very thing, like Florida Georgia Line. But it’s the government’s fault they aren’t working, not the artists. The reason for the PPP program was to disincentivize economic activity deemed dangerous in the COVID-19 epidemic.
This is the same reason more independent artists without an incorporated status should not feel shame for applying for unemployment benefits, which in many locations have been extended to gig economy workers. It’s not the fault of these musicians they’re not working. It’s not an issue of laziness. It’s the government that has put them in financial distress, so therefore the government should help them through this unprecedented hardship.
However there are still some in music—perhaps especially in country music—who are philosophically opposed to taking any government assistance, no matter the circumstance. And perhaps some major artists are in a position to support their staff without PPP assistance, and didn’t want to take the chance of poor publicity by applying for a loan. Some laid off their crews anyhow, like Zac Brown, though Zac Brown did receive a PPP loan for his Camp Southern Ground charity camp.
When Chase Rice and Chris Janson were criticized for playing shows recently, Jason Isbell said on Twitter, “Boy y’all really throwing the term ‘country star’ around today. It’s like the adult film industry, they aren’t all ‘stars.’ Hell, some are so broke they’ve decided to do shows this weekend regardless of what might happen to their non-isolated, maskless audience!”
There’s no defending these artists for allowing fans to rush the stage and not postponing the show until they returned to a socially distanced environment as the organizers and venues had intended. However it’s easy to criticize others for playing shows to survive when you received government assistance.
But no matter how any artist chose to approach the COVID-19 shutdown, there should be no shame for wanting to take care of your employees through government-backed loans offered for that very purpose. This is an unprecedented moment in the music industry, and forced into a corner, everyone did what they felt was best to keep themselves and their music families secure and safe.
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Editor’s Note: This story was updated to reflect that Chase Rice, Gary Allan, and Cody Johnson also received PPP funds.
seak
July 8, 2020 @ 11:12 am
I don’t have a problem with musicians who took out the loan to pay their band though. My issue is with the large corporations who used loopholes to take money meant for small business. On the other hand, Lebron’s small production company qualified for, applied for, and received a PPP, but it sent the money back (and Lebron floated the company). It’s not a requirement, but it was still a nice move.
The bigger issue, is the time limit. If you’re a live music venue, you’re probably not re-opening for a while. So a loan that you have to spend in 8 weeks, isn’t going to cover you for the next 8 months. Also in a lot of cities, rent makes up more then 25% of your monthly cost.
Mike W.
July 8, 2020 @ 11:27 am
The PPP can now be used over 24 weeks and 40% of the loan can be used on non-payroll expenses.
I have no issue with bands doing this, but the PPP was and is a poorly managed program.
Trigger
July 8, 2020 @ 12:17 pm
Any government program like this that is thrown together hastily and is built to be easily accessible is going to be fraught with fraud and waste. You have to know that going in.
Mike W.
July 8, 2020 @ 12:30 pm
Oh sure. I work in government (non Federal) so I get all that. I think the PPP was worse because Ludlow, Munchin and Ross are the last 3 guys I trust leading this effort. The smell of Wall Street and all that…
seak
July 8, 2020 @ 12:47 pm
The reality of most government programs is that the amount (in dollars) of fraud, is less then we spend on trying to catch people committing fraud. The big money is from the larger corporations/people that have hired lawyers to legally commit scams, and the smaller people who do it, the money doesn’t add up to much (as a percentage).
Erikstein
July 9, 2020 @ 10:40 am
“It’s the government that has put them in financial distress”?It is the reality of a pandemic that is the cause.one handled so badly and irresponsibly its out of control.What yet hadn’t been mentioned is the Trump administration wanted no oversight so they could all share in the thieving.that is the real problem
seak
July 8, 2020 @ 12:42 pm
Glad they changed the requirements. Washington post ran a story today looking at music clubs in Virginia/DC, and detailing the reality that many may be looking at closing permanently without additional gov’t help.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/goingoutguide/music/as-indoor-concerts-slowly-return-music-venues-wonder-what-the-future-holds/2020/07/07/a6765a46-bbe5-11ea-80b9-40ece9a701dc_story.html
Cool Lester Smooth
July 8, 2020 @ 12:44 pm
The initial wave took out The Great Scott in Boston, and the landlords used it as an opportunity to switch tenants, rather than letting anyone buy it out.
(The whole area crowdfunded enough to keep it going :/ – didn’t matter to them).
Mike W.
July 8, 2020 @ 3:48 pm
The issue with this (and it faces many bars as well) is that we really have no end date of when COVID-19 will be gone and/or people will feel comfortable going to a concert again. It could be 2-3 years before things are back to some level of normalcy.
From an economic standpoint, we really need to have a tough, but fair, discussion on how much these music venues and bars are worth. Are they worth subsidizing for 2-3 years? I don’t know the answer to that, but it seems to be a discussion we should have. The President may want things to be back to normal ASAP, but that ain’t happening.
While I hate to see venues close and bars close, the reality is it may be a very, very, very long time (in business time) before these are viable again. Sad, but true.
liza
July 9, 2020 @ 7:22 pm
Non-payroll expenses include health insurance, life insurance, rent, utilities, property insurance, taxes. So what? When a business loses its income stream, those overhead costs are what makes them go under causing permanent job loss. If the money didn’t go to payroll expenses through the PPP, the costs would have been felt in unemployment and medicaid.
Heather
December 26, 2024 @ 6:51 pm
Totally disagree. People like McGraw and Combs are wealthy enough to have paid their band themeselved. I find it truly disgusting.
Adam Gump
July 8, 2020 @ 11:28 am
you’re telling me that if Tim McGraw took one of these loans that it is not negligence on his part to not have the money to make it through this? His net earnings in his career, net worth, wife’s net earnings and worth… isn’t the money better off being used on people who make the average man’s money like $35,000-$100,000 a year? our grandchildren’s grandchildren will be paying off this COVID mess, there is no need for most of these musicians to be taking out loans, it just shows that they have lived like they earn instead of living high on the hog and putting money back they are just living as high as they can? I know people personally who missed two months of work from owning small businesses, did not take out a loan and are now back open and doing okay….they made it by being responsible and saving up what little they could through the years. These guys have either lived too high or are simply taking advantage of extra income. How can you justify this being okay to the average person like you an I? Forced into a corner? Tim McGraw should have enough in the bank to take care of employees for years. There are millions of everyday people making things work so why could you justify someone as fortunate as Tim McGraw taking a government loan?
Brian
July 8, 2020 @ 12:19 pm
I would say that Tim McGraw does not directly pay anybody that works for him and probably is not even involved in any aspect of payroll. The company that represents Tim McGraw probably took the loan out, because they had payroll demands that needed to be met, something an artist this big would have absolutely nothing to do with. I think where things could be questioned is if someone found out that loans were taken and pocketed directly by the company or artist and not to any of the employees who need it most. I have not heard of anything like that happening with these guys.
Zach
July 8, 2020 @ 12:23 pm
I guess I don’t see the virtue in small business and individuals forgoing government money designed to help in situations like this. It’s what we pay taxes for. If taking the PPP money would have made your friends’ businesses more sound, why didn’t they do it? Huge corporations for sure feel no shame over the government assistance they regularly get, during a pandemic or not
Cool Lester Smooth
July 8, 2020 @ 12:33 pm
I mean…did your friends keep their entire staff on payroll, with full benefits, out of their own pockets?
Or did they stay afloat by laying everyone off, then rehiring them once they could reopen?
If it was the second one…they should have taken the loan.
Adam Gump
July 8, 2020 @ 12:37 pm
first one. very proud of her, she runs a pet grooming business and has 8 employees.
Cool Lester Smooth
July 8, 2020 @ 12:43 pm
Fair play to her!
At the same time, there would have been no shame in taking out a loan – that’s part of why she pays taxes, after all!
Adam Gump
July 8, 2020 @ 12:46 pm
but, paying off national debt and improving our info structural, or housing more homeless veterans, etc…there just seems to be so many more better ways to use tax payer money.
Zach
July 8, 2020 @ 1:07 pm
I can’t help but strongly disagree, again, with the sentiment against taking the loan. Sounds like your friend took a huge, if not devastating, hit to her personal finances. Besides harming her, does it not also make her business and therefore her employees jobs less secure?
I’m sure you’ve seen the headlines about Jeff Bezos’ net worth increasing $19 billion or whatever absurd amount during the pandemic. How many tax concessions has Amazon received over the years? If we want to pay off our national debt or house more veterans that’s where I would start looking. There’s no reason small business owners and regular individuals should have to bear the brunt of every economic disaster. Especially not voluntarily
Trigger
July 8, 2020 @ 12:36 pm
First off, Tim McGraw did not take out a loan. Nor did The Eagles, Green Day, Chris Stapleton, or anyone else. This is a very important point that I tried to underscore in the article, and is what is leading to much confusion, and anger. An incorporated business autonomous from any artist that manages their touring operation and has many employees who depend on that job for income, health insurance, and other benefits took out these loans in lieu of laying these employees off, and in accordance with the wishes of the government who saw it as beneficial to everyone to use current employers to continue to pay out-of-work employees as opposed to having them land in the unemployment or welfare line.
Could artists like Tim McGraw pay those employees out-of-pocket? Sure he could. Would it be a distinguishing mark of character if he did? I would definitely think so. And that’s why I think it is important that the public know who took out PPP loans, and who didn’t. That was one of my motivations for posting this article.
But if the government is going to demand people like Tim McGraw can’t work, which in turn means the dozens of people he employs can’t work, then I think it’s fair these individuals are taken care of through a government program. Tim McGraw could have laid them off and they could have sought unemployment. But that would have been more difficult for everyone involved. He could have just continued to pay them too. But the PPP program was specifically designed to help in this very scenario, and I’m not going to fault anyone for taking advantage of it, as long as they’re qualified. It’s not the artist’s fault.
ExcitedSouthnr
July 8, 2020 @ 3:13 pm
At the begining of this comment you say that Tim McGraw is not personally responsible for his employees, but that they work for his management company not him. But at the end of this comment you say that he could lay them off but didn’t. Just need some clarification.
Trigger
July 8, 2020 @ 4:22 pm
I don’t know the intimate details of Tim McGraw’s business, and every artist’s touring business is structured differently. What I do know is that Tim McGraw didn’t apply for a loan, it was the company that manages his tours. Could Tim McGraw take money out of his pocket and pay the people who work on his tours directly? Of course he could, and I even will go as far as to say it’s my personal opinion that he should have. But unless the company that is set up to manage Tim McGraw’s tours can prove that the majority of the money that company received from the loan goes directly to the payroll of non-working employees, that company will have to pay that money back.
The Paycheck Protection Program was specifically set up to backstop small businesses, like the ones that operate the tours of artists big and small. There is nothing unethical about taking that money.
Heather
December 26, 2024 @ 6:53 pm
Exactly. To add insult to injury of the working class, MCgraw is the most overrated, pretend musician and singer. He’s an actor at best pretending to be a singer. He’s the Milli Vanilli of country music and he could afford to pay them himself.!
barry deckard
July 8, 2020 @ 12:05 pm
Don Henley net worth 200 million Tim Mcgraw 85 million.
Trigger
July 8, 2020 @ 12:39 pm
How much is the net worth of one of their roadies who will actually receive the PPP funds? That’s the question.
John Falco
July 10, 2020 @ 12:01 pm
Net worth of Eagles roadies is not bad actually versus roadies of other massive brands/bands. Each Eagles roadie gets given gifts of handwritten lyrics, guitars and gear, etc.
Plus they are among the highest paid in the industry so while the above is slightly tongue in cheek in that they can’t live off autographs and old gear but their pay is massive high as the situation with the Eagles is that they like familiarity and trust.
They’d rather pay someone triple and have the security of knowing their surroundings than experience constant churn from tour to tour.
Trigger
July 10, 2020 @ 12:16 pm
Okay, then how about Papa Roach? The point is the money is not going to the names on the marquee. It’s going to their road crew.
Bob Loblaw
July 9, 2020 @ 12:27 pm
Net worth does not = liquid cash on hand. I’m sure they both could have afforded to pay the employees of their touring companies, but it’s not like Tim Mcgraw is sitting on a mountain of 85 million dollar bills.
Zach
July 8, 2020 @ 12:15 pm
I guess the question is, if Chris Janson and Chase Rice didn’t get PPP loans, why not? Keeping small operations afloat is what the program was designed to do. It was a PPP loan that kept me working towards the beginning of the shutdown. The program for sure isn’t perfect but it’s a big step up from nothing
Cool Lester Smooth
July 8, 2020 @ 12:39 pm
Yup – WCG and his guys caught COVID, because they started playing shows again as soon as humanly possible, so he could keep paying his crew.
Take the loan.
Ian
July 8, 2020 @ 12:33 pm
I’m sure some of these A list acts are scamming, and some aren’t. There is a deluge of information these days and making sense of it is a bitch for experts, let alone metal fabricating songwriter flunkys like myself. At least I’m not so freshly rolled from the turnip truck that I believe in QAnon.
Normal Street
July 8, 2020 @ 12:54 pm
An artist’s net worth isn’t necessarily an indication of how much money they have instant access to. An individual may have much of their worth tied up in things like property, which would take time to sell and get access to the money. That is no good to employees as they need paying now. Sure, the likes of McGraw may have a bit of ready money floating around (certainly more than the average person), enough pay some employees, but paying some and not others would be a discrimination lawsuit waiting to happen.
I don’t see the problem in any musicians/their companies taking one of these loans, because it is after all just that. A LOAN. It isn’t like they are just being given the money.
CountryKnight
July 8, 2020 @ 3:17 pm
People don’t understand that net worth doesn’t mean cash on hand.
The same issue popped up on social media after MLB teams cut filler minor league players.
“The owner/team is worth 1.2 billion dollars!!”
OK, they are but that doesn’t mean their bank accounts have that lump sum.
Mike W.
July 8, 2020 @ 3:57 pm
Stop. Defending. Billionaires.
They don’t care about you and you will never be one of them. And yes, the owner of the Cubs may not have 1.2 Billion dollars on hand, but he can happily call up his banker and ask for a loan to pay his employees and the bank would trip over themselves to keep him happy.
Joe’s Bar can’t do that, I can’t do that, and you probably can’t do that. People like the Ricketts family or Tim McGraw can. Let’s stop letting them off the hook by trying to project our circumstances on their reality.
Cool Lester Smooth
July 9, 2020 @ 8:30 am
I wouldn’t even put McGraw in the same sentence as the Ricketts family.
The MLB owners are, by and large, punks who have contributed nothing to society beyond being born with rich parents.
John Henry’s one of the few who are self-made…and he made his money by being really good at making money.
Mike W.
July 9, 2020 @ 12:59 pm
Agreed that McGraw is better than any MLB owner (hell about the only pro sports owner who doesn’t consistently come off as the devil is Shad Khan). I’m just constantly blow away how people will repeat the falsehood that MLB owners couldn’t afford NOT to lay off or fire employees because they somehow struggle to have access to working capital.
Get. Real.
Dee Manning
July 8, 2020 @ 1:03 pm
It depends on whether they really needed it or not. For instance, Kanye West took one when his wife is literally a billionaire. Taking the loan deprives smaller, more desperate businesses of the money, so if a superstar musician could possibly afford to keep crew and band on payroll themselves, they should have done that.
Trigger
July 8, 2020 @ 1:19 pm
If there was a band or bands that were turned down for PPP loans while bigger bands were approved, then I agree, that would be terrible. If there was that story to tell, I would tell it. I’m not saying it didn’t happen, but I haven’t heard anything about that, aside from some delays as more funds were being appropriated for the program by Congress. As I said in the article, this is definitely a concern. But we can’t take it as a given that this happened. From my understanding, if you applied for a loan and met the basic qualifications, you got it.
Dee Manning
July 8, 2020 @ 2:07 pm
It’s my overall impression that small businesses went through chaos and hell to get the loans while big businesses with connections snagged them right away. The amount of money available is finite. So, don’t know specifically about musicians that didn’t get a loan, but will bet you $$ that was the case for a lot of worthy mom and pop businesses that were barely hanging on.
Mike W.
July 8, 2020 @ 4:07 pm
That’s because the big banks skewed the system. The banks didn’t want their biggest customers to go under (or they would be SOL), so many of them essentially told their clients to apply for them and prioritized big clients over small clients. I think this has been reported on, but I can tell you as someone working in Economic Development I saw this happen first-hand in March & April.
liza
July 9, 2020 @ 7:36 pm
They have a ton of money left – $120 billion. What was allocated wasn’t used by any stretch, so I don’t think anyone who needed and qualified for a PPP didn’t get one.
DJ
July 8, 2020 @ 1:31 pm
The media created this mess, because Trump (and NO I’m not a Trump supporter, I thoroughly despise BOTH sides of the Duopoly Party)- godvernment is taking advantage of it by “allowing” banks to fund it with loans paid for by user fees (taxes) with more money created from thin air, which devalues (hidden tax) what you have- the amount/numbers is really irrelevant at this point- the debt(s) incurred by godvernment Borrow to Spend monetary policy is into infinity now- what’s a few bazillion dollars amongst friends?
Hell, lets just give everyone a bazillion dollars- 1200 bucks at a time- I mean why not? It’s only fiat money anyway. Right? It’s only worth what the central bank says it’s worth-
Anyone who trusts the godvernment to not lie, or the media, to not lie needs to have their head examined I don’t care what “industry” he’s employed by-
Keep voting Demopublican or Republicrat- and remember what Einstein is credited with saying- doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is crazy.
Jimmy
July 8, 2020 @ 4:00 pm
Orange man bad. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Yawn.
Blackh4t
July 8, 2020 @ 10:08 pm
People have quoted that Einstein line to me many times over and they always seem to expect me to care. I think they proved themselves as a definition of insanity?
DJ
July 9, 2020 @ 5:45 am
Wow! That changes everything!
Kenny M
July 8, 2020 @ 2:19 pm
The opening paragraph is brilliant. May I post it on Facebook?
Trigger
July 8, 2020 @ 2:44 pm
Post away.
Trigger
July 8, 2020 @ 3:09 pm
Just a quick note, I was able to run down info on more artists that have received loans through PPP, namely Cody Johnson, Gary Allan, and Chase Rice, who’s a pretty relevant name to the topic. Apparently he took the money, and was trying to play shows.
Mike W.
July 8, 2020 @ 3:53 pm
I wouldn’t be shocked if Janson got it as well. Chase Rice better save his money cause that guy (and Janson) are going to be untouchable for many promoters for at least a couple months to year. I know of at least one festival in my neck of the woods that was still trying to go forward with it in mid-August, but pulled the plug once they saw the reaction to the Rice/Janson fiasco.
And if Janson got a PPP loan, I would argue that is even worse considering the dude tried to milk the anti-lockdown sentiment for some dollars by releasing a hack song about demanding things reopen (while sucking on the government teat). Ah, hypocrisy…
Leroy Kenneth Wayne Sheppard
July 8, 2020 @ 8:35 pm
Trigger, Please remove your tongue from Sturgills taint. Thanks
Trigger
July 8, 2020 @ 8:42 pm
Not following.
Jimmy
July 8, 2020 @ 4:07 pm
Guns N’ Roses (Inc.) has pulled down close to a half billion $$$ during their endless Not In This Lifetime fake reunion tour. If you’re making that kind of money, you can look after your staff without taking a loan.
And this idea that the bands and artists themselves know nothing about this is bullshit. Guys like Don “I Invented Music” Henley and Axl “I Am GN’R” Rose are classic control freaks. They know every last detail, and have their hands in everything.
I agree with smaller acts using taking these loans, however.
Trigger
July 8, 2020 @ 4:28 pm
“And this idea that the bands and artists themselves know nothing about this is bullshit.”
I’m not seeing anyone say this. But if they are, that would probably be bullshit.
liza
July 9, 2020 @ 7:45 pm
Well really, Jimmy, if you feel that way then we should all take a percentage of our net worth and income and support the families of those less fortunate than us. One big United Commune of America.
Riff
July 8, 2020 @ 5:11 pm
Turns out all the essential jobs in America are low or minimum wage.
Huh.
I see lots of musicians doing charity shows/sessions to raise money for their own tour and concession workers, for local venues and their staff.
Good for them. And take the PPP, we’re in a new environment and people need to eat while we figure things out.
Eric
July 8, 2020 @ 5:33 pm
Yup.
Hopefully, a long-term consequence of this situation will be a reduction in socioeconomic elitism and a greater appreciation for the working class.
Mike W.
July 9, 2020 @ 7:27 am
I wouldn’t hold your breath. If this recession plays out anything like the 08/09 one, the big boys will only get bigger. Bezos and the Walton family are likely licking their lips in anticipation of how main street is going to look at the end of this. That is unless we get significant government help, but I hate to break it to people, but both Trump and Biden care more about making Wall Street happy than they care about doing anything for the working class/main street.
Eric
July 9, 2020 @ 12:23 pm
I don’t want to discuss politics here, but there is a very clear difference between Trump and Biden when it comes to Wall Street vs. the working class. Only one of them spends all his time focusing on the stock market, while trying to rip away basic life-giving services from the working class.
I was a strong Sanders supporter, but Biden is clearly moving in the right direction, especially in light of the newly released Biden-Sanders task force plans. In any case, Biden is light years more economically populist than the version of Trump we have seen as president.
Mike W.
July 9, 2020 @ 12:55 pm
Agreed to an extent. I remain cynical that whatever “progressive” accolades Biden is trying to win, will be thrown out the window once he gets in office. It happened under Obama, where progressive campaign promises quickly got thrown out the window once he took control of the Oval Office. I don’t disagree that Biden would be better for the poor and working class than Trump, but I remain skeptical that any President (red or blue) really gives a crap about rural America, small businesses, and the working class.
Eric
July 9, 2020 @ 1:12 pm
I think the best strategy is for the grassroots to keep pushing the Democratic Party. I am very hopeful based on what is happening in the congressional primaries.
If the elected officials fear the political power of the base, then their attitudes will adjust accordingly.
Eric
July 8, 2020 @ 5:32 pm
I agree with this article. The shaming should be reserved for those who take the PPP funds and still lay off people.
It would have been nice if the original Wall Street bailouts had strings like this attached: You only get the money if you use it to forgive homeowners’ loans and continue lending to small businesses.
wayne
July 8, 2020 @ 5:37 pm
I work in finance and have actually taught said subject in universities.
There are several posts here explaining how things work. In aggregate, there are elements of truth in most of the posts.
It’s not the same for every artist and finance/business arrangements can vary between them. Usually it depends on how “big” the artist is that determines the management, finance, etc.
But I think it a a problem of perception concerning two areas:
1. Many see multi-million dollar artists receive these loans for the underlying businesses and wonder why.
2. And secondly, possibly just as important, the music business is not perceived by some as essential. Mostly, people choose their careers and music artists are perceived as pursuing their dreams and that is not put on the same level as Joe Dinner-Bucket.
Not saying right or wrong, but it is a perception thing. You can make numbers confirm any argument. But is is perception. And right or wrong, that is reality nowadays.
Billy Wayne Ruddick
July 8, 2020 @ 6:48 pm
The program was by design intended to get money to businesses (based on amount of folks on payroll) quickly and without any due diligence performed on the actual need of the business. There is still money left to go around, so I’m not too concerned that there were a ton of small businesses crowded out. But, it is true that businesses with good relationships with the SBA lending departments at more established banks had a bit of a leg up in application process, mainly through access to loan officers to guide the process and the fact that a lot of smaller banks took weeks to get their application portals up and running.
One issue I have with the program is that there wasn’t more of a test that would first let companies in industries who were hardest hit get access. Touring music acts would definitely fall into that. Law firms, investment advisors, and a lot of other industries that took PPP loans are more questionable. Loans over $2 million are subject to potential future audit to determine if companies taking them actually needed them, which is a good thing.
Blackh4t
July 8, 2020 @ 10:14 pm
I like the idea that its a loan, which might get forgiven if you do the right thing. I.e. get the cash out quickly and argue about it when we know more.
Over here in Australia after the fires we just had it splashed around with a vague threat of maybe being audited if you were really obviously scamming it.
Give it a few months and then we can tell Tim McGraw to pay it back because it was a loan.
Convict charlie
July 9, 2020 @ 5:58 am
You can tell that most folks here have no idea what it takes to go on tour and how many people they support. There’s so many intricacies of being a musician and it takes many people to make it all work. The smallest ones who were barely floating by will undoubtedly be in trouble.
On the higher end of stadium acts you may be looking at 50 tractor trailers alone to support the stage and everything else that goes with it. Even amphitheater or arena acts may have 7-15. Your general indie person may have a van and trailer, if they’re really lucky it would be a bus.
If any chance of trying for national radio AirPlay unless you’re throwing close to a million in promotion you’re throwing money into the wind.
I’m not even mentioning recording costs.
Aaron Watson I know for a fact has 25 full time employees on his own label. Many on here like Isbell would probably be in the same scenario.
Generally a good percentage of these major label mainstream artists don’t make money. They just live a fairly different lifestyle. The upper echelon certainly do.
Previous to the pandemic only ones I have heard who chose to pay staff and health insurance was garth and Kenny chesney. They chose to take time off not their staff. Garth did it for two years for his first retirement. Chesney would pay his staff the year he wouldn’t tour and take off.
North Woods Country
July 9, 2020 @ 6:57 am
If this being a necessity for major artists means they’re paying their road crews as much as they’re worth, this is a good thing, in my opinion. Road crews work horrible hours, early mornings and late nights, often during the same day. Many work throughout the day on a concert day, from early AM to past midnight, with a chance to catch some Zs at odd times during the day. Their skillsets are worth a lot of money.
Pauly B
July 9, 2020 @ 10:17 am
You’re missing the point. There is was only soo much PPP money.. and these artists used their power, money and their relationship with their bank to get in front of the line. That’s bs considering I know many small businesses still never got a dime in PPP after applying the first day of of PPP applications. So yeah it’s deplorable these rich artists pulled this stunt.
Trigger
July 9, 2020 @ 10:30 am
If there was a band or artist who applied for PPP and did not receive it while these artists did, I would love to tell that story. Anyone who knows of a band like this, please tell them to reach out to me. Since the funds were basically uncapped (they did run out at one point, but the Congress re-appropriated funds), there should be no reason an eligible band or artist was not approved. Yes, big entities were able to cut in line, and that was not fair. But these big artists were just doing what they could for their labor force of roadies and side players, and at the behest of the government who did not want companies laying off employees, losing benefits, and ending up on unemployment.
Pauly B
July 9, 2020 @ 10:36 am
Fair point, trigger. I can’t wait to dive into your Lady A s*# show post
Mike W.
July 9, 2020 @ 12:49 pm
Blame the banks, not the artists. The banks were the ones that prioritized their big existing customers over “mom and pop shops”. We should have let the Wells Fargo’s of the world collapse back in 08/09, but because Democrats & Republicans get a crap ton of money from big banks, we had to bail them out and then get served a line of crap about how they are “over regulated”.
Billy Wayne Ruddick
July 9, 2020 @ 12:51 pm
There was over $100 billion in un-distributed PPP funds on June 30th when applications were cut off. I think it has re-started again as well.
Mike W.
July 9, 2020 @ 1:02 pm
Correct. The PPP loan had $130+ Billion left to loan out when it expired June 30th. On July 4th, Trump signed a law allowing the program to remain open until August 8th, 2020. Companies who already received a loan cannot apply again, but any business struggling should really take a look at the program if they haven’t already. The paperwork involved in nominal and you don’t even really have to show any sort of economic loss from COVID-19. The program being so badly bungled by the SBA killed any interest in it, but at this point it is literally a way businesses can have the Federal Government provide them money for payroll for 24 weeks and have that loan forgiven.
Pauly B
July 9, 2020 @ 10:35 am
Good blog post trigger. Perception is reality for some of these artists. I just laugh that Isbell took out a PPP loan to simply trash Trump daily. I can’t even get into this music anymore and typically don’t use a political litmus test to listen to Music
Mike W.
July 9, 2020 @ 12:47 pm
The problem with your statement is that the PPP loan program was paid for through tax dollars you and I pay. It would be hypocritical of Isbell to take the money if Trump was using his own personal wealth to stand up the PPP program, but since he didn’t, I don’t think he or any other liberal artist should be trashed for taking a PPP loan.
Pauly B
July 9, 2020 @ 1:03 pm
Mike you make a good point. Yes taxdollars that will never get paid back so we’re on the hook for it. My criticism of Isbell is what it is. You trash Trump daily and then you take a grant to essentially trash him some more even on how the PPP program was delivered which I do agree it’s complete crap. You had major media outlets with their side show companies getting PPP Loans. Tucker Carlson being one of them. Also Media Matters. Washington DC needs to be reset because we the taxpayer like in 2008 are on the hook for bailouts that we will never be able to pay down. Debt on top of debt. Pretty soon we most of our budget will paying the interest on the debt. It’s out of control. I think you,I and Isbell can all agree with that.
Pauly B
July 9, 2020 @ 1:09 pm
*Pretty soon we the taxpayer will be paying the interest on the debt as the biggest line item in the US annual budget. sorry sticky fingers
Mike W.
July 9, 2020 @ 1:13 pm
I honestly don’t think Trump had anything to do with the PPP program. Hell, the Treasury didn’t even have anything to do with coming up with the program. Economists at the Fed (including Neal Kashkari) have been planning for a similar type of program ever since 08/09 when the Federal Government badly mishandled the financial crisis and caused a protracted recession that took over a decade to rebound from.
The US could start paying down our debt tomorrow, but that would involve slashing funding to the military (for useless wars that only bring us human carnage) and taxing people like Bezos a fair tax rate. Unfortunately those two ideas are considered political suicide by DC, which is why they will never take hold.
Pauly B
July 9, 2020 @ 1:23 pm
or even Facebook. Big Tech pay no taxes. None. And D.C is fine with it as long as they are eliminating free speech they don’t agree with. Group think gone wild. Just the latest stunt with the NY Times article about the Taliban fighters being paid bounties to kill us soldiers. Taliban fighters don’t need bounties to kill us soldiers. This was a premeditated ploy to keep US soldiers in Afghanistan for another 4 more years. Kid’s of of Afghan war veterans are now fighting in Afghanistan. I digress. The PPP was a terrible idea. We should have done what Germany did and was give companies incentives to reopen instead of giving money to literally stay home. Today, the Austin Music Scene is now dead. The Nashville Music scene will die too. I’m talking the good part of the Nash music scene. Not the commercialized vomit you now see on lower Broadway.
liza
July 9, 2020 @ 8:23 pm
Trigger, what’s your source on FGL? I see that they gave each of 117 restaurant employees $1,000. Nothing about continuing pay or paying other non-restaurant staff.
Trigger
July 9, 2020 @ 9:33 pm
That’s basically what I was alluding to. I don’t have any further information on that, and don’t know if that was a one time payment or if their support has been continuous. However it is a good example of a big artist choosing to pay employees out of their own pockets. My guess is it has happened more, we just don’t hear about it.
ONYEBUCHI AUGUSTINE MADUEWESI
March 14, 2022 @ 2:35 pm
how can i get a loan for my upcoming music release.